If you feel this is a dead horse, feel free not to post. Someone asked me to begin this debate so here it goes.
At what point does someone go from being lost to saved?
In this thread I would like to determine the point of salvation. I know God can save whomever he wants but I'm hopping we can establish God's plan for how man becomes a Christian. Surely God has revealed it to us and given us examples of conversions to better understand how. Obviously there is a lot to this so it will be a tall order to get our points across in this format. I appreciate everyone's patience and understanding.
I would like start off with at what point did Jesus say someone is saved.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
The language is simple. If salvation comes after belief Jesus would have said "whoever believes is saved and then should be baptized".
When vs If
When "will be." Mark 16:16 If this is correct, it would be at that point. As far as you and I are concerned, it would be "believe and baptized." Many believe that is the 'when.' A Mid Acts Dispensationalist will see Mark as pointedly to Jews alone in text. Or perhaps another will say 'before creation, found in Christ in God.' Acts 16:31 "Believe and you will be saved."
If (under what condition?)
Perhaps it is more important to thread to discuss under what conditions one is saved rather? When could be important to the question of indicating when something happened, or better 'when that condition was met.' Certainly the Lord Jesus Christ met that condition, yet all are not saved. Something else happened and so, in time, we experienced a moment when we understood we believers were in God's hands. I've met a few people who cannot remember 'when' but can remember the conditions met: They know they'd trusted Him. They knew they'd turned to Him but it wasn't dramatic for them. Some raised in a Christian home, read scriptures and realized they'd put their trust in the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ, but perhaps were so young, couldn't remember 'when.'
For me, the question of when isn't as much of the focus as 'what' (under what condition met) that one knows they are saved. Romans 10:9,10,13. Salvation is something Jesus does (I'm a monergist, The Lord Jesus Christ saves us, Himself). I couldn't make myself saved or a Christian, as far as I know. I called, but that was the day of realization of my need. There is very little that came out of me that day that I'd be able to say I had much to do with my salvation. It was all about Jesus that day. I met Him, and was drawn to Him.
If you are speaking more to whether someone not baptized is saved or not, that's a different animal to discuss. The OP, for me, doesn't spell that out as clearly. :think:
