Mexicans are Dumb and Will Destroy America?

[Arthur Brain]

No. That's retarded.

It certainly is, as is any sort of racism. Such is the opposite of reason and intellect wouldn't you say?

You never use offensive language? You are British. Mild blasphemies and vulgarities make up like half of the day-to-day British discourse, don't they?

Why yes old chap, I am British. Like the rest of us who reside here I sound like Hugh Grant and drink tea a lot. I so hope you meant this to be ironic because otherwise your ignorance goes beyond astounding....:chuckle:

God knows, loves and judges each individual individually.

But all are equal in terms of colour and ethnicity correct?

A well placed n-word can be pretty funny. I'll give you an example:

I return to my apartment a while back and there, in the courtyard, are 3-4 black people and a white guy who clearly don't belong there. One of my neighbors promptly chases them off.

My roommate (a northern white guy who's pretty much never encountered racism until he moved to the South for his education) comes in, and I excitedly say: "There were [n-word here]'s at the apartment earlier!"

He looks at me and busts out laughing because I just used a racist word. He was like: "[My name here]...you shouldn't use that kind of language!" Or something like that.

He then quickly says: "How many were there? They weren't inside of the apartment, were they?" Or something like that.

I then bust out laughing because my non-racist roommate unwittingly sounded like he just asked me how many [n-word here] were at the apartment earlier, and he seemed to be very concerned to make sure that there were none of them in the apartment.

He sees me bust out laughing and I explain what he basically had just said. The look on his face...

Man, that was funny. :rotfl:

That's just sad.

lain:

 

[Ktoyou]

Traditio, NO MORE!

You are causing those who want to like you, to change their minds. You are harming yourself. You know I am right in this, I regret not telling you sooner, sorry abut that.
Kat

 

[Traditio]

It certainly is, as is any sort of racism. Such is the opposite of reason and intellect wouldn't you say?

This is part of the reason why I've made these recent posts. In another thread, someone accused racists of having low IQs. I don't have a low IQ, and I consider myself a racist, at least to some degree.

The general presupposition is that all racists have bizarre, irrational beliefs and that racism stems from ignorance.

False. As a matter of fact, non-racists tend to be the more ignorant. My non-racist yankee roommate of the previous year comes from a place where there are very few black people (or non-whites in general). It's very easy to think that racism is a matter of cultural ignorance or that it's completely irrational if you come from a place of relative cultural homogeneity and you don't have to deal with people of other cultures/ethnicities.

Racism comes in a variety of forms. Some are irrational and demonstrably false. Some are not. Mine is not.

I come from a place where there are lots of black people. I've had to deal with these people. I go to school in a place where there are lots of Mexicans, hispanics and Asians. I've had to deal with these people.

There's nothing irrational about my racism. I don't posit any genetic/intrinsic inferiority of other races. No. It's entirely practical/experiential. As a matter of fact, having dealt with other races, I am consistently confronted with the obvious fact that they are different (in a variety of ways...culturally, for one), and I strongly dislike these differences (for example, the fact that black people apparently don't know how to talk to each other in public without shouting at each other from a mile away; for example, the fact that young hispanics apparently love to drink and play excessively loud music at odd hours of the night).

This is why I said what I did in the other thread. It's not the case that the more I know, the less racist I become. The more I have to confront people of other races, the more these differences stand out, and the more problematic they become for me. I've had to live with people of other races. My living situation for my first year of grad school was terrible. I actually had to share an apartment with non-whites (they were generally hispanics; one was part Italian...I've never really held biases against Italians before...until I had to live with someone who was part Italian; now I have an opinion about Italians, and it isn't a good one).

I have come to the conclusion that young hispanics are crazy.

It's easy for a northerner or someone from Europe to read something like this and shake your head at me and judge me. That's because you haven't had to come into close encounter with these other cultures/races, and you haven't had to face these various cultural/ethnic conflicts.

Fact is, racism isn't most prominent where there is racial/cultural homogeneity. Racism pops up where there is racial/cultural heterogenity. Do you know why so many Southern whites are racists? Because there's so many black people, and they tend to get on our nerves.

It's not something that's unique to me. So far as I can see, it's pretty much common in my culture: I was at a party with a bunch of relatives, and one of my relatives (who teaches high school, I think) asked me how I like the place where I go to school. I promptly respond that there are too many Mexicans. He promptly responds that he can deal with Mexicans...it's those [n-word]'s that he can't stand (not surprising; there likely are far more black people than Mexicans where he lives and teaches).

You'll shake your head in judgment. You'll get angry.

Ok. Then you take his job. You take over a similar role. You live in the area where he has to live. You deal with the people that he has to deal with. And let's see if you don't start forming similar prejudices.

 

[Traditio]

To quote a friend of mine from California: "Y'know...I always want to argue against your racist views, against your stereotypes of people. But I find that they're always accurate." This may be a paraphrase, but it's pretty close.

 

[xAvarice]

To quote a friend of mine from California: "Y'know...I always want to argue against your racist views, against your stereotypes of people. But I find that they're always accurate." This may be a paraphrase, but it's pretty close.

A racist having racist friends? Shocker.

 

[Traditio]

A racist having racist friends? Shocker.

I don't think that he's a racist. He's from California. He might be now. I don't think he was when I met him, though.

 

[xAvarice]

It's easy for a northerner or someone from Europe to read something like this and shake your head at me and judge me. That's because you haven't had to come into close encounter with these other cultures/races, and you haven't had to face these various cultural/ethnic conflicts.

Are you dumb?

 

[Traditio]

Are you dumb?

Arthur Brain is British. Chances are, there's not a whole lot of Mexicans and/or African Americans there. It is interesting to note that there has been a fairly high degree of racism in Europe as of late, though, in particular, against Arabs. In Greece, for example, there's been a rise in nationalist sentiments.

Can you guess why?

 

[Traditio]

In fact, the more I think about it, the more racism makes sense and the more bizarre multiculturalism seems. A culture is that according to which we learn how to interact and live. Different cultures present us with different (and often opposed ways) ways of life.

When conflicting cultures come into contact, there are four options:

1. One culture replaces the other (many blacks "act white"; but, more generally, hispanics and white people tend to get subsumed into the black culture...as the saying goes, "it's not OK to be white any more").

2. The cultures naturally segregate themselves.

3. A new culture gets generated.

4. There's conflict.

True multicultural exchange is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Personal exchanges, day-to-day interactions, etc. generally presuppose the norms which are given to us by a culture.

 

[bybee]

In fact, the more I think about it, the more racism makes sense and the more bizarre multiculturalism seems. A culture is that according to which we learn how to interact and live. Different cultures present us with different (and often opposed ways) ways of life.

When conflicting cultures come into contact, there are three options:

1. One culture replaces the other (many blacks "act white"; but, more generally, hispanics and white people tend to get subsumed into the black culture...as the saying goes, "it's not OK to be white any more").

2. The cultures naturally segregate themselves.

3. A new culture gets generated.

4. There's conflict.

True multicultural exchange is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Personal exchanges, day-to-day interactions, etc. generally presuppose the norms which are given to us by a culture.

Have you read any of John Donne's poetry?
"No man is an Island...."

 

[Traditio]

Have you read any of John Donne's poetry?

No.

"No man is an Island...."

This is true, but I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about cultures.

Think about this:

A culture is a way of life. Cultures often are different or even opposed.

Does it really make sense to expect people from conflicting cultures (that is, people who live in conflicting ways) to live together in harmony, while at the same time maintaining their cultural identity?

If that's not a contradiction, it's pretty close.

 

[Arthur Brain]

This is part of the reason why I've made these recent posts. In another thread, someone accused racists of having low IQs. I don't have a low IQ, and I consider myself a racist, at least to some degree.

Drake Shelton would probably say the same. lain:

The general presupposition is that all racists have bizarre, irrational beliefs and that racism stems from ignorance.

Because they usually do.

False. As a matter of fact, non-racists tend to be the more ignorant. My non-racist yankee roommate of the previous year comes from a place where there are very few black people (or non-whites in general). It's very easy to think that racism is a matter of cultural ignorance or that it's completely irrational if you come from a place of relative cultural homogeneity and you don't have to deal with people of other cultures/ethnicities.

You're less likely to be ignorant if you're a racist? Er, absolute crap Trad. If you're leveling such an accusation at me then you're way off the mark. I spent years living in one of he most multicultural and ethnically diverse cities in Britain and dealt, lived among and spent time with people of all sorts of cultural heritages. I didn't have a problem with it all, in fact I enjoyed living in such a place.

Racism comes in a variety of forms. Some are irrational and demonstrably false. Some are not. Mine is not.

Well, yes it is. You're trying to justify it but you're failing.

I come from a place where there are lots of black people. I've had to deal with these people. I go to school in a place where there are lots of Mexicans, hispanics and Asians. I've had to deal with these people.

So have I as I mentioned above, yet I had no problem with it.

There's nothing irrational about my racism. I don't posit any genetic/intrinsic inferiority of other races. No. It's entirely practical/experiential. As a matter of fact, having dealt with other races, I am consistently confronted with the obvious fact that they are different (in a variety of ways...culturally, for one), and I strongly dislike these differences (for example, the fact that black people apparently don't know how to talk to each other in public without shouting at each other from a mile away; for example, the fact that young hispanics apparently love to drink and play excessively loud music at odd hours of the night).

For sure there's cultural differences, that's part of what makes living in a culturally diverse city so interesting. However, your examples of 'difference' are just laughable. Black people shout no more than whites, and if you think excessive drinking and playing music into the small hours is somehow indigenous to the Hispanic culture you're off your nut. You think young whites don't do that?!

This is why I said what I did in the other thread. It's not the case that the more I know, the less racist I become. The more I have to confront people of other races, the more these differences stand out, and the more problematic they become for me. I've had to live with people of other races. My living situation for my first year of grad school was terrible. I actually had to share an apartment with non-whites (they were generally hispanics; one was part Italian...I've never really held biases against Italians before...until I had to live with someone who was part Italian; now I have an opinion about Italians, and it isn't a good one).

Then your opinion and biases about Italian's - based simply on living with one for a time - is irrational. It would be just as irrational for an Italian to base a whole set of biases on whites simply for living with you and not liking you very much.

I have come to the conclusion that young hispanics are crazy.

No more crazy than young whites.

It's easy for a northerner or someone from Europe to read something like this and shake your head at me and judge me. That's because you haven't had to come into close encounter with these other cultures/races, and you haven't had to face these various cultural/ethnic conflicts.

This is where your ignorance regarding Britain and Europe is downright laughable. You really have some completely bizarre idea regarding them both. You think it's only America that has a broad range of racial and cultural diversity? You're so way off the mark on that it's not actually funny...and as you're now aware I have lived among such varying cultures and races so your accusations about ignorance simply don't work. All you've managed to do is highlight your own Trad.

Fact is, racism isn't most prominent where there is racial/cultural homogeneity. Racism pops up where there is racial/cultural heterogenity. Do you know why so many Southern whites are racists? Because there's so many black people, and they tend to get on our nerves.

Well, it's because they're prejudiced and irrational.

It's not something that's unique to me. So far as I can see, it's pretty much common in my culture: I was at a party with a bunch of relatives, and one of my relatives (who teaches high school, I think) asked me how I like the place where I go to school. I promptly respond that there are too many Mexicans. He promptly responds that he can deal with Mexicans...it's those [n-word]'s that he can't stand (not surprising; there likely are far more black people than Mexicans where he lives and teaches).

You'll shake your head in judgment. You'll get angry.

Ok. Then you take his job. You take over a similar role. You live in the area where he has to live. You deal with the people that he has to deal with. And let's see if you don't start forming similar prejudices.

Nobody said that racism was unique to you Trad. unfortunately prejudice extends way beyond you alone. I wouldn't take his job because I'm not skilled as a teacher, but once again I've lived and worked with people from all sorts of race and culture, and yet haven't formed any prejudices as a result.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Arthur Brain is British. Chances are, there's not a whole lot of Mexicans and/or African Americans there. It is interesting to note that there has been a fairly high degree of racism in Europe as of late, though, in particular, against Arabs. In Greece, for example, there's been a rise in nationalist sentiments.

Can you guess why?

Trad, you really are completely and utterly clueless where it comes to Britain. You really should drop this part right now because your ignorance here is making you look like a total idiot.

 

[Arthur Brain]

In fact, the more I think about it, the more racism makes sense and the more bizarre multiculturalism seems. A culture is that according to which we learn how to interact and live. Different cultures present us with different (and often opposed ways) ways of life.

When conflicting cultures come into contact, there are four options:

1. One culture replaces the other (many blacks "act white"; but, more generally, hispanics and white people tend to get subsumed into the black culture...as the saying goes, "it's not OK to be white any more").

2. The cultures naturally segregate themselves.

3. A new culture gets generated.

4. There's conflict.

True multicultural exchange is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Personal exchanges, day-to-day interactions, etc. generally presuppose the norms which are given to us by a culture.

In that case you're simply trying to justify your racism and once again through ignorance. Do you think the 'white culture' hasn't taken and embraced elements from different cultural heritages through the ages? You mistake 'difference' for 'conflict'.

 

[annabenedetti]

In fact, the more I think about it, the more racism makes sense and the more bizarre multiculturalism seems. A culture is that according to which we learn how to interact and live. Different cultures present us with different (and often opposed ways) ways of life.

When conflicting cultures come into contact, there are four options:

1. One culture replaces the other (many blacks "act white"; but, more generally, hispanics and white people tend to get subsumed into the black culture...as the saying goes, "it's not OK to be white any more").

2. The cultures naturally segregate themselves.

3. A new culture gets generated.

4. There's conflict.

True multicultural exchange is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Personal exchanges, day-to-day interactions, etc. generally presuppose the norms which are given to us by a culture.

You know what, Trad? I've been subjected to bigotry because of my religion, by supposed 'Christians.' I've been the subject of vicious, in-my-face bigotry by someone who thought I was in an inter-racial relationship, because I was at the store with my sons and their friends who were black and the white supremacist assumed they were all my kids. That was an eye-opening experience for me and for my children. Honestly, I don't know what it was like for their friends, I tried to leave the door open for them to talk about it, but they didn't.

Your views tell me that racism is indeed alive and well in this country in a way I thought long on its way out. How naive of me. But I have to thank you, because if my anger at what you have to say is only a millionth of the anger felt by those who because of the color or their skin have been oppressed by your kind of bigotry all their lives and felt its multi-generational pressure handed down to them by generations past, it will have been a good experience for me.

"Racism makes sense"? If that's true, you haven't really changed your views about Hitler at all - you're fooling only yourself.

 

[annabenedetti]

Oh, and one other thing:

Hispanic High School Graduates Pass Whites in Rate of College Enrollment

Another factor, however, could be the importance that Latino families place on a college education. According to a 2009 Pew Hispanic Center survey, 88% of Latinos ages 16 and older agreed that a college degree is necessary to get ahead in life today (Pew Hispanic Center, 2009). By contrast, a separate 2009 survey of all Americans ages 16 and older found that fewer (74%) said the same (Pew Research Social & Demographic Trends, 2009).​

 

[bybee]

No.



This is true, but I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about cultures.

Think about this:

A culture is a way of life. Cultures often are different or even opposed.

Does it really make sense to expect people from conflicting cultures (that is, people who live in conflicting ways) to live together in harmony, while at the same time maintaining their cultural identity?

If that's not a contradiction, it's pretty close.

We each live in our own homes. Every man/woman is a king/queen in his/her own castle.
We all drive on the right side of the road and we stop on red, go on green. We choose our own clothing and our own food. We choose our own entertainment.
We choose our friends.
No need to have more than cursory interactions with those who differ from us.
Of course if, let us say, a person like you chooses to shoot his mouth off in public spewing racist supremacy and derogatory comments based on ethnicity, whyyyyyyyy, you never know what might happen.:box:

 

[bybee]

No.



This is true, but I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about cultures.

Think about this:

A culture is a way of life. Cultures often are different or even opposed.

Does it really make sense to expect people from conflicting cultures (that is, people who live in conflicting ways) to live together in harmony, while at the same time maintaining their cultural identity?

If that's not a contradiction, it's pretty close.

You haven't read Donne? You must be an ignoramus! Whatever have you been doing all these years in college? Basket weaving?

 

[Spitfire]

I really haven't seen how I would be able to contribute much to this, but, just in case it hasn't occurred to you yet, Traditio, why not have a look again at what you were originally talking about and ask yourself if this is any different than what people in the USA were saying about Catholic immigrants from Ireland and Italy 100-150 years ago? That it would destroy America if all these dumb, uneducated people from another culture moved in and took over? Would the USA really have been better off without them?

 

[TomO]

That's because you're an extraordinarily ego-centric and pompous person with superiority issues, and even more than most people, the less you feel in control, the more you freak out.

I understand that you have asperger's, so I try to always consider that.

But I hope a huge, multi-generational family of Mexicans who barely speak English move in all around you, taking up all of the houses on your block. Little Mexican kids playing hopscotch in the street screaming out rhymes in Spanish, Mexican music playing on their stereos, meats you're not familiar with sizzling on their grills filling the neighborhood with smells you've never smelled, and most of all, tons of old Mexican folks who walk too slowly in front of you on the sidewalk.

And I hope they also buy your corner store, and fill it up with non-English signs and foods you're completely unfamiliar with.

And I hope they're all happy, all the time, and you have to see their huge smiles, and they all wave and say ¡Hola amigo! to you every time they see you.

:rotfl: I think zoo said this with a straight face. I see his point, but does he see how funny this is? Are you laughing, it not, that is odd. :rotfl::wave2:

Nothing funny about the food though...It's totally awesome. I never really knew how to Bar-B-Que until I went to some Mexican family get togethers. :TomO:


...the stores are cool also. Lots of good stuff and usually at a much better price than the big chain stores. :think: