Mexicans are Dumb and Will Destroy America?

[zippy2006]

I believe Zippy may be experiencing a temporary lapse of reason.
There is no defense for racists statements.

Bybee, when you beg the question, fail to address the arguments, and muse that I must be experiencing a temporary lapse of reason, you come across as shockingly condescending.

I believe that zip believes he's doing a good. He's the possessor of a keen intelligence and an admirable zeal. He's also young and carries the pitfalls that go with that...so don't be too hard on him. His intentions are admirable, even if he isn't always tactful or consistent in approach or even right in the broader perspective/scheme of things. He'll shake out just fine, I suspect.

Supra, though I realize I left one of your posts unanswered. Perhaps I will have time to come back to it later.

If you two actually wish to console each other and explain how you must be right and I must be wrong and it must be due to some psychological insufficiency on my part, you should do it in private in order to avoid, or at least mitigate, the sin you are approaching. I don't think it's any accident that you left these words in my earshot.

:e4e:

 

[The Berean]

Hey, look what I found!

http://news.yahoo.com/latinos-head-college-record-rate-now-par-white-173915053.html

 

[mighty_duck]

That is terrible news, Berean. Now that Mexicans are no longer dumb and destroying America, we need to find a new minority to blame our problems on. We haven't had a scapegoat this good since the Irish.

OTOH, this is reality television gold. "America's next top patsy" anyone?

 

[Town Heretic]

...Supra, though I realize I left one of your posts unanswered. Perhaps I will have time to come back to it later.

I hadn't noticed, but then I'm busy these days. Do or don't as it suits you and I'll do my best to remember what we were talking about and answer when I can.

If you two actually wish to console each other and explain how you must be right and I must be wrong

This is more about the way you are, about your blindness to your own approach, I think. You're a good kid, but you're a kid. You have minimal life experience and the beginnings of a good education. With your gifts that's a real leg up in certain circles and a beginning in others....and there's no way to tell you that and not offend you even when the point isn't to, zip.

and it must be due to some psychological insufficiency on my part,

Partly biological, mostly experiential. You're not twenty five yet, are you? You're doing about as I'd expect, given. And that's not bad.

you should do it in private in order to avoid, or at least mitigate, the sin you are approaching.

I don't think it's any accident that you left these words in my earshot.

Oh, I wouldn't read much into it. Two adults talking about a fledgling they like who is, nevertheless, restrained by limitations that are inevitable. Sure we know you'll overhear us. It isn't our fault you only listened to part of it.

 

[PyramidHead]

Right: Trad must be a racist because he did racist things in the past. Forget the fact that he publicly disowned those actions. This is another bad argument. All of the arguments you've given are unsound, and I've explained why.

The fact that none of your points show Trad to be a (strong) racist is not a coincidence. He isn't. Nothing you've presented demonstrates the contrary, and I'd advise you to stop assuming the worst on the part of Trad even when the reasons you once believed substantiated such a belief are shown to be incorrect.

I'd advise all of you to stop assuming the worst. :sigh:

Brah did you read the thread? Using the n-word on a regular basis is pretty much the baseline for judging someone as a racist.

 

[bybee]

Bybee, when you beg the question, fail to address the arguments, and muse that I must be experiencing a temporary lapse of reason, you come across as shockingly condescending.



Supra, though I realize I left one of your posts unanswered. Perhaps I will have time to come back to it later.

If you two actually wish to console each other and explain how you must be right and I must be wrong and it must be due to some psychological insufficiency on my part, you should do it in private in order to avoid, or at least mitigate, the sin you are approaching. I don't think it's any accident that you left these words in my earshot.

:e4e:

It was an attempt at a gentle bit of humor. If I have offended you I am truly sorry. That is not nor shall it ever be my intent regarding you. You are better educated and more knowledgeable than I in philosophy and theology and who knows what else. But, my dear Zippy, I am old! I have lived long and I care a great deal about other people. It may well be that I have acquired some wisdom that is yet to come your way?
I have attempted to help Trad see that he, as I see it, is jousting with a windmill on this issue. That he cares about this professors freedom to choose his own thesis subject is good. The fact that others find the subject unpleasant is also a freedom.
We may be speaking past each other. I don't know. But I value your good will and your friendship.
I shall speak no more of this.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Right: Trad must be a racist because he did racist things in the past. Forget the fact that he publicly disowned those actions. This is another bad argument. All of the arguments you've given are unsound, and I've explained why.

The fact that none of your points show Trad to be a (strong) racist is not a coincidence. He isn't. Nothing you've presented demonstrates the contrary, and I'd advise you to stop assuming the worst on the part of Trad even when the reasons you once believed substantiated such a belief are shown to be incorrect.

I'd advise all of you to stop assuming the worst. :sigh:

Uh, Zippy, he thinks it's funny to use the 'n' word. He's "argued" as to how it's more *rational* to be a racist than not. He thinks a multicultural society equates to conflict. He's shown laughable ignorance and presumptive arrogance in regards to those who object to his 'position'. Heck, he seems to think Britain is a nation of whites instead of the multicultural country it happens to be. He presumed I'd never lived among such and that my attitude would change if I'd "dealt" with other cultures as he had. He makes excuses for his attitude and fails to address any counter when his ignorance is shown for what it is. He may not be shouting 'Seig Heil' but "watered down" racism doesn't cut any ice....

 

[annabenedetti]

you should do it in private in order to avoid, or at least mitigate, the sin you are approaching. I don't think it's any accident that you left these words in my earshot.

But I thought you said this thread wasn't public.

 

[zippy2006]

It was an attempt at a gentle bit of humor. If I have offended you I am truly sorry. That is not nor shall it ever be my intent regarding you. You are better educated and more knowledgeable than I in philosophy and theology and who knows what else. But, my dear Zippy, I am old! I have lived long and I care a great deal about other people. It may well be that I have acquired some wisdom that is yet to come your way?
I have attempted to help Trad see that he, as I see it, is jousting with a windmill on this issue. That he cares about this professors freedom to choose his own thesis subject is good. The fact that others find the subject unpleasant is also a freedom.
We may be speaking past each other. I don't know. But I value your good will and your friendship.
I shall speak no more of this.

Thank you bybee. I know you didn't mean anything by it, but did not know you meant it as humor. It seems to me that the problem in this case is that you are too old to understand what Trad is describing, because you haven't seen it. I have seen it, as I explained earlier, and I know exactly what he is talking about. I realize it can be easily misunderstood, but that is why I took so much time explaining and arguing for what is actually happening.

I hadn't noticed, but then I'm busy these days. Do or don't as it suits you and I'll do my best to remember what we were talking about and answer when I can.


This is more about the way you are, about your blindness to your own approach, I think. You're a good kid, but you're a kid. You have minimal life experience and the beginnings of a good education. With your gifts that's a real leg up in certain circles and a beginning in others....and there's no way to tell you that and not offend you even when the point isn't to, zip.


Partly biological, mostly experiential. You're not twenty five yet, are you? You're doing about as I'd expect, given. And that's not bad.





Oh, I wouldn't read much into it. Two adults talking about a fledgling they like who is, nevertheless, restrained by limitations that are inevitable. Sure we know you'll overhear us. It isn't our fault you only listened to part of it.

This is absurd my friend. Your condescension is truly amazing, and your childishness never fails to amaze. If I had more respect for you this would really have ended that.

:e4e:

 

[Granite]

Thank you bybee. I know you didn't mean anything by it, but did not know you meant it as humor. It seems to me that the problem in this case is that you are too old to understand what Trad is describing, because you haven't seen it. I have seen it, as I explained earlier, and I know exactly what he is talking about. I realize it can be easily misunderstood, but that is why I took so much time explaining and arguing for what is actually happening.



This is absurd my friend. Your condescension is truly amazing, and your childishness never fails to amaze. If I had more respect for you this would really have ended that.

:e4e:

You're going out of your way to defend Trad, and you think TH is childish.:rotfl:

Thanks, that just made my day.

 

[PyramidHead]

Thank you bybee. I know you didn't mean anything by it, but did not know you meant it as humor. It seems to me that the problem in this case is that you are too old to understand what Trad is describing, because you haven't seen it. I have seen it, as I explained earlier, and I know exactly what he is talking about. I realize it can be easily misunderstood, but that is why I took so much time explaining and arguing for what is actually happening.



This is absurd my friend. Your condescension is truly amazing, and your childishness never fails to amaze. If I had more respect for you this would really have ended that. If you need to keep defending your own pride by claiming that I am childish, blind, wrong, and restrained, all with an air of superiority and even pedagogy, go ahead, I'm used to it.

:e4e:

zippy how is casual use of racial slurs not racist? Please explain this to me

 

[zippy2006]

zippy how is casual use of racial slurs not racist? Please explain this to me

I'm sort of tired of explaining it to be honest. You should read my last few posts to zoo and my earlier ones to Anna or TH.

The object of Trad's act is shock value. The fact that he is using the n-word is accidental to our culture and history. Any shocking word would do, the n-word just happens to top that chart. As I mentioned to Granite earlier, this is part of American humor nowadays. Trad's use is not hateful or racist in the way the true racist use of the word is.

If you want a more philosophically rigorous answer to your question, you should read Hilary Putnam on what he calls "Magical theories of reference."

 

[Granite]

I'm sort of tired of explaining it to be honest. You should read my last few posts to zoo and my earlier ones to Anna or TH.

The object of Trad's act is shock value. The fact that he is using the n-word is accidental to our culture and history. Any shocking word would do, the n-word just happens to top that chart. As I mentioned to Granite earlier, this is part of American humor nowadays. Trad's use is not hateful or racist in the way the true racist use of the word is.

...and as I said in the post you completely ignored, its shock value among black performers is debated and controversial. Its use among white entertainers is considered almost universally beyond the pale. The casual, unremarkable, universal use of this word in American comedy is a fantasy of yours. It is decidedly not merely a "part of American humor." It is used among a minority, many of whom are uncomfortable with its use and don't support its continued use. So spare us this nonsense that Trad's just trying to give us all a good chuckle. It's a tiresome, disingenuous crock.

And most importantly, zip, it isn't funny.

 

[bybee]

I'm sort of tired of explaining it to be honest. You should read my last few posts to zoo and my earlier ones to Anna or TH.

The object of Trad's act is shock value. The fact that he is using the n-word is accidental to our culture and history. Any shocking word would do, the n-word just happens to top that chart. As I mentioned to Granite earlier, this is part of American humor nowadays. Trad's use is not hateful or racist in the way the true racist use of the word is.

Why would a well intended person take a chance using a contemptible and demeaning word for any purpose?
In the interest of clarity of purpose I suggest there may be a better way.
And by the way, unless you have been the recipient of a racial slur you have no idea of the pain and or rage it may inspire.

 

[zippy2006]

Why would a well intended person take a chance using a contemptible and demeaning word for any purpose?

Because of poor judgment and a mistake? Trad already admitted it is a sin, and I agreed with him ages ago.

In the interest of clarity of purpose I suggest there may be a better way.

That's perfectly true.

And by the way, unless you have been the recipient of a racial slur you have no idea of the pain and or rage it may inspire.

Which is why Trad never even uses such words in public, much less in a hateful way.

 

[bybee]

Because of poor judgment and a mistake? Trad already admitted it is a sin, and I agreed with him ages ago.



That's perfectly true.



Which is why Trad never even uses such words in public, much less in a hateful way.

I like Trad. That is why I have kept at this for so long. He has so much promise and he has grown immensely since he started posting on TOL.
I wish him well.

 

[PyramidHead]

I'm sort of tired of explaining it to be honest. You should read my last few posts to zoo and my earlier ones to Anna or TH.

The object of Trad's act is shock value. The fact that he is using the n-word is accidental to our culture and history. Any shocking word would do, the n-word just happens to top that chart. As I mentioned to Granite earlier, this is part of American humor nowadays. Trad's use is not hateful or racist in the way the true racist use of the word is.

If you want a more philosophically rigorous answer to your question, you should read Hilary Putnam on what he calls "Magical theories of reference."

He also admits he doesn't like to spend time around them. It's unacceptable. And then trad whines about oh boo hoo, what if somebody here's me say the n-word and something bad happens to me. He's like a black hole with his self-centeredness, and I don't know why you're sticking up for it. going around using racial slurs isn't funny unless you're racist. He likes being around white people more than any other people, frequently uses the n-word, I mean how can you pass that off as "oh he's just being funny"

And I think this thread bashing is good for him, before he comes around a place like I'm at and says that, and loses more than a job if someone hears him

 

[zippy2006]

He also admits he doesn't like to spend time around them.

He gave a reason why: cultural practices he dislikes. He also gave examples of black people who do not exhibit such cultural characteristics, thus demonstrating that he does not somehow believe that he would not like spending time with a black person merely because of the color of their skin.

And then trad whines about oh boo hoo, what if somebody here's me say the n-word and something bad happens to me. He's like a black hole with his self-centeredness, and I don't know why you're sticking up for it.

Then call him self-centered, don't call him a racist.

going around using racial slurs isn't funny unless you're racist.

Unless you think black people are racist I don't think you're getting very far with that assertion.

He likes being around white people more than any other people, frequently uses the n-word, I mean how can you pass that off as "oh he's just being funny"

He is attempting to shock his friends and create humor.

And I think this thread bashing is good for him, before he comes around a place like I'm at and says that, and loses more than a job if someone hears him

Could be. I don't like false witness.

 

[PyramidHead]

Unless you think black people are racist I don't think you're getting very far with that assertion.

that's not the same
I don't necessarily agree with it. But let you in on a little something. I have some black ghetto friends, and they all call me n---a. that's not the same, even remotely, to Trad calling them n----r behind their backs. That's using a degrading term to classify people by the color of their skin. That's racist, whether you happen to find it hilarious or not

 

[Granite]

I question the taste, judgment, and character of any white person who attempts to justify their use of this word.