Lifting thread

[Jefferson]

I'm pure carnivore. As close to zero carbs as I can get.

 

[Idolater]

I'm pure carnivore. As close to zero carbs as I can get.

I've never lifted in ketosis. I depend upon eating starches with my protein to recover.

I tried no carb for a while, long time ago, but it was during a non-lifting period in my life. Loved egg and tuna and chicken salad (with green onions, dill pickles, celery, sometimes mustard, salt and pepper), bacon and ground beef by the pound basically, I don't remember what else, everything was good, but it's not in my long-term plan at the moment.

 

[Jefferson]

Do you ever fast?

 

[Idolater]

Do you ever fast?

Not beyond just fasting leading up to every Mass. I fasted four days straight a few years ago to see how it affected my dopamine system. I tried one meal a day for a while too. I never tried fasting one day per week.

 

[Jefferson]

Not beyond just fasting leading up to every Mass. I fasted four days straight a few years ago to see how it affected my dopamine system. I tried one meal a day for a while too. I never tried fasting one day per week.

I do 24 hours every 3 to 4 days.

 

[Idolater]

I do 24 hours every 3 to 4 days.

Well if you wanted to lift twice a week then I'd fast the days before lifting, eat plenty of protein all the other days. And if you lift once a week but want to fast twice a week, make one of them the day before you lift. It is better to prepare to recover well, than to prepare to lift more weight on your workout day, so that is why I'm saying, fast the day before your lifting day. No matter how strong you are the day after fasting, you can eat right in the morning, and maybe time your workout to be a couple hours after eating (you're basically no carb so I'm not sure how you're getting your muscles glycogen, if it's made from aminos or from fats, but whatever it is I think a couple hours will be enough that your blood should have more fuel in it by then to get an optimal lifting workout given that you're coming off a fast). Or, if you're not going to be lifting, I'm curious anyway, why do you fast twice a week? Health? Discipline? Are you competing with anyone? Is it for spiritual purpose?

 

[Jefferson]

I'm curious anyway, why do you fast twice a week? Health? Discipline? Are you competing with anyone? Is it for spiritual purpose?

Overall health, fewer insulin spikes. I had a stroke last year. I'm fine except I'm blind in my right eye. It really woke me up regarding how important it is to have a normal blood pressure. I never thought it really mattered that much. It's not called the silent killer for nothing.

 

[Idolater]

Overall health, fewer insulin spikes. I had a stroke last year. I'm fine except I'm blind in my right eye. It really woke me up regarding how important it is to have a normal blood pressure. I never thought it really mattered that much. It's not called the silent killer for nothing.

Yikes, wow.

 

[Idolater]

LIFTING

What's lifting? Lifting is when you pick up your 'tablet' off your desk. What I mean is, anything more than 'body weight' exercise is lifting.

 

[Idolater]

BODY WEIGHT EXERCISE

Walking, running, squats, pushups, pullups, chinups, all the exercises you do without adding any weight (beyond shoes and clothing) are body weight exercises.

Adding any weight, even just your 'tablet' lifting it up off your desk and carrying it to your car, is lifting. Groceries, jugs of milk or water, books. A gallon of water or milk weighs over eight LBS! If you have one jug in each hand, you can do 16 LB deadlifts.

I recommend holding them 'backward' if you do this. It's easier on your grip.

 

[Jefferson]

Walking is awesome for you.

Was reading up on Nicola Tesla last night and came upon, "For exercise, Tesla walked between 8 and 10 miles (13 and 16 km) per day. He curled his toes one hundred times for each foot every night, saying that it stimulated his brain cells."

Don't know about the toes thing but who am I to debate Tesla on physics.

 

[Idolater]

290 LBS
5
5
4 (at least 1 'rir' (pronounced R-IN-R))

300 LBS
4 (0 rir /rnr)

That's it; that's the workout. I could only do four reps at 300 LBS, so I stopped.

The weight that you can only do four times in a row (to 0 rnr = none left), when you're at your strongest (right before your first set) is the literally heaviest weight you want to work out with for strength training. Beyond this weight you're just looking for personal records and lifting competitions, which is categorically distinct from strength training. That set of four I did there, was the most strength training I could do yesterday. If I had done 310 LBS I wouldn't have been able to do four reps and I wouldn't have gotten as strong as a result, compared to what I did do, which was 300 LBS for four reps. If I had done another set then maybe I could have gotten a little more benefit, but I would have had to have stopped at like 2 rnr, so it might have been just doing one more rep for a total of five reps for the whole workout, instead what I did which was four reps for the whole workout.

The first set for me in this program is always actually AMRAP, or five, whichever comes first.

AMRAP means As Many Reps As Possible.

It means go to 0 rnr ( = none left).

AMRAP with safety is more correct though, AMRAPS or AMRASP, as many reps as safely possible. Injuries are not allowed! That's what safe means, no injuries.

Stronger this week. Banana.

For this week, I don't know if I got stronger or not, it's not clear. It's always clear when you can do more weight for more reps, but when you move up in weight and can't do the same reps, it doesn't mean weaker, it doesn't mean same strength, it doesn't mean stronger, it's just unclear, not until you get a lot more data about how your own body's strength 'works', for lack of a better word, in this range of weight. Maybe you're at a point where just a little more weight becomes much more difficult for you? Or maybe you lost strength? Or maybe this is exactly what I would have done last week with 300 LBS instead of 290 LBS. Who knows. Doesn't matter!

Plan next week: 300 LBS.

Plan next week: 270 LBS.

In this program, I've reached a milestone or a feedback control switch----I didn't complete even a single five-rep set; time to "de load". Take some weight off, and start over. At 270 LBS do one set of five or AMRAP (whichever comes first, which will likely be five reps unless something unexpected happens to me during the week that impinges my strength significantly). And then once I clear one five-rep set, take a breather, and attempt another. Lather, rinse and repeat until you can't do anymore five-rep sets. I expect I'll do at least three full five-rep sets next week at 270 LBS, but we'll see.

In this program beyond the first set, none of the others are AMRAP. Once you get to where you can only do two more reps (as far as you can tell), then you stop there, whether that's at one, two, three or four. If you make it to five and you figure you can still do at least 1-2 reps ( = 1-2 rnr), then you take a breather and attempt another five-rep set, although anticipating, if you just barely squeezed out this one, that you're probably only going to get to three or four reps in the next set tops.

PROTEIN
In all things moderation . . . except on lifting day. On lifting day I try to eat extra protein all day from just before lifting til I go to bed at night.

I figure I consumed at least 1g of complete protein per LB of body weight yesterday (day of workout). Today woke up quite sore (good muscle soreness, not injury soreness), ate a breakfast with added meat, will continue to supplement protein today, using soreness as a trigger. Algorithm: More sore, more protein. Will continue this tomorrow as needed, don't expect much soreness the day after tomorrow though, based on history.

CARBS STARCH FUEL
I try to consume a good slug of starchy carbs with protein when supplementing protein. I'm no expert but I loosely aim for equal parts protein and starch. When I miss, it's that I don't eat enough starch. First priority is to give my body the protein it needs to recover, but it also needs fuel to do this, which is what the starch is for. But if you're going to miss, miss on starch. There's nothing your body can do without extra protein. The only other source of protein available if you don't eat it, is your muscles. And that's counterproductive to have your body digest your own muscles in order to recover your own muscles. But your body can if it has to turn protein into carbs. It's very inefficient, but it's at least possible.

Protein should be priced by the gram. Whey should be economical. I can get whey for about 0.03 USD or three cents per gram. That's cheap, but you can get raw chicken and pork and beef for OK prices too. Of course legumes are cheap, but remember to eat them with plenty of starches so you get all the "essential" amino acids, plus check their price per gram of protein. A can of light tuna costs 1.00 USD, it has 20 grams of complete protein, so that's 0.05 USD, or five cents per gram of protein for light tuna. That's not bad either.

ESSENTIAL AMINO ACID
All meat and fish protein is complete, meaning all essential amino acids are in it. Essential amino acids are the ones your body can't make from other amino acids. So with meat and fish (and eggs and milk), your body isn't missing anything critical.

 

[Idolater]

... YOU OLDSTERS NEED TO LIFT WEIGHTS

Here's a couple in their 70s. You can see them doing deadlifts in a few of the clips in the weight room. I'm not saying they're doing them particularly well, but wearing those weightlifting belts can help prevent injury; they might be worth looking into.

 

[Idolater]

300 LBS
4 (0 rir /rnr)

That's it; that's the workout. I could only do four reps at 300 LBS, so I stopped.

270 LBS
5
4 (1-2 rnr)

Extenuating circumstances probably prevented me from completing that second set of five. I mean extenuating circumstances existed (like last week, but different circumstances then), and they probably prevented me from getting to five reps before reaching 0 rnr. So if not for these circumstances I probably would have done two sets of five and one partial set, instead of one complete set of five and one partial set.

Next week's plan regardless: 280 LBS. Last time with this weight:

280 LBS x 5 (x 2) + 280 LBS x 3
Stopped at 1-2 rnr. ("1-2 rnr" means, I know I could have done a 4th if I tried very hard, and I may have been able to do another one but maybe not.)

Translation:
280 LBS
5
5
3 (1-2 rnr /rir)

... At 270 LBS do one set of five or AMRAP (whichever comes first, which will likely be five reps unless something unexpected happens to me during the week that impinges my strength significantly). And then once I clear one five-rep set, take a breather, and attempt another.

Something unexpected happened between my first and second set that impinged my strength significantly imo. Otherwise I would have done another full five-rep set.

 

[Idolater]

Deadlift is like bicep curl, but for your back. Your bicep is one muscle, and your back is like over a dozen different muscles all working together as if they are one, like as a system; but the deadlift is just one exercise.

Here are some of the back muscles.

You want a strong back.

 

[Idolater]

More depictions of back muscles.

All these muscles are doing work whenever you bend down to tie your shoes and then stand up.

When you reach down to your feet or ankles, and then stand up, you're doing a deadlift, you're just doing a bodyweight deadlift.

 

[Idolater]

Last week:

​

270 LBS

5​

4 (1-2 rnr)​

​

Today.
280 LBS
5
3 (~1 rnr)

... Last time with this weight: ...​

280 LBS​

5​

5​

3 (1-2 rnr /rir)​

So I'm weaker (compared to 280 LBS four weeks ago). No banana.

Think. Strength (relative strength) is a function of diet, sleep, and exercising (lifting).​

​

I'm either not lifting enough, not eating right, or not sleeping well. Or some combination.​

​

For now, first blush, I'm ignoring not lifting enough as a cause, since even if I'm not lifting enough, that doesn't explain this fall in strength enough. It's too much of a drop in strength to be from not lifting enough, even at only one workout a week, even at the low reps I'm doing, in fact the low reps being due to it being near the peak of my strength means it's even less likely to be from not lifting enough. It's only been four weeks.

Which leaves eating and sleeping as the possible culprits.

Like I've said I focus my protein intake on my workout day (e.g. I've already supplemented ~50 extra grams of whey (whole) protein today), and the next days afterward when I feel (delayed onset) muscle soreness from the workout. I'll have some more today too, along with eating meat meals.​

​

The rest of the days, basically Tuesdays until Saturdays, I taper off my protein intake so that I'm not supplementing at all and I'm not insisting on as much protein generally, nor am I making sure of eating whole protein as much, or at all. I'll frequently eat grain or cereal or potato meals without even a legume to improve protein quantity and quality.​

So maybe I need to be more disciplined about eating, and eating more and better protein later in the week?

But I'm afraid my real trouble is my sleep, simply not enough sleep. Too frequently I'm clocking like six hours and not infrequently less than six. That's I know just too few for getting stronger, especially if those six-hour nights are frequent, which they are.

Something unexpected happened between my first and second set that impinged my strength significantly imo. Otherwise I would have done another full five-rep set.

I still stand by this, and it isn't impossible that this disruption caused a drop in strength from last week to this. If I had done iow something like 13 reps last week instead of the 9reps that I did, that's over 40% more volume, and I could believe such a missed opportunity contributing to me only completing one five-rep set today at 280 LBS rather than doing two and a partial set on top.

But I still think all things considered I should be focusing on my sleep hygiene or discipline.

 

[Jefferson]

But I'm afraid my real trouble is my sleep, simply not enough sleep.

I've recently compiled different techniques on getting to sleep quickly:

 

[Idolater]

So far so good on sleep this week. Eight or more hours each night.

Been thinking about strength. About the goal of getting stronger. I think that one of the things to keep in mind is that we basically want to be able to move like we did as kids. Kids run and jump, pick things up, spring around, break out into sprints at the drop of a hat, bend and twist themselves all up, and then they're totally fine.

As adults as we approach and hit 'the wall' more and more with the mindset of being careful when we move. We have to watch how we bend down to tie our shoe or put on socks, we have to be careful how we sit down and how we get back up, we have to be very careful with our backs, and our other joints.

I think basically kids, while having younger and more naturally flexible joints, are also stronger relative to their weight. They don't have to worry about their technique or mechanics when they bend down to pick something up, or when they are wielding a brush or a mop or broom, they just do the thing, and then they are fine. They don't 'nurse' an overloaded muscle or even worse a strain, or even worse a more serious injury, basically because they are stronger than us all things considered.

So lifting for strength training and strength building is about fighting ageing, it's about fighting to return to childhood, about getting back to where we also don't have to worry about how we bend down to pick something up off the floor, about how we're positioning ourselves while lifting something at an angle or across our body, or how we're bearing a little weight while simultaneously twisting our spine to reach for something awkwardly placed.

==
I do feel good enough to add another workout to my weeks now. I'm considering it. It would just be adding another workout like Tuesday or Wednesday, keeping my Saturday workouts unchanged. But I think I'll keep thinking about it for now, see how this sleep focus works out this week, see how I do on Saturday with 290 LBS.

==
How strong is the human back? It's difficult to tell from competition deadlifters like Eddie Hall or "the Mountain", who are 'pulling' 500 KGS (over 1,100 LBS). When these 'monsters' are doing that weight they are engaging their legs as much as possible, which means they're bending their knees more than is technically ideal when doing the deadlift in training. If you ever watch any of these guys deadlifting competitively you can clearly see their knees bent when they start their lift. They do other things too, like rolling the bar away from them, and then suddenly jerking the barbell upward, in order to get a little momentum going that they then with brute strength heave upward, to help them just a little bit, so that they can lift up that massive weight.

Competition deadlift is a whole different exercise from the technically correct deadlift done in training. Competition deadlift is more complex, it is more athletic, it is much more like a 'snatch' or a 'clean-and-jerk' in its athleticism. It is not how you should train if you're training for just strength. For strength training, you should always use good technical form, slowly lifting the weight up and slowly putting it down, keeping your knees as straight as possible when pulling off the floor, and keeping them straight just until you're about to put the weight back down again. The whole exercise focuses on your hips, on your hamstrings (the back of your thighs), your lower back and upper back (the traps and lats), not your thighs. Your thighs engage the more you bend your knees. If you want to strengthen your thighs, so squats, not the deadlift wrong.

So basically, when Eddie Hall is lifting 500 or 501 KGS, we can estimate that his back is doing like 90% of that weight, which means that perhaps the strongest human backs can lift with a standard deadlift, something like 1,000 LBS.

I've got nowhere to go but up!

 

[Idolater]

Yeah the guy has multiple doctorates, but even being an MD, should you just take his word for it?

I mean, what kind of authoritative opinion might he have in relation to the deadlift? Nothing in particular. Except maybe, he'd know if the deadlift were going to injure you, I guess you could reasonably expect that an MD would know whether something was going to injure or harm you. But it doesn't mean the guy knows what he's talking about with the deadlift exercise.

But the video is pretty good. He has a nice 'pictorial' of which muscles are engaged during the deadlift. There are a lot of them!

One minor criticism is that, where the exercise can be conceived of as two parts; a 'pull' off the floor, and then a 'put' the barbell back down: His deadlift emphasizes the 'pull', but really minimizes the 'put'.

He almost just drops the bar after he pulls it up. He does like half of a 'put'. I prefer the full 'pull' and 'put' version, which can also be conceived of as a deadlift followed by a "Romanian" deadlift, which emphasizes the 'put'. This form also lends itself to the 'touch-and-go' deadlift, which I personally prefer since it keeps me fully loaded the whole set, but this is a minor criticism, and on a personal preference anyway. 'Resetting' after each deadlift is perfectly acceptable if it works for you, just like 'touch-and-go'.