Legal Notes: taking stock of the law here and abroad.

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Like I said, it has no biblical basis.

Sure.

You also said,
I have never understood why folks supplicate the state for permission to marry
and that's the part I was answering.

People aren't entering into the secular part of it for religious reasons, so the absence of Biblical basis isn't on point. The state isn't attempting to insinuate itself into a religious rite, but is instead setting up a secular contract in parallel or entire.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Sure.

You also said, and that's the part I was answering.

People aren't entering into the secular part of it for religious reasons, so the absence of Biblical basis isn't on point. The state isn't attempting to insinuate itself into a religious rite, but is instead setting up a secular contract in parallel or entire.

Yes. So, I'm not real sure why someone would feel compelled to enter into contract with the state when contemplating matrimony. One would think the contract is between the two participants. This legal ménage à trois has long mystified me.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Yes. So, I'm not real sure why someone would feel compelled to enter into contract with the state when contemplating matrimony.
D-i-v-o-r-c-e. Nearly half of our marital good intentions end up on this pyre. That would be the main reason. And it opens the gates for privileges that might factor with the couple and individual in relation to the state.

One would think the contract is between the two participants.
You ever have a document witnessed?

This legal ménage à trois has long mystified me.
It's a regular Rubik's Cube. :)
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
D-i-v-o-r-c-e. Nearly half of our marital good intentions end up on this pyre. That would be the main reason. And it opens the gates for privileges that might factor with the couple and individual in relation to the state.


You ever have a document witnessed?


It's a regular Rubik's Cube. :)

Well, mankind had gotten along without this for thousands of years ... some might view this development as progress but I'm not so sure. It is profitable though ...
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
NAACP: Blast Confederate generals off Stone Mountain

The NAACP from Atlanta Georgia are calling for the removal of the images carved into Stone Mountain.

Those of you who've read me on the Confederate flag by now understand I'm no particular fan of Confederate commemoration. That said, there's a world of difference between a flag being flown over a seat of government and what amounts to a museum.

Said the release, issued by its President, Richard Rose:

"History reminds us that despite the hero status accorded to Robert E. Lee, the West Point educated Lee was a traitor who led the military effort of the breakaway states, including Georgia. The insurrection's sole purpose was to create a separate nation that would maintain the enslavement of generations of African descendants."

First, Lee wasn't a "traitor". He'd have been a traitor had he played the role of Bennidict Arnold. Instead, he resigned and returned to his native state, which withdrew from the Union, an act generally thought to have been a legal one, the Union objection notwithstanding, separating Lee from that status. It isn't then an "insurrection" either. It was and remains, a war between powers with the prevailing power deciding the larger legal issues in its favor, the outcome of which I support.

The only thing the NAACP gets right is the point of that separation.

Now it should be noted that while the park is on state land it doesn't, as Rose asserted erroneously, receive tax payer support through the state. Rather, it sustains itself through fees collected by tourism.
 

resodko

BANNED
Banned
First, Lee wasn't a "traitor".

post a definition

use websters, if you like

i prefer the oed

Instead, he resigned...

resigned from what?

...and returned to his native state...

that's all he did?

he just returned to his native state?

well then, I guess he wasn't a traitor after all.

one might think that a traitor would fight against the country he used to to be sworn to defend


apparently the non-traitor Lee didn't do that, eh?
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
NAACP: Blast Confederate generals off Stone Mountain

The NAACP from Atlanta Georgia are calling for the removal of the images carved into Stone Mountain.

Those of you who've read me on the Confederate flag by now understand I'm no particular fan of Confederate commemoration. That said, there's a world of difference between a flag being flown over a seat of government and what amounts to a museum.

Said the release, issued by its President, Richard Rose:

"History reminds us that despite the hero status accorded to Robert E. Lee, the West Point educated Lee was a traitor who led the military effort of the breakaway states, including Georgia. The insurrection's sole purpose was to create a separate nation that would maintain the enslavement of generations of African descendants."

First, Lee wasn't a "traitor". He'd have been a traitor had he played the role of Bennidict Arnold. Instead, he resigned and returned to his native state, which withdrew from the Union, an act generally thought to have been a legal one, the Union objection notwithstanding, separating Lee from that status. It isn't then an "insurrection" either. It was and remains, a war between powers with the prevailing power deciding the larger legal issues in its favor, the outcome of which I support.

The only thing the NAACP gets right is the point of that separation.

Now it should be noted that while the park is on state land it doesn't, as Rose asserted erroneously, receive tax payer support through the state. Rather, it sustains itself through fees collected by tourism.

You just really are falling for the whole media driven racial thing going on right now. Have fun with that ... when the ship hits the sand just remember ... I told you so. :e4e:
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
You just really are falling for the whole media driven racial thing going on right now. Have fun with that ... when the ship hits the sand just remember ... I told you so. :e4e:
You must not have been paying attention to what I wrote. Read it again and you'll find in this instance the only thing I think the NAACP got right was the root of that lamentable war.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
You must not have been paying attention to what I wrote. Read it again and you'll find in this instance the only thing I think the NAACP got right was the root of that lamentable war.

You might want to start rereading a whole lot of my posts. Your interest in and beliefs concerning this subject are being used against you and pretty much everyone else who allows themselves to be led around by the nose by our bought off media for purposes few discern. They are fomenting a race war by marginalizing, stereotyping and otherwise negating legitimate concerns on both sides for that purpose ... just like the last time. Guess who is going to gain ... it ain't you and it ain't me.

In the words of the late lamented "deep throat" ... follow the money.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
You might want to start rereading a whole lot of my posts.
I've read everything you've posted to me...I'm still waiting on that list of things you think I avoided.

Your interest in and beliefs concerning this subject are being used against you and pretty much everyone else who allows themselves to be led around by the nose by our bought of media.
See, this concerns me and speaks to a problem that should concern you. You'll concede my education and intelligence in one moment and then describe someone using neither in the next.

That's not reasonable. But it is how you hold onto a bias.
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
I've read everything you've posted to me...I'm still waiting on that list of things you think I avoided.

So you can avoid them again?


See, this concerns me and speaks to a problem that should concern you. You'll concede my education and intelligence in one monent and then describe someone using neither in the next.

That's not reasonable. But it is how you hold onto a bias.

I would suggest that this is a matter that should concern us both. Anyone who tries to convince you that a human and their concerns may be reduced to a symbol and then define that symbol will eventually have you killing them and feeling good about it for their own purposes.

Quit worrying about flags and start worrying about people.

... and follow the money.

Who profits from conflict?

That is who is trying to direct your traffic.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
So you can avoid them again?
All I can do is tell you I don't believe the charge is sustainable, but that if you have issues you don't feel were addressed then set them out clearly and I'll do my best.

This sort of response just ends the point of conversation.

I would suggest that this is a matter that should concern us both. Anyone who tries to convince you that a human and their concerns may be reduced to a symbol and then define that symbol will eventually have you killing them and feeling good about it for their own purposes.
I see it this way, the Confederate battle flag was a symbol of a national evil. It shouldn't be flown over a state capital. It doesn't reduce human beings to recognize it was a symbol for doing precisely that.

Quit worrying about flags and start worrying about people.
It isn't an either/or.

... and follow the money.
Stop with the cryptic and make a particular, clear argument about what you believe is happening.

Who profits from conflict?

That is who is trying to direct your traffic.
My response to the arguments against flying a Confederate flag over a seat of government are my own and have been. It's just topical now because the media is running with it.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
This?

For my money (pun intended) Lincoln's greatest contribution to the Northern Union might well have been his epiphany concerning the need to escape the clutches of the military profiteers that had bankrolled the North's effort to that point and take control of the Union's monetary system.

I thought you were speaking to the present concern. That's what this thread is dealing with, not the Civil War and who reaped profits by it.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
This?



I thought you were speaking to the present concern. That's what this thread is dealing with, not the Civil War and who reaped profits by it.

The terms of our monetary system have been repeatedly codified, some would suggest in opposition to the constitution, so I thought the matter germane.

You might want to tweak your O.P. so as to avoid further unwanted offerings by those of us unsure as to your intent.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
So chrys finally decided what he wanted from me in terms of addressing a number of this year's rulings. I thought it should be here instead of a faux awards thread so here it is so far:

Okay, let's run them down.

Glossip v Gross: I'm against the death penalty, but I haven't read the opinion so I don't know that I'd be aligned with the minority dissent.

Obergefell v. Hodges: I just spoke to that one in the post you mostly ignored.

King v. Burwell: I agree with the reasoning of Chief Justice Roberts. He wrote the opinion and the "liberals" who worry you joined it, along with Kennedy. He rightly noted the ambiguity in the law, read as those opposing the Affordable Healthcare Act would have it "...would destabilize the individual insurance market in any State with a Federal Exchange, and likely create the very ‘death spirals’ that Congress designed the Act to avoid.”


Arizona State Legislature v. Arizona Independent Redistricting Commission: I disagree with the majority on their reading of the law. Roberts is right. The term legislature isn't ambiguous and shouldn't be read as some catch-all. If people want to alter the power of the legislature let them do it through the legislature and not by expanding the definition of a word that isn't ambiguous in its historical usage, even if the broadening matches the sentiment behind laws attacking gerrymandering. And gerrymandering can be attacked without pulling the power reserved for the legislature, duly appointed by the people.

Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs v. Inclusive Communities Project: the Court was right. Scalia knew it and then turned and hid in the minority when he knew he the vote wouldn't ride on him.

Reed v. Town of Gilbert, Ariz: I agree with the unanimous opinion of the Court.

Walker v. Texas Division, Sons of Confederate Veterans: the majority was right. The government, in protecting speech, is not obligated to promote particular speech using its licenses. Interesting to see Thomas siding with those liberals. But he and they are right and the cautionary note by Alito is toothless since the government isn't, by failing to couple its authority in seal with a particular sentiment, dampening speech.

Zivotofsky v. Kerry: the Court was correct in striking the law. Another Thomas and Kennedy add-in. Roberts misstates what is happening. The never before belonged in an arrow aimed at the legislature's attempt to usurp the presidential authority and role. Thomas' answer to Scalia was pithy and on point.

Elonis v. United States: I disagree with the Court and side with the prosecutors over the reasonable reading of threatening language. Couching it in the pretense of therapy shouldn't have protected a man who could have written that "therapy" on his personal stationary. Instead he communicated it publicly and I think the intent is unmistakable. A vague and troubling ruling. I'll side with Thomas in dissent and note his complaint on the lack of clarity in the majority ruling as it pertains to standard.

Equal Employment Opportunity Commission v. Abercrombie & Fitch Stores: I agree with the majority opinion. Thomas is mistaken.

Williams-Yulee v. Florida Bar: Roberts caps my thinking with his, "A state’s decision to elect judges does not compel it to compromise public confidence in their integrity."

Young v. United Parcel Service: Haven't read the opinion, but it seems with Alito on board, along with Roberts, this isn't a conservative/liberal rift.

Holt v. Hobbs: the entire Court is correct.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Been awhile. Well, in my state they're closing down license issuance bureaus in eight out of ten counties with the highest democrat composition. They're also among the poorest. Why is this news? In part because not long ago we made the presentation of a license or some other valid photographic evidence of identity, which is for nearly everyone that license, a requirement for voting.
 
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