Legal Notes: taking stock of the law here and abroad.

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
yes I thought so too if the link in my other post doesn't work I'll re post it pickrell is the cognitive psychologist so it seems it would be a valid study, as in your example knowing this I would find myself being picked as a juror diffacult because I would over analyze it,that is I would always think maybe,maybe not,lol
That's a healthy place to keep your head while taking in the testimony. It's also why the "speedy trial" is especially important in cases resting mostly on that sort of testimony. But your burden isn't to be certain, only to be certain that the case made over comes a presumption of innocence and that the conclusion of the evidence leaves no reasonable doubt, in criminal matters.


That's not the same thing as there being no alternate explanation. So yes, someone might have been happening by the accused's house, sneaked in, stolen the accused's gun then shot his wife ten times while the accused was in the bathroom cooling down from an argument. And that intruder might have then fled into the night while taking nothing and leaving no trace of the intrusion else, but...
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
US Senate confirms Loretta Lynch as attorney general
by Laura DeGeer at 5:04 PM ET

[JURIST] The US Senate [official website] on Thursday voted 56-43 to confirm Loretta Lynch [official profile] to serve as Attorney General, establishing her as the first black woman to lead the Justice Department [official website]. Lynch was nominated by the Senate Judiciary Committee [official website] 188 days prior on November …


Tennessee has advanced two bills for the governor's signature that would require abortion centers to qualify as surgical centers as well as requiring women to receive counselling and wait for 48 hrs prior to the procedure.

A bill was introduced in the Alabama House recently that would protect the unborn beginning with its first heartbeat, though that measure is a long way from reaching the governor's desk. If passed it would be the most restrictive abortion law in the nation, though North Dakota made a similar attempt only to have it declared unconstitutional last year. The Alabama bill's author, Terri Collins, plans to work on the language to escape that same fate.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
During debate before the Court on the question of gay marriage, Justice Roberts took the inquiry into a less often examined area, one that might allow the conservative Justice to rule against attempts to bar gay marriage without directly addressing the issue of orientation.


“Counsel, I’m not sure it’s necessary to get into sexual orientation to resolve the case,” Roberts said. “I mean, if Sue loves Joe and Tom loves Joe, Sue can marry him and Tom can’t. And the difference is based upon their different sex. Why isn’t that a straightforward question of sexual discrimination?”

 

whitestone

Well-known member
During debate before the Court on the question of gay marriage, Justice Roberts took the inquiry into a less often examined area, one that might allow the conservative Justice to rule against attempts to bar gay marriage without directly addressing the issue of orientation.


“Counsel, I’m not sure it’s necessary to get into sexual orientation to resolve the case,” Roberts said. “I mean, if Sue loves Joe and Tom loves Joe, Sue can marry him and Tom can’t. And the difference is based upon their different sex. Why isn’t that a straightforward question of sexual discrimination?”



thats odd wording T.H. ,,,,"gay",,,lets say someone is born intersex and as we know during the first 12 weeks of development the persons mother came into contact with a "mutagen". Now then so the baby was going to develop into a "male",but because of the mutagen and did not fully develop,,,is this person Gay,,,or deformed?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
thats odd wording T.H.
No idea why you think so. When referring to sexual orientation the usage is appropriate and the question has been framed as one regarding the rights of homosexuals to wed, aka gay marriage.

Anyway, Roberts may be signaling his inclination to side against a bar to homosexual unions, but after a different fashion.
 

rougueone

New member
What this thread is about: a place to note and discuss current laws, trends and topics.

I'll attempt over its course to raise the general level of awareness and understanding on a variety of legal topics. Sometimes with commentary and often without it.

I will take questions on the law from time to time and if I think I have the answer and/or it isn't something that feels like my taking on a client. I'll be happy to share my best understanding. If I don't know I'll say so and I may look into it further as time permits.

What this thread isn't about: free legal advice. The Bar frowns on someone who isn't actively practicing doing that. Frowns on more than general answers to anyone who isn't a client involved in that confidential and obligatory relationship.

It also isn't the place to criticize the most successful legal system in the world, however certain you may be that you have the fix for what you believe ails it. If that's your aim, start a thread on it elsewhere.

To begin:

The House of Representatives in Ohio passed a measure yesterday that would make it illegal to perform an abortion after the fetal heartbeat can be detected. The governor opposes it and the Senate there killed a similar measure in 2011. Alabama, Arkansas and North Dakota have tried similar laws, with the North Dakota measure being blocked by a Federal judge citing the S.Ct.'s ruling that limits those bans to the point of viability.

The SCOTUS has revived a UPS employee suit over pregnancy accommodation and has reconsidered the test relating to the Pregnancy Discrimination Act. The Act requires employers to treat pregnant women as they would nonpregnant workers “similar in their ability or inability to work.”

The SCOTUS is considering "whether the Environmental Protection Agency unreasonably refused to consider costs in determining whether it is appropriate to regulate hazardous air pollutants emitted by electric utilities." This consideration arising from three cases before it: Michigan v. EPA, Utility Air Regulatory Group v. EPA, and National Mining Association v. EPA, consolidated into a single argument on the point.

Should we be looking to mans law? Or Gods law/love? And how did Jesus set the example for us regarding mans laws ?

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4303396#post4303396
 

rougueone

New member
During debate before the Court on the question of gay marriage, Justice Roberts took the inquiry into a less often examined area, one that might allow the conservative Justice to rule against attempts to bar gay marriage without directly addressing the issue of orientation.


“Counsel, I’m not sure it’s necessary to get into sexual orientation to resolve the case,” Roberts said. “I mean, if Sue loves Joe and Tom loves Joe, Sue can marry him and Tom can’t. And the difference is based upon their different sex. Why isn’t that a straightforward question of sexual discrimination?”


Speaking of .... ‘We will not obey’: Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage...

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4303396#post4303396
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Should we be looking to mans law?
When addressing Caesar, yes.

Or Gods law/love? And how did Jesus set the example for us regarding mans laws ?
Jesus said to give Caesar his due and God what was due to God. Given he wasn't commanding people to forgo paying taxes, even though that taxation went into idol worship and crucifixions, any number of immoral pursuits in whole or part, I don't think we as Christians have much traction staging a tax mutiny or believing ourselves to be differently situated.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Been a while since I fooled with this one, but today is a fairly important day in Court decisions, given the national sweep and impact.


WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court declared Friday that same-sex couples have a right to marry anywhere in the United States.

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote the majority opinion. Two of the four dissenting justices played the "we're not legislator's" card, which was a curious position given what they've done with corporate speech and expanding eminent domain. But then, no one ever accused the Court of lacking a sense of humor...well, of being funny then.
 

The Berean

Well-known member
TH,

In your legal opinion what would have happened if the Court had voted 5-4 against homosexual marriage? Would that mean homosexual marriage would be banned in the US forever?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
"Successful" meaning the system that has the highest-paid lawyers.
No, meaning that about 98% of the cases advanced via the criminal or civil system never even go to trial with convictions coming in all of them. And that of the rough two percent that go to trial, those convicted find their convictions overwhelmingly upheld while leaving room for the odd poorly decided case or case where subsequent science and/or testimony can be called to invalidate the holding.

It's a wildly successful system, whatever one thinks of some of the laws in play.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
TH,

In your legal opinion what would have happened if the Court had voted 5-4 against homosexual marriage? Would that mean homosexual marriage would be banned in the US forever?
No, I think had the Court gone the other way it would have been along the lines of Robert and left the issue open to the states, which likely would eventually ratify the notion over time. Faster some places and slower in others.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
What this thread is about: a place to note and discuss current laws, trends and topics.

:cool:


What this thread isn't about: free legal advice. The Bar frowns on someone who isn't actively practicing doing that. Frowns on more than general answers to anyone who isn't a client involved in that confidential and obligatory relationship.

Me not being a lawyer I'll likely survive their wrath should I incur it ... that said, I can tell you from experience that the Texas State Bar has all the teeth of a 70 year old meth addict.


... and then there is the Texas State Commission on Judicial Conduct ...:nono:
 
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fzappa13

Well-known member
"Successful" meaning the system that has the highest-paid lawyers.

... more like the most lawyers per capita ... although the two thoughts aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. Truth is most of them toil in anonymity for something less than a king's ransom prior to defending O.J.
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
No, meaning that about 98% of the cases advanced via the criminal or civil system never even go to trial with convictions coming in all of them. And that of the rough two percent that go to trial, those convicted find their convictions overwhelmingly upheld while leaving room for the odd poorly decided case or case where subsequent science and/or testimony can be called to invalidate the holding.

It's a wildly successful system, whatever one thinks of some of the laws in play.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess you plied your trade as a defense attorney, no?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess you plied your trade as a defense attorney, no?
No. I actually began by working for the attorney general's office. I also did some criminal defense work, ad litum representation and did a great deal of litigation as a civil attorney, where I both represented plaintiffs and defendants in suits of various kinds. I've worked on the state and federal level and in about every sort of court there is...so I suppose you could say that you both hit and missed.

I have a fairly well rounded familiarity with the profession in most particulars. All of that impacts my opinion of a much maligned system, mostly by people with distorted anecdotal impressions misinforming them and leading them into errant if honestly held conclusions.

All that said the quote you included in that speculation would be a thing much more comfortable for a prosecutor to rest on (given the inferential praise of their work outcome).
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
No. I actually began by working for the attorney general's office. I also did some criminal defense work, ad litum representation and did a great deal of litigation as a civil attorney, where I both represented plaintiffs and defendants in suits of various kinds. I've worked on the state and federal level and in about every sort of court there is...so I suppose you could say that you both hit and missed.

Okay, I guess I should have said your experiences have left you leaning toward the cause of the defense. Apologies. Had I known I would have been a bit more sussinct in my observation.

I have a fairly well rounded familiarity with the profession in most particulars. All of that impacts my opinion of a much maligned system, mostly by people with distorted anecdotal impressions misinforming them and leading them into errant if honestly held conclusions.

I can assure you that my impressions are anything but anecdotal ... but I will admit, when you spend enough money in civil litigation only to find the only penalty provisions incurred are monetary and fairly easily avoided it leaves one with a bit of a jaundiced eye as it concerns that aspect of litigation.

All that said the quote you included in that speculation would be a thing much more comfortable for a prosecutor to rest on (given the inferential praise of their work outcome).

Yes, well, that may be true ... when you've suffered the deprivations of a lack of prosecution long enough you naturally tend to pine for the ideal ... if you are the victim, that is.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Okay, I guess I should have said your experiences have left you leaning toward the cause of the defense.
(mulls) I don't know. Leaning is tricky. Having worked a while in the system I know that most people charged with a crime are guilty. I also know the attitude that can breed on both sides of the aisle and the bench, which then leads me to be equally zealous as the standard of law in defending someone, because even though the law begins with a presumption of innocence I understand everyone involved thinks they know better than that, if you follow.

So, for the sake of the few you have to really try the assumption of the many.

Apologies. Had I known I would have been a bit more sussinct in my observation.
No harm done and I wasn't offended really, only distinguishing one impression for another.


I can assure you that my impressions are anything but anecdotal ...
When did I say anything about your impressions?

but I will admit, when you spend enough money in civil litigation only to find the only penalty provisions incurred are monetary and fairly easily avoided it leaves one with a bit of a jaundiced eye as it concerns that aspect of litigation.
See, that's anecdotal and what I meant. Without knowing the jurisdiction and particulars I'd say that civil litigation can be frustrating for any number of reasons and that victories can frequently be reduced to the moral variety...but it ain't necessarily so. Ask O. J. and anyone actively pursued by a diligent claimant.

Yes, well, that may be true ... when you've suffered the deprivations of a lack of prosecution long enough you naturally tend to pine for the ideal ... if you are the victim, that is.
First thing I'd do with a client in a claim is estimate the cost and the likely outcome, potential downfalls and frustrations and then I'd say, "Now knowing the potential here the only real question is, what do you want and what are you willing to go through to get it?"
 
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