I'm not sure about what you are saying here. I don't know if it is true or not.
law in light of the gospel
- Thread starter Jacob
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achduke
Active member
That the 144,000, The Woman of Rev 12 and the two witnesses are most likely the same group. The Remnant of Israel. They will go through Revelation as Israel did in Exodus and be fed and protected by God.
Again, I don't know that what you are saying is true.
turbosixx
New member
This is dangerous to me, it leaves it up to man to decide.
There is a lot of confusion in "Christianity" and everyone will tell you they are guided by the HS. Again, it's really man deciding.
When I say "the law" I am referring to the Mosaical law that could not save. The law of Christ does save and yes those who are saved can sin.
1 Cor. 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.
1 Jn. 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
achduke
Active member
Not if someone truly has the Holy Spirit as a guide.
God says that he will give us his Holy Spirit. Now I know of no one that has the Holy Spirit today like Christ or the OT Prophets but by faith I believe God will give us his Holy Spirit to guide us. Has this happened fully yet?
Isaiah 51:4-7
4“Pay attention to Me, O My people,
And give ear to Me, O My nation;
For a law will go forth from Me,
And I will set My justice for a light of the peoples.
5“My righteousness is near, My salvation has gone forth,
And My arms will judge the peoples;
The coastlands will wait for Me,
And for My arm they will wait expectantly.
6“Lift up your eyes to the sky,
Then look to the earth beneath;
For the sky will vanish like smoke,
And the earth will wear out like a garment
And its inhabitants will die in like manner;
But My salvation will be forever,
And My righteousness will not wane.
7“Listen to Me, you who know righteousness,
A people in whose heart is My law;
Do not fear the reproach of man,
Nor be dismayed at their revilings.
Deuteronomy4:8
8And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?
Deuteronomy 6:25
25And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.”
turbosixx
New member
This is where the confusion comes in. Whom does the bible say will be guided by the HS? The reason we don't see the HS working as we do in scripture is because the new testament writers were the ones guided by the HS. When we read we are guided by the HS, it's up to use to take it honestly to heart.
2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work
Eph. 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit[/B
achduke
Active member
Ezekiel 11:17-20 Has not yet happened completely. Some of this happened around his first coming but appears to have ended. Why do you think it ended?
Eze 11:17 "Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord God: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." '
Eze 11:19 "Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,
Eze 11:20 "that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
turbosixx
New member
'
Rom. 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin......5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
Acts 4:32 And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.
1Jn. 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
1 Pt. 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
achduke
Active member
I know that part of the remnant had come to know Christ at the time Jesus was here at the first coming but the whole of Israel, the other 10 tribes have not come back to the land of Israel yet.
When do you think that will happen?
Do you think believers are a part of Israel or seperate from Israel?
Lastly why you think the Holy Spirit is not still with the church like he was with the apostles?
turbosixx
New member
As I have said before, I only know what I read. He is what I understand from my reading.
What you are in the flesh doesn't matter in Christ and outside of Christ everyone is lost, Jews included. Paul abandoned everything he gained in Judaism for Christ.
Phil. 3:4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;....7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ......20For our citizenship is in heaven
In Christ we are one body:
Eph. 2:15... that in Himself He might make the two into one new man,
I understand believers to be spiritual Israel, we meet the same physical requirements spiritually.
Descendant of Abraham:
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
Circumcised:
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Priest and Nation:
1 Pt. 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession,
God's People:
1 Pt. 2:10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
I like the analogy of training wheels. Until the revealed word was complete, the growing church needed help to grow and survive.
Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;
Without the written word they need gifts of knowledge, wisdom and prophecy, but once written.
Eph. 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
Do we need to see Jesus to perform miracles to know he did?
Jn. 20:30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Just as Abraham told the rich man, we have all we need.
Luke 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31 But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"
I would suggest to you that the spiritual gifts were only given by the laying on of the apostles hands. There are only two instances I know of where God himself gave them and they were both special situations.
What you are in the flesh doesn't matter in Christ and outside of Christ everyone is lost, Jews included. Paul abandoned everything he gained in Judaism for Christ.
Phil. 3:4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;....7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ......20For our citizenship is in heaven
In Christ we are one body:
Eph. 2:15... that in Himself He might make the two into one new man,
I understand believers to be spiritual Israel, we meet the same physical requirements spiritually.
Descendant of Abraham:
Gal. 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.
Circumcised:
Col. 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
Priest and Nation:
1 Pt. 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession,
God's People:
1 Pt. 2:10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
I like the analogy of training wheels. Until the revealed word was complete, the growing church needed help to grow and survive.
Rom. 1:11 For I long to see you so that I may impart some spiritual gift to you, that you may be established;
Without the written word they need gifts of knowledge, wisdom and prophecy, but once written.
Eph. 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
Do we need to see Jesus to perform miracles to know he did?
Jn. 20:30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Just as Abraham told the rich man, we have all we need.
Luke 16:29 But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30 But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31 But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"
I would suggest to you that the spiritual gifts were only given by the laying on of the apostles hands. There are only two instances I know of where God himself gave them and they were both special situations.
achduke
Active member
I am not talking about the spiritual gifts that come with the Holy Spirit. To have the Holy Spirit Is to have one mind. With all these denominations preaching variations of Christ there is obviously not one mind. Where has that mind gone and why? I see no modern church preaching the truth. They have all fallen away to a degree.
turbosixx
New member
Sorry, I thought you were talking of gifts.
I agree 100%, there should be no denominations. Christ is not divided. Why didn't everyone Jesus preach to believe? The problem lies in the heart of man. Even when presented with the truth people believe what they want to believe for various reasons.
Who was told they would be guided into all truth?
Jn. 14:25 "These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you. 26But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
Jn. 16:12 "I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth;
Again:
Eph. 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;
2 Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
The truth is being preached maybe your looking in the wrong places. If firmly believe, once the truth is no longer preached or practiced, God will pull the plug.