law in light of the gospel

[achduke]

Where I am going with this is that I know Jesus was of the tribe of Judah. Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin. Barnabas was of the tribe of Levi. These three tribes are probably of Judah. I know Judah (the house of Judah) was in the land during the time of Christ. Before the time of Christ there had been the Babylonian captivity, where Judah was taken to Babylon and returned after 70 years.

Before Judah was taken captive, Israel was taken captive.

I don't know if Israel was back in the land during the time of Christ, but Judah was.

I wanted Bible evidence, and as of yet I don't have any.

The Samaritan was from the House of Israel. The house of Israel (northern house) was out of covenant or gentiles. Divorced from God. The book of Hosea talks about God reuniting them again. All Israel Judah and Israel are to be united again. Even Gentiles from other nations can be grafted back in with the house is Israel.

 

[turbosixx]

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the LORD, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I know most on this forum think the law is done away completely but I think the new covenant is God giving us his spirit and guiding us through his law not to sin. That is his new covenant. Before Christ we were all unclean and unable to approach God. We could never even have some thing holy like his spirit in us.

I'm curious, if the law is not completely done away with, how do you know what parts to keep and what not to keep?

 

[achduke]

I'm curious, if the law is not completely done away with, how do you know what parts to keep and what not to keep?

Well God's word is not void so I think all of them that are possible. We obviously could not follow temple law without a physical temple and Levites. The holy spirit will guide. The law does not save but do those that are saved sin?

 

[Jacob]

The new covenant is redemption from sin. Something the old covenant could not do.

1 Cor. 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

There is something the Law could not do, yes.

Romans 8:3-4 NASB - 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

No one is saved by the Law.

Salvation is only found in Jesus.

Acts 4:12 NASB - 12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

 

[Jacob]

When you say law, I'm gonna assume you mean the law of Moses.

The old law was never meant to be permanent but only to help lead us to and help us better understand the law of Christ.

1 Cor. 9: 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

The Law is a tutor to lead us to Christ. After you have been led to Christ you are no longer in need of the Law to be your tutor.

In 1 Timothy we learn that the Law is good if it is used lawfully. In Romans it was good because it reveals sin and has revealed sin in us.

1 Timothy 1:5, 8-11 NASB - 5 But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. ... 8 But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

Romans 7:12, 16 NASB - 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. ... 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

Galatians 3:24 NASB - 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Romans 3:19 NASB - 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 NASB - 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Galatians 3:23 NASB - 23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.

Galatians 4:4-5 NASB - 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Galatians 5:18 NASB - 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Galatians 2:19 NASB - 19 "For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God.

Galatians 3:2-5 NASB - 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain--if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

 

[Jacob]

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the LORD, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I know most on this forum think the law is done away completely but I think the new covenant is God giving us his spirit and guiding us through his law not to sin. That is his new covenant. Before Christ we were all unclean and unable to approach God. We could never even have some thing holy like his spirit in us.

I can read what you say here but I have some difficulty with it.

I believe the Spirit of God dwells in believers now by faith. But I believe before Christ people were saved the same way as now, by faith.

I believe it is possible to obey God's commands.

 

[Jacob]

The Samaritan was from the House of Israel. The house of Israel (northern house) was out of covenant or gentiles. Divorced from God. The book of Hosea talks about God reuniting them again. All Israel Judah and Israel are to be united again. Even Gentiles from other nations can be grafted back in with the house is Israel.

Did this already happen with Christ when He brought the new covenant?

 

[achduke]

Did this already happen with Christ when He brought the new covenant?

The lost sheep of the house of Israel never came home. They are still dispersed among the nations. The new covenant was purchased but we are still teaching the gospel to our neighbors. The remnant of Israel are still not together.

 

[Jacob]

The lost sheep of the house of Israel never came home. They are still dispersed among the nations. The new covenant was purchased but we are still teaching the gospel to our neighbors. The remnant of Israel are still not together.

I don't know if what you are saying can be found in the Bible. That is, I don't know about "the lost sheep of the house of Israel". I don't know if it is Biblical. I also am unsure of what to do about the time of Christ and the coming of the new covenant, which I believe occurred, but which some have had difficulty in accepting. I am simply looking for an answer. I don't know that I have all the facts.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

 

[achduke]

I don't know if what you are saying can be found in the Bible. That is, I don't know about "the lost sheep of the house of Israel". I don't know if it is Biblical. I also am unsure of what to do about the time of Christ and the coming of the new covenant, which I believe occurred, but which some have had difficulty in accepting. I am simply looking for an answer. I don't know that I have all the facts.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.


Ezekiel 44:6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations, 7In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

2 Kings 44:6 In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria captured Samaria and deported the Israelites to Assyria. He settled them in Halah, in Gozan on the Habor River and in the towns of the Medes.

2 Kings 44:6 Is the House of Israel only. Not the House of Judah. Judah was taken to Babylon at a later time and then returned back to Israel. The House of Israel never returned. The 12 Tribes of Israel are divided into 2 Houses.

Ezekial 15-17
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Jeremiah 50:4 “In those days, at that time,”
declares the Lord, “the people of Israel and the people of Judah together
will go in tears to seek the Lord their God.
5They will ask the way to Zion
and turn their faces toward it.
They will come and bind themselves to the Lord
in an everlasting covenant
that will not be forgotten.

Jeremiah 50 Aligns with Revelation where Israel is told to flee Babylon. This has not happened yet.

 

[Jacob]

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.


Ezekiel 44:6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations, 7In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations.

2 Kings 44:6 In the ninth year of Hoshea, the king of Assyria captured Samaria and deported the Israelites to Assyria. He settled them in Halah, in Gozan on the Habor River and in the towns of the Medes.

2 Kings 44:6 Is the House of Israel only. Not the House of Judah. Judah was taken to Babylon at a later time and then returned back to Israel. The House of Israel never returned. The 12 Tribes of Israel are divided into 2 Houses.

Ezekial 15-17
15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Jeremiah 50:4 “In those days, at that time,”
declares the Lord, “the people of Israel and the people of Judah together
will go in tears to seek the Lord their God.
5They will ask the way to Zion
and turn their faces toward it.
They will come and bind themselves to the Lord
in an everlasting covenant
that will not be forgotten.

Jeremiah 50 Aligns with Revelation where Israel is told to flee Babylon. This has not happened yet.

I want to have the correct understanding or interpretation of these verses and this topic.

Judah has returned from Babylon (before the time of Christ even).

 

[achduke]

I want to have the correct understanding or interpretation of these verses and this topic.

Judah has returned from Babylon (before the time of Christ even).

In Revelations Israel is also told to flee Babylon but here it is just a symbol. Not the real nation of Babylon that Judah was taken captive in and then returned.

Revelation 18:4
1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:

“ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’a
She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
Warning to Escape Babylon’s Judgment

4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“ ‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

 

[Jacob]

In Revelations Israel is also told to flee Babylon but here it is just a symbol. Not the real nation of Babylon that Judah was taken captive in and then returned.

Revelation 18:4
1After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2With a mighty voice he shouted:

“ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’a
She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
a haunt for every unclean bird,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”
Warning to Escape Babylon’s Judgment

4Then I heard another voice from heaven say:

“ ‘Come out of her, my people,’
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

I know the book is Revelation not Revelations. That is, it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Are you giving me a different interpretation from what you intended before? I do not have an interpretation or position on this currently.

 

[achduke]

I know the book is Revelation not Revelations. That is, it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Are you giving me a different interpretation from what you intended before? I do not have an interpretation or position on this currently.

Correct it is Revelation. Sorry Typo.

 

[achduke]

I know the book is Revelation not Revelations. That is, it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Are you giving me a different interpretation from what you intended before? I do not have an interpretation or position on this currently.

Same Interpretation.

Main Topic of Bible: The Greatest Love Story.

God Sets apart Israel for himself and becomes the Husband to Israel.

Solomon King of Israel causes Israel to sin and God splits Israel into 2 Houses(House of Israel and House of Judah).

House of Israel Continues to Sin and God Divorces them. Assyria Captures the House of Israel and then they are dispersed among the nations to become like gentiles(Out of Covenant)

The House of Judah also Sins like her adulterous sister (House of Israel) and God sends Judah into captivity into Babylon to which she later returns to the Land of Israel. The House of Israel has yet to return.

Israel can no longer remarry God. It is a sin to divorce and remarry.

God sends his son to die for our sins and also release the bride from her obligation to her husband in death. She is now free to remarry.

End-times God reunites the remnant of the House of Judah and the House of Israel along with grafted in gentiles and marries his bride(remnant of Israel).

God dwells with his bride.


Ezekiel 23:2 The two adulterous sisters.

23 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. 3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed. 4 The older was named Oholah, and her sister was Oholibah. They were mine and gave birth to sons and daughters. Oholah is Samaria, and Oholibah is Jerusalem.

5 “Oholah engaged in prostitution while she was still mine; and she lusted after her lovers, the Assyrians—warriors 6 clothed in blue, governors and commanders, all of them handsome young men, and mounted horsemen. 7 She gave herself as a prostitute to all the elite of the Assyrians and defiled herself with all the idols of everyone she lusted after. 8 She did not give up the prostitution she began in Egypt, when during her youth men slept with her, caressed her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.

9 “Therefore I delivered her into the hands of her lovers, the Assyrians, for whom she lusted. 10 They stripped her naked, took away her sons and daughters and killed her with the sword. She became a byword among women, and punishment was inflicted on her.

11 “Her sister Oholibah saw this, yet in her lust and prostitution she was more depraved than her sister. 12 She too lusted after the Assyrians—governors and commanders, warriors in full dress, mounted horsemen, all handsome young men. 13 I saw that she too defiled herself; both of them went the same way.

14 “But she carried her prostitution still further. She saw men portrayed on a wall, figures of Chaldeans[a] portrayed in red, 15 with belts around their waists and flowing turbans on their heads; all of them looked like Babylonian chariot officers, natives of Chaldea. 16 As soon as she saw them, she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea. 17 Then the Babylonians came to her, to the bed of love, and in their lust they defiled her. After she had been defiled by them, she turned away from them in disgust. 18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister. 19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. 20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. 21 So you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when in Egypt your bosom was caressed and your young breasts fondled.

 

[Jacob]

Israel can no longer remarry God. It is a sin to divorce and remarry.

God sends his son to die for our sins and also release the bride from her obligation to her husband in death. She is now free to remarry.

End-times God reunites the remnant of the House of Judah and the House of Israel along with grafted in gentiles and marries his bride(remnant of Israel).

God dwells with his bride.

This does not make sense to me. I know God hates divorce. At the same time did God divorce Israel? I don't see a contradiction here, but I don't follow your interpretation of scripture.

 

[achduke]

This does not make sense to me. I know God hates divorce. At the same time did God divorce Israel? I don't see a contradiction here, but I don't follow your interpretation of scripture.

It is a sin to remarry someone you divorced. In this case God divorced Israel.

Deuteronomy 24:4
Then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance.

How can God remarry Israel?

1 Corinthians 7:39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

 

[Jacob]

It is a sin to remarry someone you divorced. In this case God divorced Israel.

According to the Law what are the cases where divorce is permitted or lawful? When is remarrying (the same person) not lawful?

Deuteronomy 24:4
Then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled, for that is an abomination before the Lord. And you shall not bring sin upon the land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance.

How can God remarry Israel?

Was Israel defiled? Did Israel have another husband after God divorced her?

 

[Jacob]

1 Corinthians 7:39
A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.

I believe you said the Son of God died, which as a fact by itself is true.

 

[achduke]

According to the Law what are the cases where divorce is permitted or lawful? When is remarrying (the same person) not lawful?
Was Israel defiled? Did Israel have another husband after God divorced her?

You are not permitted to remarry someone you were already married to and then divorced.

Israel was defiled with every other God she ran after and committed adultery with. She was very fond of baal and other idols.