law in light of the gospel

[Jacob]

The gospel involves salvation from sins committed. In this, the Law is recognized as that which reveals sin in the sinner, the unrepentant heart.

What is the place of law in light of the gospel? Should a Christian live according to the law? We are to respect and obey the governing authorities.

So the Law is God's Law and the law is man's law. Obedience to both is what it means to follow or obey the law.

I live in the United States of America. I am wondering what is the place of law, and God's Law, in our land? When we talk about God's Law we talk about whether or not a person is a believer. Believers are to remain separate from the pattern of the world (separate from sin, as followers of Christ). But not all people in the United States live according to God's Law. Indeed, there are even Christians who though they are not law-breakers, they would not say they observe God's Law, at least not the Law of Moses.

Are those who are saved and born again required to observe the Law of Moses or even the Law of God? What does the new covenant mean for the Christian believer who is not of the house of Israel or the house of Judah?

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Luke 22:20 NASB - 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB - 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

 

[turbosixx]

God said he would make a new covenant with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" not like the one he made with them when they came out of Egypt. In your understanding, has he made that covenant with Israel yet?

 

[Jacob]

God said he would make a new covenant with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah" not like the one he made with them when they came out of Egypt. In your understanding, has he made that covenant with Israel yet?

The verse from Luke was Jesus' words, so yes.

 

[turbosixx]

You've got a lot of questions in the OP and the ones I think that are foundational to the rest are these.

Are those who are saved and born again required to observe the Law of Moses or even the Law of God? What does the new covenant mean for the Christian believer who is not of the house of Israel or the house of Judah?

So we are in agreement that Israel has been given a new covenant and that it would not be like the one they received from Moses. What does the new covenant say in regards to nationality?

 

[Jacob]

So we are in agreement that Israel has been given a new covenant and that it would not be like the one they received from Moses. What does the new covenant say in regards to nationality?

The house of Judah and the house of Israel may not be referring to Israel. I don't know if all the tribes are represented in the land during the time of Christ.

 

[turbosixx]

The house of Judah and the house of Israel may not be referring to Israel. I don't know if all the tribes are represented in the land during the time of Christ.

I would think that "the house of Israel" would be sufficient to encompass all twelve tribes and that including the "house of Judah" removes all doubt when referring to the 12 tribes of Israel since the split.

I'm not sure how speculating that a tribe might not be physically present at a point in time would disqualify them from being included in the new covenant. Who was the new covenant to be proclaimed to?

 

[Jacob]

I would think that "the house of Israel" would be sufficient to encompass all twelve tribes and that including the "house of Judah" removes all doubt when referring to the 12 tribes of Israel since the split.

I'm not sure how speculating that a tribe might not be physically present at a point in time would disqualify them from being included in the new covenant. Who was the new covenant to be proclaimed to?

What is the nation of Israel? This goes back to the divided kingdom.

When Jeremiah spoke of the new covenant it was to be with the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Was it Judah that returned from Babylon (I am not meaning the tribe)?

 

[turbosixx]

What is the nation of Israel? This goes back to the divided kingdom.

When Jeremiah spoke of the new covenant it was to be with the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Was it Judah that returned from Babylon (I am not meaning the tribe)?

Who is a Israelite? Rom. 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Phil. 3:4".. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews" Benjamin was in the house of Judah.

In the time of Jesus there was only a remnant of Israel. Rom. 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew..... 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. "

In the time of Jesus there were two types of people, Jew and Gentile. Do you see it another way?

 

[Jacob]

Who is a Israelite? Rom. 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Phil. 3:4".. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews" Benjamin was in the house of Judah.

In the time of Jesus there was only a remnant of Israel. Rom. 11:1 "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew..... 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. "

In the time of Jesus there were two types of people, Jew and Gentile. Do you see it another way?

I see that Benjamin was at least at one point of Judah, so I equate Judah with the house of Judah and Israel at large (as a nation and not specifically the house of Israel though I may be confused about it). I see what you are saying with "of the nation of Israel". Etc...

So no, I don't have a reason to disagree with you. I don't see it another way except the details of what I have described here.

Were there any tribes besides Judah, Benjamin, and Levi in the land at the time of Christ?

Is the reference to Israel and Benjamin to back before the divided kingdom, was Benjamin still Israel after the kingdom was divided, or was Israel present in the land more than the return of Judah including Benjamin as I understand it, from Babylon.

There is the claim that never was Israel entirely removed from the land.

 

[turbosixx]

Were there any tribes besides Judah, Benjamin, and Levi in the land at the time of Christ?

I'm not sure I understand how this question has any significance. I'm not sure where your going with this.

There is the claim that never was Israel entirely removed from the land.

I personally do not put any stock in what man says. Jesus said go to the lost sheep of Israel and I believe it was accomplished wherever they might have been in the land or not. In my understanding, they were only to posses the land if they were obedient to God's commands.

I'm simple and I think simple. If we get off into the realm of speculation, we could end up anywhere. I find its easier to come to an agreement on what the bible says rather than what it doesn't say.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure I understand how this question has any significance. I'm not sure where your going with this.

I personally do not put any stock in what man says. Jesus said go to the lost sheep of Israel and I believe it was accomplished wherever they might have been in the land or not. In my understanding, they were only to posses the land if they were obedient to God's commands.

I'm simple and I think simple. If we get off into the realm of speculation, we could end up anywhere. I find its easier to come to an agreement on what the bible says rather than what it doesn't say.

Where I am going with this is that I know Jesus was of the tribe of Judah. Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin. Barnabas was of the tribe of Levi. These three tribes are probably of Judah. I know Judah (the house of Judah) was in the land during the time of Christ. Before the time of Christ there had been the Babylonian captivity, where Judah was taken to Babylon and returned after 70 years.

Before Judah was taken captive, Israel was taken captive.

I don't know if Israel was back in the land during the time of Christ, but Judah was.

I wanted Bible evidence, and as of yet I don't have any.

 

[turbosixx]

Where I am going with this is that I know Jesus was of the tribe of Judah. Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin. Barnabas was of the tribe of Levi. These three tribes are probably of Judah. I know Judah (the house of Judah) was in the land during the time of Christ. Before the time of Christ there had been the Babylonian captivity, where Judah was taken to Babylon and returned after 70 years.

Before Judah was taken captive, Israel was taken captive.

I don't know if Israel was back in the land during the time of Christ, but Judah was.

I wanted Bible evidence, and as of yet I don't have any.

Ok, I see a little what your getting at. As far as being back in the land, what would qualify as such? The land was not being ruled by any tribe, but by the Romans. I'm not sure the bible will give the evidence your looking for, but I believe it gives us all the information we need. For me that means that the kingdom was at hand was proclaimed to Israel (God's people) and they were given the new covenant.

 

[Jacob]

Ok, I see a little what your getting at. As far as being back in the land, what would qualify as such? The land was not being ruled by any tribe, but by the Romans. I'm not sure the bible will give the evidence your looking for, but I believe it gives us all the information we need. For me that means that the kingdom was at hand was proclaimed to Israel (God's people) and they were given the new covenant.

Like I said, I believe the new covenant came with Jesus Christ.

 

[turbosixx]

Like I said, I believe the new covenant came with Jesus Christ.

Agreed, and I think we agree it was presented to the Jews. So in your understanding, how does the new covenant deal with the Jews as a nation?

 

[Jacob]

Agreed, and I think we agree it was presented to the Jews. So in your understanding, how does the new covenant deal with the Jews as a nation?

When I say the new covenant has already come or arrived, I am referring to the time of Jesus Christ when He brought the new covenant.

 

[Jacob]

(What is) the new covenant?

 

[Jacob]

Knowing that the gospel is good news and the gospel of Jesus Christ has been preached for around two thousand years, what can we say about law in light of the gospel?

 

[turbosixx]

(What is) the new covenant?

The new covenant is redemption from sin. Something the old covenant could not do.

1 Cor. 15:1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve.

 

[turbosixx]

Knowing that the gospel is good news and the gospel of Jesus Christ has been preached for around two thousand years, what can we say about law in light of the gospel?

When you say law, I'm gonna assume you mean the law of Moses.

The old law was never meant to be permanent but only to help lead us to and help us better understand the law of Christ.

1 Cor. 9: 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

 

[achduke]

The gospel involves salvation from sins committed. In this, the Law is recognized as that which reveals sin in the sinner, the unrepentant heart.

What is the place of law in light of the gospel? Should a Christian live according to the law? We are to respect and obey the governing authorities.

So the Law is God's Law and the law is man's law. Obedience to both is what it means to follow or obey the law.

I live in the United States of America. I am wondering what is the place of law, and God's Law, in our land? When we talk about God's Law we talk about whether or not a person is a believer. Believers are to remain separate from the pattern of the world (separate from sin, as followers of Christ). But not all people in the United States live according to God's Law. Indeed, there are even Christians who though they are not law-breakers, they would not say they observe God's Law, at least not the Law of Moses.

Are those who are saved and born again required to observe the Law of Moses or even the Law of God? What does the new covenant mean for the Christian believer who is not of the house of Israel or the house of Judah?

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Luke 22:20 NASB - 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB - 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

Jer 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the LORD, I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

I know most on this forum think the law is done away completely but I think the new covenant is God giving us his spirit and guiding us through his law not to sin. That is his new covenant. Before Christ we were all unclean and unable to approach God. We could never even have some thing holy like his spirit in us.