I don't ... nor do I have any relevant evidence to the contrary.
Normally no ... unless it is being used as a standard of what makes a trustworthy parent. Gender and sexuality is not the deciding factor of a person's ability to be a good parent.
Justice Kennedy needs a reminder about his own fear of harm from gay marriage
- Thread starter GFR7
- Start date
I don't ... nor do I have any relevant evidence to the contrary.
Normally no ... unless it is being used as a standard of what makes a trustworthy parent. Gender and sexuality is not the deciding factor of a person's ability to be a good parent.
At this point you're just pulling things out of thin air. Funny how woman-woman doesn't enter your equation.
Sorry for assuming that you could understand the context was same sex, whether male to male or female to female.
Did you have the same trouble with scripture and did you fail to understand examples such as mankind includes women?
Wow, you truely ARE desperate today, Granite. I hope you feel better.
TracerBullet
New member
again: what about the millions of children of same gendered parents? don't they deserve the same protections?
GFR7
New member
There is a strong argument to be made that these children deserve the protection of their biological mother and father. What happened to the sperm and egg which created them? (not counting adoption here).
TracerBullet
New member
why does that matter?
GFR7
New member
You see no meaning in blood ties, in ancestry, in biology????
How many centuries and which cultures?
GFR7
New member
True. If blood ties have no meaning, then why do thousands and thousands of adopted adults the world over, who had perfectly nice adoptive parents who loved them, go on a quest to find their "real" parents? This has even happened now with sperm donors (they are sought 18 years later as "the real father")......
zoo22
Well-known member
That helps explain why you start thread after thread about the horrors of adoption.
GFR7
New member
Adoption does not contain deliberate alienation:
Parents cannot keep a child, and people adopt them to give them a good life.
With third party reproduction (sperm/egg donors, surrogacy) the child is designed to have a rift. Who is thinking of the children? Many of them say this has deeply affected them.....
you want horrors
who has done more
when it comes to placing orphans in good homes?
and
they were forced out of business because they would not accept same sex couples
so what does this tell you?
accepting same sex couples is more important than placing orphans in good homes
and
that says it all
Sitamun
New member
The Catholic Church is notorious for giving false information both birth parents and adoptive parents. They are known to have changed the child's birthday, in some cases in over a year to make it next to impossible to reunite adoptees with their birth parents when they reached adulthood. The church has also been known to charge large fees for access to basic and sometimes false information.
so what is more important here?
you have three choices
finding good homes for orphans
accepting same sex marriage
finding your real parents
Curiosity. Biology does not make a parent. My two older half brothers were abandoned by their mother and brought up by *our* mother.
I say *our* because my brothers have always considered my mother (the woman who raised them since they were toddlers) as their REAL mother. She is the woman who stood by my father and helped him guide my oldest brother back to health when he caught Spinal Meningitis as a child (which, btw, caused mild retardation).
Personally, I believe that ALL adoptions should be sealed to protect the children and the adoptive parents) who actually put the time, effort and love into raising them).
annabenedetti
like marbles on glass
Kinda hard to find your birth parents when you're being lied to. In the case of Philomena, she was lied to when looking for her son, and her son was lied to when looking for his mother. The nuns could have easily connected the two, but they wouldn't - and Philomena's son died before she found him.
Also, when you think of the importance of a mother's love, think of those loving young mothers and the children who were forcibly separated from each other, and the trauma experienced by both.
Philomena: the real-life story behind the film
Philomena Lee was just 18 when she met a young man at the county fair in Limerick one evening in 1952. She had spent most of her young existence in a Catholic boarding school and knew nothing about the facts of life. A single night of romance left Philomena pregnant, a shameful thing in 1950s Ireland. Her family sent her away to hide her condition, and in the convent of Sean Ross Abbey at Roscrea in County Tipperary she gave birth as a ‘fallen woman’. She was forced to spend the next three and a half years there, slaving in the laundries while also caring for her young son, Anthony.
Worse was to follow. Just before Christmas 1955, Philomena was told her child was being taken from her. She was not allowed to say goodbye. Anthony was given away for adoption in America, in return for a hefty ‘donation’ to the Church from his new parents. Philomena was devastated. Sent away to England, she trained as a nurse and raised a family. But she kept the ‘guilty secret’ of her illegitimate child for 50 years, not telling her other children or her friends because the Church had told her she would be damned if she did so. Philomena spent almost five decades secretly searching for her lost son, while he — unbeknown to Philomena — was also searching for her.
The detective story I embarked on took me to Ireland and to America. I discovered that Anthony had become a successful lawyer and had risen to the heights of the American political world. Renamed Michael Hess, he had served as the White House’s chief legal counsel under Ronald Reagan and George Bush Senior, but he had never stopped thinking about his mother. Like her, he had gone back several times to the convent where he was born and asked the nuns if they would put him in touch with her. The nuns knew they wanted to find each other, but refused to help.
Worse was to follow. Just before Christmas 1955, Philomena was told her child was being taken from her. She was not allowed to say goodbye. Anthony was given away for adoption in America, in return for a hefty ‘donation’ to the Church from his new parents. Philomena was devastated. Sent away to England, she trained as a nurse and raised a family. But she kept the ‘guilty secret’ of her illegitimate child for 50 years, not telling her other children or her friends because the Church had told her she would be damned if she did so. Philomena spent almost five decades secretly searching for her lost son, while he — unbeknown to Philomena — was also searching for her.
The detective story I embarked on took me to Ireland and to America. I discovered that Anthony had become a successful lawyer and had risen to the heights of the American political world. Renamed Michael Hess, he had served as the White House’s chief legal counsel under Ronald Reagan and George Bush Senior, but he had never stopped thinking about his mother. Like her, he had gone back several times to the convent where he was born and asked the nuns if they would put him in touch with her. The nuns knew they wanted to find each other, but refused to help.
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Sitamun
New member
You obviously have had little interaction with adoptees. The terms used are birth parents and adoptive parents to differentiate between the two. Calling one set of parents 'real' is an insult to both.
Also, orphans are children whose birth parents are deceased. I am also curious if you are aware that some dioceses were more diligent in checking the true nature of prospective parents than others. It is not unheard of for the church to give children to abusers, alcoholics, or women having a hard time getting over a miscarriage to 'placate' her instead of actually helping her.
GFR7
New member
All of the above has truth and is given due consideration.
None the less, they began to unseal records because the adoptees fought for this right, and for a reason.
And the search for sperm donor fathers has been a real plight (My Daddy's Name was Donor). And there is even a Donor Sibling Registry: People looking for other adults who had the same donor ("father") and are thus related (what if they meet and marry not knowing?) !!!
It is wired into us to pay heed to blood ties, ancestry (look at all the geneology books and records) and parentage.
The ideal cannot always be lived out, but it should remain an ideal against third party reproduction (I did not say adoption).
@anna: I would agree that young women should not be forced to give their own biological child up for adoption.
None the less, they began to unseal records because the adoptees fought for this right, and for a reason.
And the search for sperm donor fathers has been a real plight (My Daddy's Name was Donor). And there is even a Donor Sibling Registry: People looking for other adults who had the same donor ("father") and are thus related (what if they meet and marry not knowing?) !!!
It is wired into us to pay heed to blood ties, ancestry (look at all the geneology books and records) and parentage.
The ideal cannot always be lived out, but it should remain an ideal against third party reproduction (I did not say adoption).
@anna: I would agree that young women should not be forced to give their own biological child up for adoption.