John 17: 3

[Right Divider]

Who raised Jesus from the dead?

John 2:19-21 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. (2:20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? (2:21) But he spake of the temple of his body.​

​

Acts 3:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:15) And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.​

 

[JudgeRightly]

Just read the verse. It says exactly what Dominic pointed out. No twisting involved:

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 2:8-9 - New King James Version

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

www.biblegateway.com

@Keiw1 I want to add to this here.

Are you familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls? If not, then I highly advise you to go learn about them.

In a nutshell, they are texts of the Old Testament that were discovered in the Qumran caves that date to between the 3rd and 1st centuries before Christ, long before any church could have allegedly gotten their hands on them to supposedly modify them.

Here is Zechariah 2.

Zechariah 2 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

Old Testament Hebrew-English Holy Name King James Version with Strong's numbers. Read online Bible study, search parallel bibles, cross reference verses, compare translations & post comments in bible commentaries at qBible.com.

qbible.com

As you can see, the verses say the exact same thing when it comes to verses 8-9 that our modern Bibles say, that you assert have been modified to try to distort the idea that God is really just a singular Being, into Him being a triune Being.

In other words, your claim is shown to be false, at least in this instance, that the ancient Hebrews only knew God as a singular being, and not as a plurality.

 

[Keiw1]

Because you say so?



Just read the verse. It says exactly what Dominic pointed out. No twisting involved:

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 2:8-9 - New King James Version

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

www.biblegateway.com

The suffix -im in Hebrew denotes plurality.

Cherub, cherubim.
Seraph, seraphim.
Naphil, nephilim.

Elohim is no different.

Eloah, elohim.

https://www.ee.columbia.edu/~johnny/religion/Torah/index.html#:~:text=The%20Hebrew%20ending%20IM%20is,third%2Dperson%20singular%20masculine%20perfect.

The Hebrew word bara (which is translated as "created" in English) is a singular verb.

You're basically claiming that Moses, a well educated man, educated as a prince of Egypt, made an error in the very first verse in the Bible, the verse that is by far the most studied verse in all of scripture.

Are you really going to claim that he made such a basic grammatical error, and that such a supposed error has gone unnoticed by anyone for more than 3500 years?

No, that grammar structure was intentional. "In the beginning Gods <- [He] created the heavens and the earth."

Add to this the verses @Right Divider has been giving you, and it makes sense that God is the origin of the "royal we," because He IS a plural unity.

You best look up the Hebrew language concerning Elohim for the true God. My post on that is fact.
Elijah translates--Elohim is Jehovah.

 

[Keiw1]

@Keiw1 I want to add to this here.

Are you familiar with the Dead Sea Scrolls? If not, then I highly advise you to go learn about them.

In a nutshell, they are texts of the Old Testament that were discovered in the Qumran caves that date to between the 3rd and 1st centuries before Christ, long before any church could have allegedly gotten their hands on them to supposedly modify them.

Here is Zechariah 2.

Zechariah 2 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study

Old Testament Hebrew-English Holy Name King James Version with Strong's numbers. Read online Bible study, search parallel bibles, cross reference verses, compare translations & post comments in bible commentaries at qBible.com.

qbible.com

As you can see, the verses say the exact same thing when it comes to verses 8-9 that our modern Bibles say, that you assert have been modified to try to distort the idea that God is really just a singular Being, into Him being a triune Being.

In other words, your claim is shown to be false, at least in this instance, that the ancient Hebrews only knew God as a singular being, and not as a plurality.

One finds Gods name in the dead sea scrolls, not the titles put in to mislead by the wicked.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You best look up the Hebrew language concerning Elohim for the true God.

Go read the second link in my post, silly.

My post on that is fact.

Because you say so?

Elijah translates--Elohim is Jehovah.

I said, “You are gods,And all of you are children of the Most High.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 82:6 - New King James Version

I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.

www.biblegateway.com

(Image note and reminder, Hebrew is read right to left, thus you should read this verse from right to left.)

 

[JudgeRightly]

One finds Gods name in the dead sea scrolls, not the titles put in to mislead by the wicked.

Completely missing the point.

Did you bother to read the words in the verse?

Regardless of what name is used, if God says, "God has sent me," would that not indicate that there is a plurality in the Godhead?

You, Keiw1, wouldn't say, "Keiw has sent me to bring you a message," would you? That would be odd, at the very least, would it not?

 

[Keiw1]

Go read the second link in my post, silly.



Because you say so?



I said, “You are gods,And all of you are children of the Most High.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 82:6 - New King James Version

I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High.

www.biblegateway.com

View attachment 11119
(Image note and reminder, Hebrew is read right to left, thus you should read this verse from right to left.)

gods small g--Never Gods ever in the Hebrew language.

 

[Keiw1]

Completely missing the point.

Did you bother to read the words in the verse?

Regardless of what name is used, if God says, "God has sent me," would that not indicate that there is a plurality in the Godhead?

You, Keiw1, wouldn't say, "Keiw has sent me to bring you a message," would you? That would be odd, at the very least, would it not?

No, Jesus said--John 17:3--The ONLY TRUE GOD sent him--The Father sent Jesus= The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD---Why wont you believe Jesus?

 

[JudgeRightly]

gods small g--Never Gods ever in the Hebrew language.

It's the same word, doofus.

The same word used for God in Genesis 1:1 is the same word used for gods in Psalm 82:6.

Like I said before, you have to look at the context.

Genesis 1:1 is clearly not talking about "gods."

Psalm 82:6 is clearly not talking about "God."

But it's the same word.

No, Jesus said--John 17:3--The ONLY TRUE GOD sent him--The Father sent Jesus= The Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD---Why wont you believe Jesus?

You're not responding to what I said.

Respond to what I said, please.

Here it is again:

Regardless of what name is used, if God says, "God has sent me," would that not indicate that there is a plurality in the Godhead?

You, Keiw1, wouldn't say, "Keiw has sent me to bring you a message," would you? That would be odd, at the very least, would it not?

 

[Keiw1]

It's the same word, doofus.

The same word used for God in Genesis 1:1 is the same word used for gods in Psalm 82:6.

Like I said before, you have to look at the context.

Genesis 1:1 is clearly not talking about "gods."

Psalm 82:6 is clearly not talking about "God."

But it's the same word.



You're not responding to what I said.

Respond to what I said, please.

Here it is again:

Regardless of what name is used, if God says, "God has sent me," would that not indicate that there is a plurality in the Godhead?

You, Keiw1, wouldn't say, "Keiw has sent me to bring you a message," would you? That would be odd, at the very least, would it not?

The Hebrew language says you are wrong.
God has sent me= 2 beings, the sender is God, the one sent is not called God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Hebrew language says you are wrong.

Because you say so?

Here's the Hebrew:

God has sent me= 2 beings, the sender is God, the one sent is not called God.

The One being sent is the One speaking, and the One speaking is God:

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 2:8-9 - New King James Version

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

www.biblegateway.com

The One who is doing the sending is not speaking. The One doing the sending is God:

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 2:8-9 - New King James Version

For thus says the Lord of hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.

www.biblegateway.com

The Person speaking did not change between verse 8 and verse 9.

 

[theMadThinker]

These are JESUS' words.
Notice how he called his Father the ONLY true God?

 

[JudgeRightly]

These are JESUS' words.
Notice how he called his Father the ONLY true God?

Notice how He did not say that ONLY the Father is the true God.

The way He said it does not exclude Himself from also being the ONLY true God, and it does not exclude the Holy Spirit from also being the ONLY true God.

If Jesus had said, speaking to His Father, "ONLY You are the true God," then it would have falsified the Trinitarian position.

But because that's not what He said, therefore, the Trinitarian position still stands.

 

[theMadThinker]

Notice how He did not say that ONLY the Father is the true God.

The way He said it does not exclude Himself from also being the ONLY true God, and it does not exclude the Holy Spirit from also being the ONLY true God.

If Jesus had said, speaking to His Father, "ONLY You are the true God," then it would have falsified the Trinitarian position.

But because that's not what He said, therefore, the Trinitarian position still stands.

Can use "the Laugh" icon?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can use "the Laugh" icon?

Appeal to the stone is a fallacious argument. Try making a real argument instead.

 

[theMadThinker]

Appeal to the stone is a fallacious argument. Try making a real argument instead.

As you wish!

You said "Notice how He did not say that ONLY the Father is the true God." He certainly DID. ONLY
"The way He said it does not exclude Himself from also being the ONLY true God, and it does not exclude the Holy Spirit from also being the ONLY true God." He certainly did! ONLY
"If Jesus had said, speaking to His Father, "ONLY You are the true God," then it would have falsified the Trinitarian position." EXACTLY!!!
"But because that's not what He said, therefore, the Trinitarian position still stands." In your imagination, my friend!

 

[JudgeRightly]

As you wish!

You said "Notice how He did not say that ONLY the Father is the true God." He certainly DID. ONLY
"The way He said it does not exclude Himself from also being the ONLY true God, and it does not exclude the Holy Spirit from also being the ONLY true God." He certainly did! ONLY
"If Jesus had said, speaking to His Father, "ONLY You are the true God," then it would have falsified the Trinitarian position." EXACTLY!!!
"But because that's not what He said, therefore, the Trinitarian position still stands." In your imagination, my friend!

View attachment 12222

If you can't tell the difference between the following two phrases, there's nothing I can do to help you:

"You, the ONLY true God..."
"ONLY You, the true God..."