Jews Go to Heaven Without Knowing Jesus?

heir

TOL Subscriber
Why is it everyone takes that scripture out of context, as if HaShem is "grace-less"? Noah found GRACE in His eyes, for one. Grace is part of His nature, part of the foundation. His grace is His love crying out for His mercy. Peace
First of all, I'm not sure what scripture you are referring to when you say everyone takes "it" out of context. Secondly, No one here has even suggested what you have about "Ha Shem" being "grace-less". Do try and make a point that is relevant to the discussion.
 

RBBI

New member
It was relevant at the time or I wouldn't have posted it. Now it is buried under "snipe shooting".
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
This view ignores the state of the lost, who can only sin more or sin less and has open the doors to all manner of syncretism within the church militant.

As far as 'hatred of sins' is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.

Misconceptions about what it means to "love our enemies" have resulted in a loss of holy indignation and bold opposition against those who hate God. Christ's command tells us only to do good to those who hate us. It is akin to the the natural benevolence that God shows toward all men (Matthew 5:43-45). But Scripture never teaches us to think of the non-believer as something that they are not; rather, Scripture's position is that all non-Christians are

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- lovers of darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, do not understand, do not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- not able to understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- slaves of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

For a person to think of sinner as something better amounts to a rejection of divine revelation.

Accordingly, although we are to exhibit a natural benevolence toward non-believers, we must also be jealous for God's honor and imitate His holy hatred toward them. Unfortunately, not a few Christians "love" their enemies in a way that amounts to rebellion against God. In fact, in a properly functioning church these "loving" folk would be admonished and be subject to discipline.

We "love" non-believers in the way commanded by Christ when we offer to do them good and refuse to do them harm (Romans 12:20-21, 13:10). But we should have "nothing but hatred" (Psalm 139:22) toward non-believers in the sense that we oppose all of who they are, what they believe, and what they do, for even the civil "good" they do are for the wrong motives, denying the glory of God.

The plain fact is that our non-believing neighbors regard the Christian faith as false. Such a view is to hate us at the deepest level possible, since the content of the Christian faith permeates all of our thinking and behavior. If there is any aspect of our lives that is not yet controlled by Scriptural precepts, it is only because we are still imperfect in our sanctification, and not that we oppose Scripture on the matter. Therefore, for a person who regards Christianity as false, there is nothing in us for him to love. He cannot love us and hate our beliefs-–We are our beliefs; We are Christians.

The "love" that God and Christians show toward non-believers is to be limited to natural and temporal kindness, but on the spiritual and ideological level, God and Christians are completely opposed to the non-believer.

AMR

I do not know who the eternally lost are. The worst sinner can repent and believe. Therefore, I am to treat all as potential believers. I am not to associate with sinners, but to greet all that I pass by.

"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:46-48).

Hate is a heavy burden. Once again I believe in hating the sin, but pray for the sinner.

"Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..." (Matthew 5:42-44).
 

intojoy

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Banned
Heaven is a temporal abode. You should ask your question differently.


Do Jews find redemption apart from the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of the Jewish Messiah?
 

chair

Well-known member
Heaven is a temporal abode. You should ask your question differently.


Do Jews find redemption apart from the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of the Jewish Messiah?

Do Christians find entertainment in anything besides what happens to the Jews in the afterlife?

Go watch a ball game. Or better yet- volunteer in a soup kitchen.
 

RBBI

New member
To be fair, not all of it is mean-spirited. Some are genuinely concerned about the Jewish people's spiritual well-being, based on what they believe about the afterlife.....Just sayin.....
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Once again I believe in hating the sin, but pray for the sinner.
And again you seem to think sin exists as some substance "out there" or whatever as opposed to it being the consequence of evil in the heart of the one so sinning. Those that sin are doing so with a clear will to do so. They get no pass for their willful actions as if they can excuse their behavior with a casual "the devil made me do it" wave off.

Pray for the sinner and hate them with a holy hatred for He whom they are sinning against.

AMR
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
And again you seem to think sin exists as some substance "out there" or whatever as opposed to it being the consequence of evil in the heart of the one so sinning. Those that sin are doing so with a clear will to do so. They get no pass for their willful actions as if they can excuse their behavior with a casual "the devil made me do it" wave off.

Pray for the sinner and hate them with a holy hatred for He whom they are sinning against.

AMR

:thumb:
 

OCTOBER23

New member
LADIES,

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS.

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves:

for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
 

meshak

BANNED
Banned
LADIES,

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS.

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves:

for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Why are you addressing this to ladies? Why not gents too?
 

aikido7

BANNED
Banned
Everyone goes to the same place. It will either be the most amazing journey we will ever take or it will be absolutely nothing.
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
And again you seem to think sin exists as some substance "out there" or whatever as opposed to it being the consequence of evil in the heart of the one so sinning. Those that sin are doing so with a clear will to do so. They get no pass for their willful actions as if they can excuse their behavior with a casual "the devil made me do it" wave off.

Pray for the sinner and hate them with a holy hatred for He whom they are sinning against.

AMR

As God told Noah everyone has evil inclinations of the heart (Gen. 8:21). To follow those inclinations is sin. Unrepentant sinners do not get forgiven for their sins. I not agree with everyone that sins does so with a "clear will" to do so. Even in the OT they had sacrifices for those who did not know they had sinned. But once found out they repented.

I will not hate the sinner. If Jesus can forgive those who put Him on the cross from the cross. Who am I not to always forgive.

"Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing" (Luke 23:34).
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Do Christians find entertainment in anything besides what happens to the Jews in the afterlife?

Go watch a ball game. Or better yet- volunteer in a soup kitchen.

Son, Yeshua will not return until the Jews ask Him to. If that is sound nt doctrine then Israel is the center of the Christian's theology! Son!
 

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
Where did you get this idea, from a fortune cookie?

bc where did the saved go?

Sheol

Now where do the saved go?

Heaven

During the Messianic Kingdom where are the saved?

Here on earth

In the Eternal Order where are the saved?

Here on earth
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Nope! No one gets there without the righteousness of God upon them (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). The only way to "get it" (as they say) is to trust the Lord believing the why of the cross of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and it will be imputed (Romans 4:24-25 KJV).

Good thread!

Thats salvation by works, by what a person does, those Christ Lived and died for, by His sole act of obedience apart from any of theirs, were made Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats because the only requirement for righteousness to be imputed to them was Christ's Obedience !

You teach a false way of salvation !
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
LADIES,

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
We're already forgiven (Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV).
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Thats salvation by works, by what a person does, those Christ Lived and died for, by His sole act of obedience apart from any of theirs, were made Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats because the only requirement for righteousness to be imputed to them was Christ's Obedience !

You teach a false way of salvation !
The righteousness of God is unto all, but only UPON all them that believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). When was there ever a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV)?
 
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