I said
Water baptism is a public testimony of sanctification. The washing of water by the Word.
Jews And Gentiles Same Goal
- Thread starter Squeaky
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I said
Water baptism is a public testimony of sanctification. The washing of water by the Word.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I said
SANCTIFIED (THE WASHING OF WATER BY THE WORD)
Rev 1:5
5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
1 Cor 5:6-8
6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
John 14:23-24
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
John 10:1
1 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 15:14
14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
John 15:13
13 "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
Matt 12:36-37
36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.
37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."
Matt 26:28
28 "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Eph 5:26
26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word,
Heb 5:8-9
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
James 1:2-3
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
Heb 12:4
4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.
2 Cor 3:4-6
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God.
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God,
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Rom 8:1
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Heb 10:22
22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
John 7:38
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
II Th 2:1-2
1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
II Th 2:14
14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
II Th 3:1-3
1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may run swiftly and be glorified, just as it is with you,
2 and that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men; for not all have faith.
3 But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and guard you from the evil one.
II Th 3:5
5 Now may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God and into the patience of Christ.
1 Pet 1:1-2
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Heb 10:10
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Acts 20:32
32 "So now, brethren, I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
TAKE THE WORD LITERALLY
John 7:38
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
I Jn 3:3
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
xxxSanctified is the washing of water by the Word. Puting the verses in your belief system and pushing out your carnality. Jesus said that God gave Him a command of what to say and what to speak. Jesus gave us the Word to live by. And we are to live by the same Word He did. Every verse is a spiritual principle. The verses work just like our alphabet does. Move them around and say different things. This is the hidden language of the Holy Spirit. You have many reasons why you do what you do. When your reason for doing anything is a verse from the Holy Spirit you are sanctified.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
John 13:5-8
5 After that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.
6 Then He came to Simon Peter. And Peter said to Him, "Lord, are You washing my feet?"
7 Jesus answered and said to him, "What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this."
8 Peter said to Him, "You shall never wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
(NKJ)
Gal 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
(NKJ)
Rom 8:1-2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
(NKJ)
Rosenritter
New member
Romans 6:3-4 KJV
(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
(4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Acts 8:38-39 KJV
(38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
(39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV
(20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1. When one speaks of burial it usually means to fully cover or conceal within the grave.
2. If the eunuch was only to be sprinkled, they wouldn't have needed to find a source of water. Caravans always carried drinking water.
3. If the mass of water from Noah's flood doesn't signify a burial with total immersion then I'm not sure what greater illustration could be used to convey this concept.
| G907 βαπτίζω baptizō bap-tid'-zo From a derivative of G911; to make whelmed (that is, fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism: - baptist, baptize, wash. |
Rosenritter
New member
Isn't is just wonderful how you and Glory (etc) continue to create my own arguments and for me? It must be so much easier for you to argue this was way.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Where was the public when the eunuch was baptized with water (Acts 8:38)?
Besides that, today there is but "one baptism" (Eph.4:5) and that baptism is the one performed by the Holy Spirit:
"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
Right Divider
Body part
There is not a single drop of water in that passage.
Water is heavier than air. If you stand in water up to your ankles, you will still come up out of the water when you exit it.
Both Philip and the eunuch were Jews. One was a resident of a foreign land.... like many Jews.
The eunuch was studying one of the prophets of Israel. No surprises there.
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Right Divider
Body part
:yawn:
Rosenritter
New member
How did you manage to avoid the point of each of the two first passages, and ignore the third passage and the Greek definition entirely?
1. Romans 6 was for the purpose of the connection of the symbolism of baptism with burial. A sprinkling or anything other than a full covering does not symbolize burial.
2. If only a partial dampening with water was required, they would not have needed to stop to find other water, a cup of water would have sufficed. You don't travel long distances in a caravan without at least a cup of water.
3. The flood.
4. The word "Baptize" itself means Immersion.
Right Divider
Body part
There is NO water associated with burial. Being baptized into His death is about be identified with His death.
Baptism is about identification and not about dunking in water.
Israel had MANY baptisms in the Old Covenant and none of them involved dunking.
Rosenritter
New member
1. Burial involves earth. Baptism involves water.
2. The burial of earth is a total covering. The baptism of water is a total covering.
3. Baptism unto death is the like symbol of the burial of the old world by water in the days of Noah.
Given the the meaning of the transliterated word "baptize" means "to immerse" and the figure and symbolism we are given to explain its significance, it would seem that at this point you are arguing against the very text itself without the benefit of one certain statement to support your alternate view. Do you have a particular stake in wanting to redefine the word? Strong's says it means fully wet.
Regardless, considering the intended meaning and application of baptism, would you want to symbolize your death to sin and new birth in Christ in by any sort of half-way and less than total method? Is there a part of your flesh that you wish symbolized as keeping alive and not giving over to God?
Right Divider
Body part
So much confusion for you and the rest of Churchianity about baptism.
Show me the water in these verses:
Matt 20:22-23 (AKJV/PCE)
(20:22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (20:23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Six instances.... NOT A DROP OF WATER anywhere to be found.
Rosenritter
New member
Did you forget the baptism with which Jesus was baptized?
Matthew 3:13-16 KJV
(13) Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
(14) But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
(15) And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
(16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Obviously the figure of baptism carries a symbolic meaning, but the symbol itself was of water, and much more than a drop. Divider, you didn't answer my question of why you are arguing on this point. Would you go back and respond to the question-mark questions as if they weren't rhetorical?
Right Divider
Body part
So you can't answer, instead you attempt another DIVERSION. This is all too typical of you.
The correct answer is that there is NO WATER AT ALL in those two verses that use the term baptism (in a couple of forms) SIX TIMES.
So the Bible proves that baptism != water, unlike your earlier statement that baptism is water.
I do hope that you will believe the truth someday.
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Still, self-deluding yourself, huh? That's a shame. :yawn:
I said
yer's Greek Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS NT 908: βάπτισμα
βάπτισμα, βαπτίσματος, τό (βαπτίζω), a word peculiar to N. T. and ecclesiastical writings, immersion, submersion;
1. used tropically of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed: Matthew 20:22f Rec.; Mark 10:38; Luke 12:50 (see βαπτίζω, I. 3).
2. of John's baptism, that purificatory rite by which men on confessing their sins were bound to a spiritual reformation, obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah's kingdom soon to be set up: Matthew 3:7; Matthew 21:25; Mark 11:30; Luke 7:29; Luke 20:4; Acts 1:22; Acts 10:37; Acts 18:25; (Acts 19:3); βάπτισμα μετανοίας, binding to repentance (Winer's Grammar, 188 (177)), Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 13:24; Acts 19:4.
Rosenritter
New member
That is an absurd conjecture worthy of being listed in the examples of fallacious reasoning. The word baptism itself means to be plunged into water; and and it would be redundant (unnecessary) to say "with water" for each instance.
John 3:23 KJV
(23) And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.
Literal baptism requires water, as the internal definition in John 3:23 demonstrates. Regardless, even the metaphorical use of "baptized" such as when Israel was baptized by the cloud and the sea still draws upon (and proves) the original application which in the Greek means "made entirely wet in water."
I cannot say why you are arguing, or what you hope to gain or defend, but you aren't going to persuade me with such a nonsensical bombastic approach. This isn't leading to any sort of peace or promise of a sensible resolution, so I won't bother responding further. Take whatever last word (or words) that you wish. Maybe another "I do hope that you will learn the truth someday" might make you feel better.
Right Divider
Body part
That is hilarious considering the consistent use of fallacious reasoning by YOU!
You were just conclusively shown that the WORD baptism can be and is used, at times, without ANY water at all.
Matt 20:22-23 and the parallel Mark 10:38-39 use the WORD baptism in a context complete DEVOID of water or symbolism that includes water.
Sure... literal WATER baptism requires literal water. John the Baptizer was literally water baptizing ISRAEL.
Matt:20 and Mark 10 require NO WATER at all and make no symbolic link to water.Therefore, baptism IN THE BIBLE is NOT synonymous with water.
Being baptized into Christ's death requires NO WATER at all.
Israel remained completely DRY when they were baptized UNTO MOSES.The child of Israel walked upon DRY LAND in the midst of the sea.
The Bible is true; you are false.
Take a little time and look up what the "doctrine of baptisms" refers to in Hebrews 6:2. Water baptism was NOT new with J the B. It was part of Israel's law and was always sprinkling. J the B was not a dunker.
One Body-One Spirit-One Lord-One Faith-One Baptism.
I have heard some pretty stupid logic on the net. Let me share with you. One body-Christians. One Spirit-Holy Spirit(Ghost). One Faith, in Jesus. One Baptism. The Word speaks of two baptisms. Water baptism, and Spirit baptism. Satan has also got a counterifet out there for everything God created. Now it says that if you take the water baptism, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That is one baptism. Other places some received the Holy Spirit first, but they could not refuse the water baptism because they had the real Holy Spirit. Water baptism gives you the authority to repent and be forgiven, water baptism also saves you, water baptism is also for the remission of past sins. The Holy Spirit is to help keep you from committing future sins. There are a number of ways of receiving the Holy Spirit. By laying on of hands, but asking, and by water baptism. Water baptism seals the Holy Spirit in you. The Holy Spirit was in the old testament but He didnt stay with them. He wasnt sealed in them because they were not baptised into Jesus. , immersion, submersion; In water or in the Holy Spirit.
[Eph 4:4-6
4 [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
[Act 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[Act 10:45-48
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [have]?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
[2Co 1:22
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
[Eph 1:13
13 In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
[Eph 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
[Luk 11:13
13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
[Act 8:16-17
16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will be poured out on all flesh one day.
[Act 2:16-17
16 "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
[Act 2:18-22 NKJV] 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 21 And it shall come to pass [That] whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' 22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know--
I have heard some pretty stupid logic on the net. Let me share with you. One body-Christians. One Spirit-Holy Spirit(Ghost). One Faith, in Jesus. One Baptism. The Word speaks of two baptisms. Water baptism, and Spirit baptism. Satan has also got a counterifet out there for everything God created. Now it says that if you take the water baptism, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. That is one baptism. Other places some received the Holy Spirit first, but they could not refuse the water baptism because they had the real Holy Spirit. Water baptism gives you the authority to repent and be forgiven, water baptism also saves you, water baptism is also for the remission of past sins. The Holy Spirit is to help keep you from committing future sins. There are a number of ways of receiving the Holy Spirit. By laying on of hands, but asking, and by water baptism. Water baptism seals the Holy Spirit in you. The Holy Spirit was in the old testament but He didnt stay with them. He wasnt sealed in them because they were not baptised into Jesus. , immersion, submersion; In water or in the Holy Spirit.
[Eph 4:4-6
4 [There is] one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.
[Act 2:38
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[Act 10:45-48
45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered,
47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [have]?"
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
[2Co 1:22
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
[Eph 1:13
13 In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
[Eph 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
[Luk 11:13
13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"
[Act 8:16-17
16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit will be poured out on all flesh one day.
[Act 2:16-17
16 "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 'And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
[Act 2:18-22 NKJV] 18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. 19 I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 21 And it shall come to pass [That] whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.' 22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know--
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
We know that before a person could be baptized with water that person must first believe, as witnessed by the following exchange between Philip and the eunuch:
"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God" (Acts 8:36-37).
Before the eunuch was baptized with water he was already "born of God" because he believed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God:
"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God..For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1,4-5).
There can be no doubt that the eunuch received eternal life and was "born of God" before he was baptized with water so we can know that being baptized with water does not contribute in any way to anyone being saved.