Jews And Gentiles Same Goal

[Squeaky]

Even Billy Graham taught that the meaning of 'REPENT' is, "To change your mind."

I said
I think your missing the point. When one regrets doing something that in itself with cause them to change their mind. But who ever heard of changing your mind for no reason.

[2Co 7:8-11
[8] For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
[9] Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
[11] For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, [what] clearing [of yourselves], [what] indignation, [what] fear, [what] vehement desire, [what] zeal, [what] vindication! In all [things] you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

 

[Rosenritter]

I said
What I dont understand is how you got in a conversation like this. You know that repentance is for sin. I cant figure out how anyone would repent if there was no sin involved. Or Why?

Romans 3:9-10 KJV
(9) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Spoiler

Romans 3:27-28 KJV
(27) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(28) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(29) Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(30) Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(31) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Rosenritter]

You don't seem to see repentance apart from sin, so take it however you want.

No, you need to clarify so that you don't have room to accuse of "misrepresenting your words" later on please.

Please explain: "Repentance = Sin"

... or if that was an accidental misstatement I could understand that too.

 

[glorydaz]

No, you need to clarify so that you don't have room to accuse of "misrepresenting your words" later on please.

Please explain: "Repentance = Sin"

... or if that was an accidental misstatement I could understand that too.

I said YOU seem to equate repentance with sin, which means when you see the word repent, your mind leaps to sin like a dog on a juicy steak.

Remember, words have quite a range of meaning. They may well go beyond your personal narrow use of them.

consider (one thing) to be the same as or equivalent to another.
"customers equate their name with quality"
synonyms: identify, compare, liken, associate, connect, link, relate, class, bracket
"he equates criticism with treachery"

So, no, it is no accidental misstatement. I meant exactly what I said....SYNONYMS are great things. You should look into them before you get yourself all bent out of shape.

 

[glorydaz]

I said
We seem to see it backwards. God was going to destroy people lots of times and God relented. Changed His mind.
Where man must repent, regret every doing a thing.

Exodus 13:17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

 

[Squeaky]

Exodus 13:17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

I said
That is why I study the NKJV now.

[Exo 13:17 NKJV] [17] Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead them [by] way of the land of the Philistines, although that [was] near; for God said, "Lest perhaps the people change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt."

 

[Rosenritter]

I said YOU seem to equate repentance with sin, which means when you see the word repent, your mind leaps to sin like a dog on a juicy steak.

Remember, words have quite a range of meaning. They may well go beyond your personal narrow use of them.

consider (one thing) to be the same as or equivalent to another.
"customers equate their name with quality"
synonyms: identify, compare, liken, associate, connect, link, relate, class, bracket
"he equates criticism with treachery"

So, no, it is no accidental misstatement. I meant exactly what I said....SYNONYMS are great things. You should look into them before you get yourself all bent out of shape.

Glory, for the sake of intelligible communication, what you meant to say was: "Repentance => Sin" as in "the concept of repentance naturally suggests the nature of sin." The "=" sign literally means "equals" and even with your own "putting words in my mouth" demonstration above, your allegation was that one concept naturally led to another, not that they were synonyms or equal in any sense.

Regardless, it would be more accurate to say that for the Christian "sin" naturally leads to "death" but we are called to "repentance." Repentance does not lead back to sin, rather repentance leads forward to salvation, as illustrated by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

So the problem resolved here was two-fold:

1. You were using the "equals" sign incorrectly, which made it impossible to accurately assess your meaning,
2. You were misrepresenting my thought and beliefs, which makes it impossible to proceed in a constructive dialogue.

 

[Rosenritter]

I said
That is why I study the NKJV now.

[Exo 13:17 NKJV] [17] Then it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God did not lead them [by] way of the land of the Philistines, although that [was] near; for God said, "Lest perhaps the people change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt."

The term "change their minds" carries less of the intended meaning. One can change their minds for any reason or even no reason at all. When someone "repents" it is a specific type of change, usually with the connotation of recognizing some regret over the previous course that was changed from. I suppose you can switch to a different translation to get a different word, but you will also miss some of the sense of the passage.

H5162 נחם nâcham naw-kham' A primitive root; properly to sigh, that is, breathe strongly; by implication to be sorry, that is, (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself): - comfort (self), ease [one’s self], repent (-er, -ing, self).

Genesis 6:5-7 KJV
(5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
(7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The first instance of "repented" indicates that it is associated with "grievance of the heart." I think that if you surveyed instances of the word, you won't find an example where the "change" is made lacking a heartfelt emotional response and reason.

Exodus 32:13-14 KJV
(13) Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
(14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

"Repented" fits in a different way than a mere "change of mind." I "changed my mind about what I was to order at the cafe" but it would carry a different meaning if I "repented of what I was to order at the cafe." The former could be made on a mere whim, whereas the latter indicates that something far more serious was involved.

 

[Squeaky]

The term "change their minds" carries less of the intended meaning. One can change their minds for any reason or even no reason at all. When someone "repents" it is a specific type of change, usually with the connotation of recognizing some regret over the previous course that was changed from. I suppose you can switch to a different translation to get a different word, but you will also miss some of the sense of the passage.

H5162 נחם nâcham naw-kham' A primitive root; properly to sigh, that is, breathe strongly; by implication to be sorry, that is, (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself): - comfort (self), ease [one’s self], repent (-er, -ing, self).

Genesis 6:5-7 KJV
(5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
(7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

The first instance of "repented" indicates that it is associated with "grievance of the heart." I think that if you surveyed instances of the word, you won't find an example where the "change" is made lacking a heartfelt emotional response and reason.

Exodus 32:13-14 KJV
(13) Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, and they shall inherit it for ever.
(14) And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

"Repented" fits in a different way than a mere "change of mind." I "changed my mind about what I was to order at the cafe" but it would carry a different meaning if I "repented of what I was to order at the cafe." The former could be made on a mere whim, whereas the latter indicates that something far more serious was involved.

I said
That is why I relate all scripture about God to relent. Which is a change of mind.

 

[glorydaz]

Glory, for the sake of intelligible communication, what you meant to say was: "Repentance => Sin" as in "the concept of repentance naturally suggests the nature of sin." The "=" sign literally means "equals" and even with your own "putting words in my mouth" demonstration above, your allegation was that one concept naturally led to another, not that they were synonyms or equal in any sense.

Regardless, it would be more accurate to say that for the Christian "sin" naturally leads to "death" but we are called to "repentance." Repentance does not lead back to sin, rather repentance leads forward to salvation, as illustrated by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

So the problem resolved here was two-fold:

1. You were using the "equals" sign incorrectly, which made it impossible to accurately assess your meaning,
2. You were misrepresenting my thought and beliefs, which makes it impossible to proceed in a constructive dialogue.

Oh my Lord....say it isn't so. :doh:

 

[glorydaz]

I said YOU seem to equate repentance with sin, which means when you see the word repent, your mind leaps to sin like a dog on a juicy steak.

Remember, words have quite a range of meaning. They may well go beyond your personal narrow use of them.

consider (one thing) to be the same as or equivalent to another.
"customers equate their name with quality"
synonyms: identify, compare, liken, associate, connect, link, relate, class, bracket
"he equates criticism with treachery"

So, no, it is no accidental misstatement. I meant exactly what I said....SYNONYMS are great things. You should look into them before you get yourself all bent out of shape.

Oh my Lord....say it isn't so. :doh:

So, I'll repeat, and expect any normal person will be quite able to understand what I'm saying. :surf:


When a person who hears repent thinks "sin", or a person who hears "sin" thinks repent, they may have a problem that goes far beyond the obvious. :think:

 

[glorydaz]

I said
That is why I relate all scripture about God to relent. Which is a change of mind.

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance

You can't go wrong when you stick to the basic definition.

 

[steko]

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance

You can't go wrong when you stick to the basic definition.

Correct, 'meta' means 'after'.

'noia' comes from 'noos', which means 'mind'.

Thus, 'after mind'.

You're thinking something about a thing, afterwards you're thinking something different about the thing, so..... 'change of mind'.

 

[glorydaz]

Correct, 'meta' means 'after'.

'noia' comes from 'noos', which means 'mind'.

Thus, 'after mind'.

You're thinking something about a thing, afterwards you're thinking something different about the thing, so..... 'change of mind'.

:thumb:

I always think of what happens when you turn to the light from darkness. Now you can see what you hadn't seen before, and that alters your thinking entirely.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.​

There was no looking back at the darkness when I turned to the light. There were no strings attached. There was no call to recite my sins in order to receive that forgiveness which was so freely given. That is what the Gospel of Grace is all about. And this is what the Risen Lord sent Paul to preach.

 

[Squeaky]

Strong's Concordance
metanoia: change of mind, repentance
Original Word: μετάνοια, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metanoia
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an'-oy-ah)
Definition: change of mind, repentance

You can't go wrong when you stick to the basic definition.

I said
Relent-Change Your Mind Repent-Regret

[Mat 21:32 NKJV
[32] "For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw [it], you did not afterward relent and believe him.
[Heb 7:21 NKJV
[21] (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: "The LORD has sworn And will not relent, 'You [are] a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek' "),

[Mat 21:32 KJV
[32] For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
[Heb 7:21 KJV
[21] (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Old Testament

[Exo 32:14 NKJV]
[14] So the LORD relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people.
[2Sa 24:16 NKJV]
[16] And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.
[Psa 106:45 NKJV]
[45] And for their sake He remembered His covenant, And relented according to the multitude of His mercies.
[Jon 3:10 NKJV]
[10] Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

[Exo 32:14 KJV] [14] And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
[2Sa 24:16 KJV] [16] And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
[Psa 106:45 KJV] [45] And he remembered for them his covenant, and repented according to the multitude of his mercies.
[Jon 3:10 KJV] [10] And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did [it] not.


xxx There are two different reasons to relent. When God relented He changed His mind on what He was about to do, because of compassion.
When man repents he does it out of regret for what he has done. That brings on a change of mind, because of guilt.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

My question, Jerry, is what sinful lifestyle did the children of Israel have?

Here is how Peter described them:

"With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation" (Acts 2:40).​

What you are missing is the fact that the Jews who believed what Peter said at Acts 2:36 were saved the moment they believed that truth.

Then the "baptism of repentance" followed afterward (Acts 3:41).

So the repentance of the "baptism of repentance" was not in regard to changing one's mind about the fact that the Lord Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. Instead,it was in regard to changing their mind about their sinful lifestyle so that they could serve the Lord Jesus in holiness and righteousness.

 

[glorydaz]

xxx There are two different reasons to relent. When God relented He changed His mind on what He was about to do, because of compassion.

When man repents he does it out of regret for what he has done. That brings on a change of mind, because of guilt.

Did you believe because you felt guilty?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Glory, for the sake of intelligible communication, what you meant to say was: "Repentance => Sin" as in "the concept of repentance naturally suggests the nature of sin." The "=" sign literally means "equals" and even with your own "putting words in my mouth" demonstration above, your allegation was that one concept naturally led to another, not that they were synonyms or equal in any sense.

Regardless, it would be more accurate to say that for the Christian "sin" naturally leads to "death" but we are called to "repentance." Repentance does not lead back to sin, rather repentance leads forward to salvation, as illustrated by Paul in his letter to the Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV
(10) For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

So the problem resolved here was two-fold:

1. You were using the "equals" sign incorrectly, which made it impossible to accurately assess your meaning,
2. You were misrepresenting my thought and beliefs, which makes it impossible to proceed in a constructive dialogue.

Perhaps you need to find an 'MENSA' forum if you're that 'PICAYUNE?' Have you ever been diagnosed as suffering from OCD?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I said
I think your missing the point. When one regrets doing something that in itself with cause them to change their mind. But who ever heard of changing your mind for no reason.

[2Co 7:8-11
[8] For even if I made you sorry with my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it. For I perceive that the same epistle made you sorry, though only for a while.
[9] Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.
[10] For godly sorrow produces repentance [leading] to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
[11] For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, [what] clearing [of yourselves], [what] indignation, [what] fear, [what] vehement desire, [what] zeal, [what] vindication! In all [things] you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

:yawn:

 

[Squeaky]

Did you believe because you felt guilty?

I said
Believe what?