Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.

[Totton Linnet]

I don't care.

If she at one time trusted "Christ died for my sins," then the very moment she did, the Spirit right then and there sealed her in His Son "UNTIL" HIS "redemption of" HIS "PURCHASED POSSESION."

But that too often becomes quickly clouded over by the the Charismatic foolishness that is "FEELING," and that so many Churches confuse the issue with, and such that neither she nor anyone in her circle BEFORE the JWs had enough sense to address this FEELING nonsense does NOT void what THE SCRIPTURE ASSERTS HAPPENS THE MOMENT ONE TRUSTS "THAT CHRIST DIED FOR MY SINS..."

If so, then she IS saved BUT confused.

I went through all this with GT some time ago and it turned out that GT had believed that SHE HAD TO DO SOMETHING.

Til KR says different I will believe she is perhaps saved BUT confused.

There are categories to this that those who should know better NEVER emphasize.

The categories are...

Lost

Lost and confused

Saved but clueless about the Cross beyond Christ died for my sins.

Which CAN lead to...

Saved and confused...

Which CAN lead to ending up in the mess of confusion out there.

And then there is...

Saved and clear about the many details of the Cross - this is the purpose of Romans.

Which then puts one in a position to begin to learn about and become established in the Mystery (which has to with the purpose for salvation beyond having escaped the Lake of Fire).

That is the purpose of Ephesians.

Paul's other writings supporting the distinctions within those two.

What you say or what I say is not important....what KR says is important for by our words we are condemned and by our words we are justified. Her present stance is, her testimony

She is not saved
she is not born again
Christ does not abide in her
Christ is not God

What she does not say is that we are the whore of Babylon, Idolators because we worship Jesus Christ as God, that God will destroy us, that is what she believed from the Jw's same as shackles.

When jerzy was here he posted that God had raised up muslims to punish the Trins, all the beheading and raping even little children, and shackles was right there saying "Amen, thank you for this post brother"

That is what they believe

 

[Danoh]

Totten, you apparently believe salvation is not eternal but has to be maintained.

That does fit and or lead to the Post-Trib view you hold to.

Respectfully, we differ in each our respective understanding of these two issues.

In fact, it is the "once saved, never sure" confusion that ends up Blood bought saints in one "worker" camp or another.

Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

The best to you in this.

 

[Totton Linnet]

As ye have received Christ Jesus so walk ye in Him

THAT is where we differ, I hold more firmly in the everlastingness of eternal life than you ever will. for you are over polite to the point of gullibility.

Salvation is two things, it is the putting away of the old man and the putting on of the new Man which is Christ...as many as RECIEVED Him to them gave He power to become the sons of God.

Both KR and shackles have picked up some of the terminology of saved Christians, enough to be able to half say they are Christians, enough to fool people into allowing them to worm their way into the church, the sheepfold....then they begin their work of savaging the sheep.

Neither of them can look you in the eye and say outright

I AM SAVED, I HAVE BEEN BORN AGAIN, I HAVE RECIEVED CHRIST, CHRIST ABIDES IN ME.

Do you know why?....you are very clever [and I do not dislike you . I LIKE you ] do you know why they can never say these things?

Because then they could no longer attack the church for they themselves would be the church...quite apart that is from the fact that these things have never happened to them.

 

[Jacob]

I gave you scripture that tells us we have a new law.

If another earthly temple is made, it will be a disgrace, for we are the temple. If a temple is made, there will be people wanting to uphold the old law.

Isaiah 66:3 But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig's blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations;

I'm not seeing the words "new law". As for the verse you have presented here, I would need time which you may not allow me. I don't know if you are willing to converse about all of scripture with me. Maybe that is all we can say right now. I am not necessarily looking for you to converse with me. The point is we must accept all of scripture. Thank you for bringing up this verse.

I disagree with your interpretation of this verse. Perhaps with time you will have a change of heart. Some things I don't understand. But here I can see the possibility that there was fault on the part of the individual, consistent with my view that God's Law is not wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

I disagree with your interpretation of this verse. Perhaps with time you will have a change of heart. Some things I don't understand. But here I can see the possibility that there was fault on the part of the individual, consistent with my view that God's Law is not wrong.

So then, you are for the Jews building another earthly temple and sacrificing animals?

By the way, your little put down are not from a good place.

 

[Jacob]

I gave you scripture that tells us we have a new law.

If another earthly temple is made, it will be a disgrace, for we are the temple. If a temple is made, there will be people wanting to uphold the old law.

Isaiah 66:3 But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog's neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig's blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations;

I'm not seeing the words "new law". As for the verse you have presented here, I would need time which you may not allow me. I don't know if you are willing to converse about all of scripture with me. Maybe that is all we can say right now. I am not necessarily looking for you to converse with me. The point is we must accept all of scripture. Thank you for bringing up this verse.

So then, you are for the Jews building another earthly temple and sacrificing animals?

By the way, your little put down are not from a good place.

I don't see how you believe I am giving you any put down. I don't even have a little put down for you. It is not my practice to put people down. I don't know what you are saying. Are you saying you are a man? If you are, I apologize. Obviously I am a man, so the question of if I can teach can be open for discussion.

You want to know about sacrifice in the temple. Currently there is no temple. According to the Law sacrifice can only be done in the temple.

Leviticus 17:1-6 NASB - 1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, 'This is what the LORD has commanded, saying, 3 "Any man from the house of Israel who slaughters an ox or a lamb or a goat in the camp, or who slaughters it outside the camp, 4 and has not brought it to the doorway of the tent of meeting to present it as an offering to the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD, bloodguiltiness is to be reckoned to that man. He has shed blood and that man shall be cut off from among his people. 5 "The reason is so that the sons of Israel may bring their sacrifices which they were sacrificing in the open field, that they may bring them in to the LORD, at the doorway of the tent of meeting to the priest, and sacrifice them as sacrifices of peace offerings to the LORD. 6 "The priest shall sprinkle the blood on the altar of the LORD at the doorway of the tent of meeting, and offer up the fat in smoke as a soothing aroma to the LORD.

Deuteronomy 12:5-7 NASB - 5 "But you shall seek the LORD at the place which the LORD your God will choose from all your tribes, to establish His name there for His dwelling, and there you shall come. 6 "There you shall bring your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the contribution of your hand, your votive offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herd and of your flock. 7 "There also you and your households shall eat before the LORD your God, and rejoice in all your undertakings in which the LORD your God has blessed you.

You do want an answer to your question. I feel that this is all I can give you at this time, not because I am withholding anything, but because the prospect of a future temple is for me born out in the book of Ezekiel the prophet... contingent upon if a future temple, a temple future to the second temple which was destroyed, was here prophesied. The premise is that God's word cannot fail. The argument is that this temple has not yet come to be, and that it will come to be even if the promise was conditional in the past. Of course, God would know the exact timing of this. If there will be a future temple, future to now, then the only question about the past would be if there was a time when it could have been, contingent or conditional upon Israel's obedience.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't see how you believe I am giving you any put down. I don't even have a little put down for you. It is not my practice to put people down. I don't know what you are saying. Are you saying you are a man? If you are, I apologize. Obviously I am a man, so the question of if I can teach can be open for discussion.

You want to know about sacrifice in the temple. Currently there is no temple. According to the Law sacrifice can only be done in the temple.

Leviticus 17:1-6 NASB - 1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to Aaron and to his sons and to all the sons of Israel and say to them, 'This is what the LORD has commanded, saying, 3 "Any man from the house of Israel who slaughters an ox or a lamb or a goat in the camp, or who slaughters it outside the camp, 4 and has not brought it to the doorway of the tent of meeting to present it as an offering to the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD, bloodguiltiness is to be reckoned to that man. He has shed blood and that man shall be cut off from among his people. 5 "The reason is so that the sons of Israel may bring their sacrifices which they were sacrificing in the open field, that they may bring them in to the LORD, at the doorway of the tent of meeting to the priest, and sacrifice them as sacrifices of peace offerings to the LORD. 6 "The priest shall sprinkle the blood on the altar of the LORD at the doorway of the tent of meeting, and offer up the fat in smoke as a soothing aroma to the LORD.

Deuteronomy 12:5-7 NASB - 5 "But you shall seek the LORD at the place which the LORD your God will choose from all your tribes, to establish His name there for His dwelling, and there you shall come. 6 "There you shall bring your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the contribution of your hand, your votive offerings, your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herd and of your flock. 7 "There also you and your households shall eat before the LORD your God, and rejoice in all your undertakings in which the LORD your God has blessed you.

You do want an answer to your question. I feel that this is all I can give you at this time, not because I am withholding anything, but because the prospect of a future temple is for me born out in the book of Ezekiel the prophet... contingent upon if a future temple, a temple future to the second temple which was destroyed, was here prophesied. The premise is that God's word cannot fail. The argument is that this temple has not yet come to be, and that it will come to be even if the promise was conditional in the past. Of course, God would know the exact timing of this. If there will be a future temple, future to now, then the only question about the past would be if there was a time when it could have been, contingent or conditional upon Israel's obedience.

Jesus IS THE TEMPLE.

It is blasphemy to make another building and call it God's temple.

You do put me down.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I don't see how you believe I am giving you any put down. I don't even have a little put down for you. It is not my practice to put people down. I don't know what you are saying. Are you saying you are a man? If you are, I apologize. Obviously I am a man, so the question of if I can teach can be open for discussion.

Don't be concerned about GT. She just causes a lot of trouble around here. She's a BIG pain in the neck. She argues with everybody and doesn't even know what she's talking about. That's her life in a nutshell.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is the temple of God. Jesus puts us in him, so that he can put us in God.

When we are saved, we are given the Spirit of God, we become the temple.

So then, we are seated in heaven with Christ, and Christ lives in our hearts here on earth.

Revelation 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

This teaching is from the Holy Bible.

1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

GT, you never agree with anyone. You must really love your chaotic life.

 

[Jacob]

Jesus IS THE TEMPLE.

It is blasphemy to make another building and call it God's temple.

You do put me down.

If you feel I have put you down, I am sorry. But I can't dwell on it either. I must continue to do my best in regard to Biblical truth and sharing the gospel of Christ crucified for sinners.

As for the temple, Jesus was speaking of His body. But there was a temple when He said it. Separate from this Jesus predicted, or prophesied, that the temple would be destroyed. And in AD 70 it was.

John 2:18-21 NASB - 18 The Jews then said to Him, "What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?" 19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?" 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.

 

[Jacob]

Jesus is the temple of God. Jesus puts us in him, so that he can put us in God.

When we are saved, we are given the Spirit of God, we become the temple.

So then, we are seated in heaven with Christ, and Christ lives in our hearts here on earth.

Revelation 21:22 I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

John 2:19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

This teaching is from the Holy Bible.

1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;

1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Do you believe Revelation 21:22 has already come to pass? For me, that is the question.

I view the Law and the prospect or potentiality of a future temple as separate subjects or topics. But in the case of the temple, the Law cannot be ignored. In the case of the Law, it's place in the life of the believer was something I had to deal with as a Christian. There are Jewish believers, new covenant believers, who observe the Law and there are those who do not.

 

[Danoh]

So then, you are for the Jews building another earthly temple and sacrificing animals?

By the way, your little put down are not from a good place.

THIS...is yet FUTURE:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

What, pray, tell; do you think that "gift" and "alter" are a reference to?

That is a rhetorical question.

A rhetorical question is not asking for an answer, rather; it is affirming the answer it is implying...as being a given.

And if you haven't a clue what I just said, then YOU have no business telling someone else your off-based notion about Millennial Temple animal sacrifices.

Problem with Jacob is that he keeps running smack into the obvious that you and he both have failed miserably in the understanding, and thus, in the denial of...

Dispensationalism.

 

[Jacob]

And if you haven't a clue what I just said, then YOU have no business telling someone else your off-based notion about Millennial Temple animal sacrifices.

Problem with Jacob is that he keeps running smack into the obvious that you and he both have failed miserably in the understanding, and thus, in the denial of...

Dispensationalism.

I'm not sure what you are talking about. If there is a future temple I do not know when it will be.

 

[Danoh]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. If there is a future temple I do not know when it will be.

Respectfully, I am well aware you are not sure what I am talking about.

How can you, you are tossed to and fro between a mainstream "Church" and a "Messianic" one; neither of which is consciously aware of the necessarily Dispensational aspects of some of each's respective teachings.

But, you have refused literature on the matter. It is what it is. It is what you continue to leave yourself susceptible to.

Fact is...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Fact is, concerning Paul and thus, his Pauline Dispensationalism, that "a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" 1 Cor. 9:17.

That being...

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,

Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. 15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

 

[Nihilo]

Respectfully, I am well aware you are not sure what I am talking about.

How can you, you are tossed to and fro between a mainstream "Church" and a "Messianic" one; neither of which is consciously aware of the necessarily Dispensational aspects of some of each's respective teachings.

But, you have refused literature on the matter. It is what it is. It is what you continue to leave yourself susceptible to.

Fact is...

1 Corinthians 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

This is just saying that we ought to consider Paul's opus Sacred Scripture, which we all do. Except for Meshak.

Fact is, concerning Paul and thus, his Pauline Dispensationalism, that "a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" 1 Cor. 9:17.

You know it's radically weak to post the verse in something other than the KJV right? Right? The word isn't in that reftag. The reftag has "stewardship," which means that "dispentsationalism" is ipso facto prima facie self-nullifying, since it doesn't even appear in every version of the Bible. John 3:16, for example, in whatever translation/rendering, always has some form of the Maker in the verse. "For God so loved..." "God/G-d" the Maker, IOW. GOD.

GOD is YHWH.

YHWH is GOD/G-D.

If there is a Maker, then YHWH is the Most Holy and Most Blessed and Undivided Trinity. Because if there is a Maker, then the Holy Catholic Church is His. It's obvious.

 

[Danoh]

Luke 12:42 K-J-V "And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?"

Lol - now sit down, N

 

[Nihilo]

Luke 12:42 K-J-V "And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?"

Lol - now sit down, N

All right, you got me. Good one.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you believe Revelation 21:22 has already come to pass? For me, that is the question.

I view the Law and the prospect or potentiality of a future temple as separate subjects or topics. But in the case of the temple, the Law cannot be ignored. In the case of the Law, it's place in the life of the believer was something I had to deal with as a Christian. There are Jewish believers, new covenant believers, who observe the Law and there are those who do not.

I gave you scriptures that say it already happened! Jesus calls himself the temple WHEN HE WALKED THE EARTH.

No one observes the old law.

It is blasphemy to build an earthly temple and sacrifice animals to God.

Jesus is the sacrifice once and for all.

 

[God's Truth]

THIS...is yet FUTURE:

I gave you scripture that shows it already happened. Jesus says he is the temple, and he said it WHILE he walked the earth.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

What, pray, tell; do you think that "gift" and "alter" are a reference to?

That is a rhetorical question.

A rhetorical question is not asking for an answer, rather; it is affirming the answer it is implying...as being a given.

And if you haven't a clue what I just said, then YOU have no business telling someone else your off-based notion about Millennial Temple animal sacrifices.

Problem with Jacob is that he keeps running smack into the obvious that you and he both have failed miserably in the understanding, and thus, in the denial of...

Dispensationalism.

All you have are denials and insults.

Read the scriptures I gave and believe the truth.

You do not even respect Jesus Christ, for you say he did NOT accomplish what he came to do!

Read the scriptures you gave.

Then read your ridiculous notion that Jesus failed.

Jesus said he came to FULFILL, and that is what he did.