The problem KR has is that we are a few of the BILLIONS who testify that we have been saved, that we have been born again....they are not just doctrines to learn but we have them now every day in our experience.
Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
KingdomRose
New member
OK, if you so desire. You know, much of what is understood by a poster here depends on what they WANT to see. If you think I'm being malicious, that is what you will see every time you read anything I write. I just want to be fair and I hope others will be also.
KingdomRose
New member
Are you referring to your post #995? I would address the scripture if you would say where it is. That would be a common courtesy.
KingdomRose
New member
Where?
KingdomRose
New member
I have been defending my beliefs scripturally, since I have joined this forum. I know that I have broken a rule by calling what you wrote DOLTISH & BLOCKHEADED, and I will probably get written up for it, but I had to say it. God does not deserve such a messed-up reference to Himself as what you wrote. Before you throw any more stones at me, consider that you have been insulting me as well. Shall I report YOU and Grosnick Marowbe every time you guys insult me?
KingdomRose
New member
Yes, Christ was resurrected from the dead.
True, we deny that Jesus is God, because he never said he was; in fact he denied it.
We do not deny that salvation is by grace through faith. Please pay closer attention to what I post.
KingdomRose
New member
Yes, I believed that Christ died for my sins, and I believed that he rose again after three days, then went back to heaven.
But here you fall short
You do not abide in Him and HE does not abide in you.....that is your testimony
As in "the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the HIDDEN wisdom..."
Notice who was/is in the "hidden" doctrine cult or or club, and who was/is without, or outside:
1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
My point is that the world has turned these original meanings upside down.
What do you think is wrong with Meshak, GT, Jacob, et al?
They are NOT - notice Paul's seeming "cult" like language "among them that are perfect."
There is the Cross of Christ that Paul was talking about earlier. Its basics need to be understood throughly.
And then there is the advanced "club" that is The Mystery and IT had remained A Mystery to the Corinthians for their failure to get the Cross right.
1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
In fact, those who are also divisive (this person is on my list, that one is not) are also said to have failed to have understood these two distinctions:
1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
This is why I want no part of the "that's not for us!!!!" gang.
Theirs is the use of this glorious truth to demean any one who refuses the "cult" they have turned it into.
Who in their right mind would want to be a part of such a consistent hypocrisy?
KingdomRose
New member
It is very difficult to discuss something with someone who rejects out-of-hand every scripture I post. There are dozens of scriptures that show clearly that Jesus is subordinate to God (whether he is in heaven or on Earth), yet you go back to some unclear statement that could be taken more than one way, to defend your point.
There is no scripture that states that Jesus always existed. In fact, there are a few that state that he had a beginning. But, alas, you will completely twist the clear meanings of these verses and say that they do not mean what they say. The early church fathers knew that they say exactly what I have been saying that they say.
(1) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only BEGOTTEN Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16, KJV)
"Begotten" means brought into existence; given life that he didn't have before.
(2) "No man hath seen God at any time; the only BEGOTTEN Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (John 1:18, KJV)
(3) "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son; in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins; who is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRST-BORN OF EVERY CREATURE." (Colossians 1:13-15, KJV)
"First-born" means the first to be born, or, brought into existence. He is in the category of a "creature," being the first one of those to be born. A creature is something created. The early church fathers recognized this and set about to try and twist it around so that no one would see the truth. They did a good job....teaching people that "first-born" and "creature" are terms that don't mean what we usually say they mean!
(4) "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD." (Revelation 3:14, KJV)
I find this very clear. A person may counter with "scriptures say that he created all things, so that leaves him out as a creation," but isn't it just reasonable to concede that he created all things AFTER he was brought into existence by God? He is the ONLY thing created by God alone (thus, the "only begotten Son"). Then he created all other things.
If so, then this happened.
Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Meaning you just might be saved, but ended up confused by the Watch Tower's version of that AFTER you "were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise..."
I always try to get that clear. Everyone else just goes on the attack. Some of them simply caught up in proving others wrong as its own glory.
Anyway, if you did believe what you have just posted then you are in God's family. You are, in my book, just confused about the rest.
I say that with compassion not in scorn.
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
The best to you in this - once in, ever in.
KingdomRose
New member
Let me get this straight. You are saying that the scriptures from Isaiah and Daniel are the "teachings and surmising of MEN"? So you disagree with Jesus himself who called the Old Testament "God's Word of truth"?
You are saying that Daniel's prophecy means nothing? Isaiah's prophecy is meaningless?
:jawdrop:
*
We deny nothing, we do not deny that He was and is man, we do not deny that during His earthly life He submitted to the Father.
Your problem is that you DO deny those scriptures which say He is God the Creator, That He was with God, that He was God, that He made all things, that He was equal with God. That He shared God's glory before the world was founded, that He has gone back and received this same glory back.
I hold that Jesus Christ is created....He is the visible creation of the invisible God...He is God.
He was in the world and the world was made by Him but the world knew Him not
That's YOU you are the world.
Daniel got it right, Isaiah got it right...YOU got it wrong, there IS a coming earthly reign, Christ's kingdom. there will be the earthly part and the heavenly part....those who follow Christ in the regeneration are the heavenly part that is NOW....but you reject the regeneration, the new birth, you also reject the kingdom for the church IS that kingdom, the heavenly part.
So how do you suppose that when you die you will inherit what you now reject?
Nay you do more, for you hate the kingdom, the church, you say she is the whore of Babylon and God will destroy her.
KingdomRose
New member
No, not at all. I never had any anointing by the Holy Spirit. I never felt that I was destined to rule with Christ. I'm happy to stay here on Earth and enjoy Jehovah's awesome provisions for eternal life HERE.
They are NOT JohnW's followers. They agree with each other about how to deal with those they disagree with.
JohnW and they do not hold to every distinction in the same way - they are NOT his followers.
And there is a HUGE difference between being "Biblical" and being Dispensational.
You, GT, Jacob, and KR, are each being "Biblical" in each your way.
None of you are being Dispensational, however.
You each have learned, or have been taught, or figured out each your version of "one size fits all" that you each refer to as being "Biblical."
Because none of you are Dispensational; especially you.
GT and Jacob at least see some things are no longer.
I doubt you do. You strike me as someone who reads without any attempt at discerment beyond "ooo, I'm reading about Jesus..."
I don't mean that in a demeaning way. It is an observation, not a put down.
Yours appears a simple faith in God, but one without much understanding or attempt to.
Respectfully,
Just say this aloud "Christ does not abide in me"
Of course you never felt that. Faith is NOT a feeling.
Faith is "this is what this says. I don't feel this or that, but this is what this says. Period."
Faith simply believes the following passage about what faith results in...
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Whether or not one "feels" it or not is NOT the issue.
You want His creation but you do not want Him....He is far away in heaven, you want to enjoy His reign, but you will not have Him reign IN YOU.
Good assessment of Meshak.