Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.

[God's Truth]

And the new covenant is not like the old. But, in what way? This in no way changes the Law.

The New Covenant is the OLD Covenant with some changes.


Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.


Jesus is our new priest, our HIGH PRIEST.

 

[Jacob]

What would choosing to do this do for the believer that has not already been done for him in Christ?

How would choosing to do this impress God more than He is impressed by the work of the Son on the believer's behalf?

It has nothing to do with impressing God. I guess you don't understand that.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 NASB - 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

 

[God's Truth]

There is nothing wrong with being clean. Do you believe there is any indication that to be clean saves anyone? It is good, but it does not save.

Are you kidding? God was going to kill Moses because he did not circumcise his son.

One HAD TO MAKE THEMSELVES CLEAN.

We STILL have to be made clean, to worship God, except only faith in the blood of Jesus makes us clean, NOT DIETS AND VARIOUS WASHINGS. For if we had to wash ourselves BEFORE worshiping God---how is it that God LIVES INSIDE YOUR HEART ALL DAY EVERYDAY?

 

[Jacob]

You say "true" when I say there is a New Covenant; however, you fail to realize that a NEW COVENANT means the OLD is obsolete.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


The old has faded completely away when the temple was destroyed.

The writer of Hebrews was quoting from Jeremiah, in mentioning the new covenant. Is the writer of Hebrews saying it was then sometime going to become obsolete, or was it sometime going to become obsolete when the writer of Hebrews wrote it? Because, the Law is eternal as I understand it.

 

[God's Truth]

A person can become a Jew by observing all of God's Law.

Not by the OLD LAW. There is no way a Jew outside of Christ is obeying God, nor can they.

Everyone must come to God through blood, and not the blood of animals, only by the Lamb of God.

 

[musterion]

It has nothing to do with impressing God. I guess you don't understand that.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21 NASB - 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

So you -- a Gentile -- are keeping certain aspects of the Law in order to win those who are under the Law?

 

[God's Truth]

The writer of Hebrews was quoting from Jeremiah, in mentioning the new covenant. Is the writer of Hebrews saying it was then sometime going to become obsolete, or was it sometime going to become obsolete when the writer of Hebrews wrote it? Because, the Law is eternal as I understand it.

Jeremiah spoke of what would happen, and Hebrews speaks of the prophecies of the Old Testament REVEALED.

 

[Jacob]

The New Covenant is the OLD Covenant with some changes.


Hebrews 7:12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.


Jesus is our new priest, our HIGH PRIEST.

The priesthood being changed to Jesus. But, what is the change of law?

See the thread, Change of law.

 

[God's Truth]

Jacob, be careful of those who preach faith alone. Faith in Christ's blood cleans us, but WE STILL HAVE TO OBEY GOD; we just no longer have to do certain things of the old law, like get circumcised and observe special days.

Jesus saves us all on his own; he CHOOSE whom he saves. Whom does Jesus save? Jesus save those that OBEY HIM.

We just do not have to obey SHADOWS anymore.

The shadow was of Jesus.

A shadow comes before a man when the light is behind him.

The shadow is of Jesus Christ.

No one has to obey a shadow anymore, because in Christ there are no shadows, only light.

All those laws you still obey are just teachings tools, a shadow of WHAT WAS COMING. Jesus came.

 

[Jacob]

Are you kidding? God was going to kill Moses because he did not circumcise his son.

One HAD TO MAKE THEMSELVES CLEAN.

We STILL have to be made clean, to worship God, except only faith in the blood of Jesus makes us clean, NOT DIETS AND VARIOUS WASHINGS. For if we had to wash ourselves BEFORE worshiping God---how is it that God LIVES INSIDE YOUR HEART ALL DAY EVERYDAY?

Again, there is nothing wrong with being clean. You don't understand that. But I am not saying I know what things make a person clean. What I am saying is that no one can take away from God's commands. God's commands are God's commands. If a Gentile observes what is required of him, that is what is required of him. There is no reason a Gentile cannot be clean. But, the question is if the Gentile is a part of God's family, the church, the body of Christ. It is then that full fellowship exists, with no additional requirements. See Acts 15.

 

[Jacob]

Not by the OLD LAW. There is no way a Jew outside of Christ is obeying God, nor can they.

Everyone must come to God through blood, and not the blood of animals, only by the Lamb of God.

Salvation is found in Jesus Christ. It is for Jew and Gentile.

 

[Jacob]

So you -- a Gentile -- are keeping certain aspects of the Law in order to win those who are under the Law?

I have identified as Jewish, though I was born a Gentile and first became a Christian. I am still a Christian.

 

[Jacob]

Jeremiah spoke of what would happen, and Hebrews speaks of the prophecies of the Old Testament REVEALED.

I understand that is your perspective. When do you believe these things will become obsolete? Do you differentiate between the old covenant and old covenant law?

 

[God's Truth]

Because. I am not saved by so doing. But I am thankful for God's commands. It is not about being better than others. It is not about justifying one's self. I am simply acknowledging that I do, which is different for some people.

They are worthless things which cause people to fall from grace.

 

[Jacob]

Jacob, be careful of those who preach faith alone. Faith in Christ's blood cleans us, but WE STILL HAVE TO OBEY GOD; we just no longer have to do certain things of the old law, like get circumcised and observe special days.

Jesus saves us all on his own; he CHOOSE whom he saves. Whom does Jesus save? Jesus save those that OBEY HIM.

We just do not have to obey SHADOWS anymore.

The shadow was of Jesus.

A shadow comes before a man when the light is behind him.

The shadow is of Jesus Christ.

No one has to obey a shadow anymore, because in Christ there are no shadows, only light.

All those laws you still obey are just teachings tools, a shadow of WHAT WAS COMING. Jesus came.

It's not that I still obey them having come to the new covenant, it is that I obey them after having become a Christian. I became a Christian at about 5 years old.

 

[musterion]

I have identified as Jewish, though I was born a Gentile and first became a Christian. I am still a Christian.

In Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile. You know that's what Paul taught.

But you didn't answer the question. Are you keeping aspects of Law in order to reach those under Law? That's what you quoted from Paul. Is that the point?

 

[Jacob]

They are worthless things which cause people to fall from grace.

It is possible to fall from grace. Obeying God's commands is not how to fall from grace. Neither is choosing to sin. God's grace is not a license for sin. Beware of licentiousness. God's grace is God's grace.

Romans 5:20 NASB - 20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Romans 6:14-15 NASB - 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

 

[God's Truth]

Again, there is nothing wrong with being clean. You don't understand that. But I am not saying I know what things make a person clean. What I am saying is that no one can take away from God's commands. God's commands are God's commands. If a Gentile observes what is required of him, that is what is required of him. There is no reason a Gentile cannot be clean. But, the question is if the Gentile is a part of God's family, the church, the body of Christ. It is then that full fellowship exists, with no additional requirements. See Acts 15.

You are failing to see what is going on.

Those old laws to make one's self clean---those things were commanded by God.

Those things were just a SHADOW, a TEACHING TOOL.

Those things were about JESUS.

Observing special days is now worthless, because those special days were about Jesus. Since Jesus came, we observe HIM all day everyday.

Circumcision was a teaching tool; it is now mutilation of the flesh, because only circumcision of the heart is all that matters, and it is done by the Holy Spirit, when we are saved and given the Holy Spirit that cleans us and seals us with God.

 

[meshak]

Do you believe Jews and Gentiles alike should obey Jesus?

Absolutely. Jesus is for everyone who trust Him or believe in Him.

 

[God's Truth]

It is possible to fall from grace. Obeying God's commands is not how to fall from grace. Neither is choosing to sin. God's grace is not a license for sin. Beware of licentiousness. God's grace is God's grace.

You are going against God's written Word when you say it is not possible to fall from grace.

Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.