Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.

[Jacob]

Are you kidding, they were saved by believing in Christ but then they were talked into observing special days and getting circumcised.

They were confused. Were they Jews or Gentiles, and they were or were not keeping Jewish festivals. To be in Christ it is not required to observe Jewish festivals. That is my belief.

 

[musterion]

As a Christian I wanted to know if I should obey New Testament commands. I was told I was a legalist. I discovered that I could not obtain a true knowledge of God, at least not as I desired, but only studying the New Testament. But I still believe a person can be saved by the New Testament or even not by reading scripture at all, and that we should obey all the commands that we can obey in the New Testament. Acts 15 is a good place for a new believer to start. But salvation is not by works at all. Still, we are to obey God. This is what I discovered.

Last question, and please be honest.

Are you, as a Jew/Christian, actually and in reality closer to God than a believer who simply stands in Christ without the slightest regard to Law?

I must ask because you did say keeping Law can bring one "closer to God," and you say it has done this for you. We either are, or we are not.

So are you actually closer to God via Law, or only believe yourself closer to Him via Law?

Paul says the believer is dead to Law for more than one reason.

 

[Jacob]

You quoted a scripture of Paul explaining how circumcision is worthless.

Not worthless. Just not required.

Romans 2:25-26 NASB - 25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

1 Corinthians 7:19 NASB - 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 5:6 NASB - 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Galatians 6:15 NASB - 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

Ephesians 2:11 NASB - 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called "Uncircumcision" by the so-called "Circumcision," which is performed in the flesh by human hands--

 

[Jacob]

James was speaking of the ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Love is not harming your neighbor that is how we love our neighbors, we do no harm to them.

If you do not harm your neighbor by not murdering your neighbor, it is good and you have obeyed a commandment of do not murder.

If you do not harm your neighbor by committing adultery with your neighbor's wife, then you have obeyed another commandment.

If you do not harm your neighbor so you do not bear false witness against your neighbor, you have done right and obeyed yet another command.

If you STEAL from your neighbor, you have HARMED your neighbor, AND NOW YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING THE WHOLE ROYAL LAW OF LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Do you understand now? Please study what I said so that we can truly debate.

I agree with what you have said here.

 

[God's Truth]

There are many covenants in the Bible. The covenant God made with the nation of Israel through the prophet Moses is the old covenant now, because there is a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Gentiles who have become believers are grafted in.

The old law was NOT based on faith. The Jews HAD TO OBEY the old law. There were Jews that had faith and obeyed; and, there were Jews who did NOT have faith, yet still obeyed the regulations of the old law.

God CUT OFF the Jews that did not have faith in Him before Jesus came.

No longer does it matter to whom we are blood related.

John 1:13 children born not of natural descent,

 

[God's Truth]

I agree with what you have said here.

I am so glad to hear that.

 

[Jacob]

Last question, and please be honest.

Are you, as a Jew/Christian, actually and in reality closer to God than a believer who simply stands in Christ without the slightest regard to Law?

I must ask because you did say keeping Law can bring one "closer to God," and you say it has done this for you. We either are, or we are not.

So are you actually closer to God via Law, or only believe yourself closer to Him via Law?

Paul says the believer is dead to Law for more than one reason.

I am still learning. But, though I believe that everyone who is truly in relationship with God and Jesus Christ has salvation by faith by the blood of Jesus, having been washed and regenerated by the Holy Spirit, though everyone's walk may be different in some way (in one way of looking at it). That is, we not only walk differently as believers, though all by faith, but our experiences and the things we know and have learned are different. The convictions a person has as a Christian may be different from the next Christian. But that does not mean he is less or more of a Christian.

For example,

Romans 14:2 NASB - 2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

Romans 14:5 NASB - 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

 

[God's Truth]

Not worthless. Just not required.

It is worthless.

Galatians 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain,

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value.

 

[Jacob]

The old law was NOT based on faith. The Jews HAD TO OBEY the old law. There were Jews that had faith and obeyed; and, there were Jews who did NOT have faith, yet still obeyed the regulations of the old law.

God CUT OFF the Jews that did not have faith in Him before Jesus came.

No longer does it matter to whom we are blood related.

John 1:13 children born not of natural descent,

It still matters if a person has faith. This is where eternal security, once saved always saved, being sealed in accordance with the Holy Spirit dwelling in each believer by faith, and the discussion of it someone can lose their salvation. Some point out if a person does not have faith or is not saved they were never saved to begin with.

Romans 11:20-24 NASB - 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

[God's Truth]

They were confused. Were they Jews or Gentiles, and they were or were not keeping Jewish festivals. To be in Christ it is not required to observe Jewish festivals. That is my belief.

They fell from grace because they started to observe special days and to get circumcised.

Paul had to save them all over again by forming Christ in them, again.

Galatians 4:19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

 

[Jacob]

It is worthless.

Galatians 4:9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain,

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value.

Can a person in Christ become an Israelite or believe in Yeshua as the Messiah according to Judaism?

Worthless can mean has no value. But,

Romans 2:25 NASB - 25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

 

[Jacob]

They fell from grace because they started to observe special days and to get circumcised.

Paul had to save them all over again by forming Christ in them, again.

Galatians 4:19 My dear children, for whom I am again in the pains of childbirth until Christ is formed in you,

I am not sure of the validity or full validity of what you are saying.

 

[God's Truth]

Can a person in Christ become an Israelite or believe in Yeshua as the Messiah according to Judaism?

Do all those from Judaism have faith in Jesus? NO.

All saved become Israel.

Worthless can mean has no value. But,

Romans 2:25 NASB - 25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.

The temple is GONE, and NO ONE can practice the old law.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not sure of the validity or full validity of what you are saying.

Just believe what is plainly written. The SCRIPTURE SAYS Paul had to form Christ in them AGAIN.

If they had Christ in them that means they were saved.

If they had to have Christ formed in them again, then that means they no longer had Christ in them.

If one no longer has Christ in them, are they saved?

 

[Jacob]

Do all those from Judaism have faith in Jesus? NO.

All saved become Israel.

The temple is GONE, and NO ONE can practice the old law.

Is there a relationship to a future temple and what you term the old law?

The temple was destroyed in AD 70.

Ezekiel spoke of a temple. It was not the first or second temple as far as I know. I don't know what it refers to.

But a discussion of if a person should keep God's Law doesn't need to be tied to if there will be a future temple according to scripture or otherwise, does it?

What do you mean by all saved become Israel?

 

[Jacob]

Just believe what is plainly written. The SCRIPTURE SAYS Paul had to form Christ in them AGAIN.

If they had Christ in them that means they were saved.

If they had to have Christ formed in them again, then that means they no longer had Christ in them.

If one no longer has Christ in them, are they saved?

I hear what you are saying but I don't follow your train of thought. That is, I see how your logic works, but I don't believe what you are saying.

I don't understand or know what it means for Christ to be formed in a person. It is not a psychological thing.

 

[God's Truth]

Is there a relationship to a future temple and what you term the old law?

The temple was destroyed in AD 70.

Ezekiel spoke of a temple. It was not the first or second temple as far as I know. I don't know what it refers to.

Jesus is the temple of God. Jesus puts us in him, so that he can put us in God.

When we are saved, we are given the Spirit of God, we become the temple.

So then, we are seated in heaven with Christ, and Christ lives in our hearts here on earth.

But a discussion of if a person should keep God's Law doesn't need to be tied to if there will be a future temple according to scripture or otherwise, does it?

What do you mean by all saved become Israel?

The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.

Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”

Did you see that? The one who struggles with God and with men and overcomes…


And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.


And there is only one way a person can overcome this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Therefore, who and what is Israel---Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

I hear what you are saying but I don't follow your train of thought. That is, I see how your logic works, but I don't believe what you are saying.

I don't understand or know what it means for Christ to be formed in a person. It is not a psychological thing.

Don't you know the scriptures and believe we are given the Holy Spirit to live inside our heart when we are saved?

 

[Jacob]

Jesus is the temple of God. Jesus puts us in him, so that he can put us in God.

When we are saved, we are given the Spirit of God, we become the temple.

So then, we are seated in heaven with Christ, and Christ lives in our hearts here on earth.




The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.

Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”

Did you see that? The one who struggles with God and with men and overcomes…


And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.

Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.


And there is only one way a person can overcome this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.

1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Therefore, who and what is Israel---Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.

Interesting teaching. I know Jacob's name was changed to Israel (mine is not). The rest of your post I don't know what to do with. Instead, I know what the scriptures say. 1 John 5:5 is a good verse, also.

 

[Jacob]

Don't you know the scriptures and believe we are given the Holy Spirit to live inside our heart when we are saved?

Where do you get this teaching from?