Jesus' word is the center of Christianity.

[God's Truth]

You are welcome to elaborate and I will leave this there for now. Are you talking about or sharing what you believe to be Biblical or scriptural?

I am speaking about the scriptures.
I am speaking about what is in the Bible.

Do you know the Jews had regulations to do to worship God?
Do you know these regulations were works the Jews had to do to clean themselves?
What do you think the command to circumcise was about, and the dietary laws, and the observance of special days, and the various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals?

 

[Jacob]

I am speaking about the scriptures.
I am speaking about what is in the Bible.

Do you know the Jews had regulations to do to worship God?
Do you know these regulations were works the Jews had to do to clean themselves?
What do you think the command to circumcise was about, and the dietary laws, and the observance of special days, and the various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals?

I don't observe all of these, but I also don't use your terminology. I observe God's commands. I am circumcised. I observe kosher, the Ten Commandments, the feasts and holy days of Torah, and other Jewish festivals.

Shalom for now.

 

[God's Truth]

I don't observe all of these, but I also don't use your terminology. I observe God's commands. I am circumcised. I observe kosher, the Ten Commandments, the feasts and holy days of Torah, and other Jewish festivals.

Shalom for now.

This is important, please tell me, do you understand that being circumcised, observing special days, adhering to a dietary law, doing various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals were all acts to clean and justify one's self before God?

 

[God's Truth]

Here are the verses in the NASB from these references.

Hebrews 9:10, 13 NASB - 10 since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation. ... 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh,

Hebrews 13:9 NASB - 9 Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.

I am not following with what you are saying.

You said you were kosher. That is about food. Read what Hebrews says. Hebrews say that is a REGULATION IMPOSED on the body UNTIL THE REFORMATION.

The reformation is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We are strengthened by grace, and NOT by food.

 

[God's Truth]

Are you strengthening yourself by things outside of grace?

Grace is about not having to clean ourselves any more by adhering to a dietary law, and the observance of special days, and by circumcision, and the blood of animals.

Faith that Jesus' blood cleans us is all that matters. THAT is what grace is.

Grace is that we no longer have to do any of the ceremonial works, the regulations to clean ourselves, just to go to the temple to worship God, for Jesus' blood cleans us, and we become the temple of the Living God.

 

[Danoh]

Thank you for sharing this. I believe you are thinking of me in this. I don't have an answer for you at this time. But your question cuts right to where I am at.

You appear to be mixed up in a hybrid of beliefs that, although differing in result, is as confused as "God's Truth" continues to be.

Take Early Acts as a Jew, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have a Messianic Jew.

Take early Acts as a Gentile, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have mainstream Christianity in all its confusions.

Read that list at the bottom of the poster, Right Divider's posts, for a good list of the various confusions and their representatives.

Now, this may sound odd right about this time. But when you have some time, find yourself a non "Messianic Christian" Jew who knows the OT and have him explain to you what he believes as to how Isaiah 2:1-5 will play out and where do the Gentiles fit in at that time?

You will then understand why Peter took issue with going to a Gentile in Acts 10 (and it had nothing to do with bigotry or ignorance of any kind on Peter's part).

The Messianics don't know why, and mainstream Christianity does not.

Both have so screwed that up that it almost takes the lens of a lost Jew who at least knows the OT Prophets to sort out Acts 10 and 11's first impulse response.

 

[meshak]

You appear to be mixed up in a hybrid of beliefs that, although differing in result, is as confused as "God's Truth" continues to be.

This thread is about Jesus' word or teaching on how it is the center of Christianity.

The rest of the books should be read accordingly.

blessings.

 

[meshak]

Well, I know Peter preached to Jews and Gentiles before Paul preached to Gentiles.

So did the others.

Jesus preached to the Jews mostly so He commissioned to His followers to reach out to the rest of the world.

It seems that they did not understand Jesus' last command to them at the beginning, about reaching out the world.

Nonetheless, Jesus told them to.

 

[musterion]

Not two gospels.

The current religious scene uses the word "gospel" indiscriminately. We hear of gospel music, gospel truth, the old fashioned gospel, gospel literature, and gospel meetings. But what is the meaning of the word "gospel"? Coming from the Greek word euaggelion, it simply means "good tidings" or "good news."

Let me raise a question that might bring opposing response and perhaps considerable disagreement. Here's the question: Is there more than one gospel? Some would quickly answer "Of course not! There's only one gospel." They refer to the gospel spoken of by the apostle Paul in this familiar passage:

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Cor 15:1-4
​

But is this the only "good news" of the Bible? Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will demonstrate that for the 101 times the word is used, it cannot be exclusively "the gospel" to which the apostle referred. However, if you object to the statement that there is more than one gospel, you would surely agree that if there is but one "good news" it must necessarily concern several different subjects. Paul wrote,

And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ... Philippians 1:9-10.
​

A marginal rendering of the phrase "approve things that are excellent" is simply "distinguish between the things which differ." In this series of messages, I want us to consider the teaching of God's Word relative to four different gospels mentioned in the New Testament. We will examine the four different subjects about which the gospel is concerned . . .

Which Gospel When?

 

[musterion]

This thread is about Jesus' word or teaching on how it is the center of Christianity.

The rest of the books should be read accordingly.

blessings.

"The apostle John wrote in strong words the divine condemnation of deceivers who deny that Jesus is the Christ of God manifest in the flesh. Check it out, friend. What does your church teach and what does your preacher believe about Jesus Christ? All that scriptures says about Him and all that He declares concerning Himself is true. The one who departs from either is a false teacher and dispenser of a false gospel
. . .

"The Word of God clearly condemns anyone who perverts the gospel of the grace of God, or who departs from the doctrine of Christ. In fact, you will find no stronger language in all of Scripture. Paul said that even an angel would be "accursed" if he preached anything different. Read for yourself his inspired words:

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8)

​

"The curse of God is upon all preaching that says man has to work to be saved or to be kept saved. This sounds the death knell to all who mingle law and grace. John gave this warning about anyone who preaches another gospel.

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed; For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds (2 John 1:10-11)

​

"At the time of John's writing, the homes of the Christians were the primary places for assembly and worship. Stated simply, these believers were to have no fellowship whatever with one who preached a different gospel and who denied the doctrine of Christ.

"May I put it pointedly to you? If you are affiliated with a church or a religious group that tolerates the preaching of another gospel, or that goes beyond or does not abide in the doctrine of Christ, you are not only exposing your family to false teaching but are disobeying the Word of God. Ephesians 5:11 commands us to 'have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but, rather, reprove them.' "


http://paulsgracemessage.blogspot.com/2016/02/which-gospel-when-by-paul-r-van-gorder.html

All that is talking about you, Meshak.

 

[God's Truth]

Consider one of various passages in Matthew thru John like the following:

Matthew 8:1 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him. 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 8:3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 8:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

He has just instructed that individual to go and have animal sacrifices offered to the LORD, per the Law of the Leper commanded by God TO ISRAEL through Moses, in Lev. 14.

Would you "follow Jesus" in this?

If so, why?

If not, why not?

Just two questions you might consider reflecting on.

Jesus did not die on the cross yet. That is the reason why animal sacrifices were still in force.

Jesus is the LAMB OF GOD.

The Lamb had not yet been sacrificed.

When Jesus came and had his earthly ministry---he taught the way of the NEW Covenant; and when he died on the cross---he shed his blood for the NEW COVENANT.

The scriptures say JESUS CAME WITH GRACE, and that Moses came with the old law.

Why won't you believe that?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

All that is talking about you, Meshak.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I see that "gods truth" is still abiding in confusion. So is Meshak and Jacob. All three of them have the same problem. Interesting.

 

[Jacob]

This is important, please tell me, do you understand that being circumcised, observing special days, adhering to a dietary law, doing various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals were all acts to clean and justify one's self before God?

No, that is not what I understand. These are matters of the Law and obedience to the Law if a person chooses to be obedient to God's Law according to the old covenant. They have nothing to do with justifying one's self.

 

[Jacob]

You said you were kosher. That is about food. Read what Hebrews says. Hebrews say that is a REGULATION IMPOSED on the body UNTIL THE REFORMATION.

The reformation is the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We are strengthened by grace, and NOT by food.

I understand we are strengthened by grace, but I have no problem keeping kosher. I can say that in some matters of keeping kosher I am still learning. But most people who know me know that I keep kosher. Keeping kosher according to Torah means different things to different people, according to how it is interpreted. I acknowledge this. If you were to observe what I eat, I eat or keep kosher. But I fellowship with those who do and with those who don't.

 

[Jacob]

Are you strengthening yourself by things outside of grace?

Grace is about not having to clean ourselves any more by adhering to a dietary law, and the observance of special days, and by circumcision, and the blood of animals.

Faith that Jesus' blood cleans us is all that matters. THAT is what grace is.

Grace is that we no longer have to do any of the ceremonial works, the regulations to clean ourselves, just to go to the temple to worship God, for Jesus' blood cleans us, and we become the temple of the Living God.

These things do not have to do with cleaning one's self. That is, salvation in Jesus Christ is what matters. But obedience to the Law, as I understand it, is not as you are describing it. I am a new covenant believer. But I observe much of what is found in the old covenant law. I believe the old covenant Law to be God's Law. It is not man's law. But I am saying it IS God's Law while I am a new covenant believer. I can explain my thoughts on this, but to end this post I am simply saying I see nothing wrong in it. As a child I was practically told that obeying God is not for Christians. I was told I was justifying myself. This was when I was wanting to observe New Testament commands, or commands found in the New Testament. I also knew about loving God and loving my neighbor. I can't remember if I thought specifically of the Ten Commandments at this time or not. But when I discovered God's Law in the course of time it brought me near to God. Because God is holy and my sin was shown for what it was. Obeying God is not sin. That is what I have learned. So, I do say I obey God's commands. I do this as a new covenant believer. And I don't hold Gentiles to the standard of the Law for their obedience, salvation, and fellowship. But it is still God's Law. It still points out sin in the unbeliever. And it still tells believers about the God they love, serve, and worship. There are things required of Gentiles who are new covenant believers. These I do tell Gentiles about, when I have the opportunity.

 

[God's Truth]

No, that is not what I understand. These are matters of the Law and obedience to the Law if a person chooses to be obedient to God's Law according to the old covenant. They have nothing to do with justifying one's self.

You are badly mistaken, for the Jews had works to do to clean themselves.

The Jews had to clean themselves, just to be able to worship God.

Do you really not understand about the Jews having to make themselves clean and justified before God?

What do you think circumcision and the blood of animals was all about?

 

[Jacob]

You appear to be mixed up in a hybrid of beliefs that, although differing in result, is as confused as "God's Truth" continues to be.

Take Early Acts as a Jew, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have a Messianic Jew.

Take early Acts as a Gentile, mix it in with Paul misunderstood, and you have mainstream Christianity in all its confusions.

Read that list at the bottom of the poster, Right Divider's posts, for a good list of the various confusions and their representatives.

Now, this may sound odd right about this time. But when you have some time, find yourself a non "Messianic Christian" Jew who knows the OT and have him explain to you what he believes as to how Isaiah 2:1-5 will play out and where do the Gentiles fit in at that time?

You will then understand why Peter took issue with going to a Gentile in Acts 10 (and it had nothing to do with bigotry or ignorance of any kind on Peter's part).

The Messianics don't know why, and mainstream Christianity does not.

Both have so screwed that up that it almost takes the lens of a lost Jew who at least knows the OT Prophets to sort out Acts 10 and 11's first impulse response.

I have still chosen to obey God with more than what is required of Gentile believers.

 

[God's Truth]

I understand we are strengthened by grace, but I have no problem keeping kosher. I can say that in some matters of keeping kosher I am still learning. But most people who know me know that I keep kosher. Keeping kosher according to Torah means different things to different people, according to how it is interpreted. I acknowledge this. If you were to observe what I eat, I eat or keep kosher. But I fellowship with those who do and with those who don't.

We are not to eat meat from strangled animals, and blood of the animals. That is about idol practices.

However, the kosher laws you obey are only about a diet, and have nothing to do with being righteous before God.

 

[Jacob]

So did the others.

Jesus preached to the Jews mostly so He commissioned to His followers to reach out to the rest of the world.

It seems that they did not understand Jesus' last command to them at the beginning, about reaching out the world.

Nonetheless, Jesus told them to.

Yes. I believe you are correct. And this is about Jesus which is consistent with your OP. Do you believe Jews and Gentiles alike should obey Jesus? I am guessing you do. But I don't know what you would say here. Your answer is what matters, not what I think you might answer or how you might or might not say what I am spending my time on (or where my focus is here and what I want to learn in this thread, especially in regard to Christianity)... understanding Jesus for both Jews and Gentiles.