fishrovmen
Active member
I thought that one of the pillars of Calvinism is limited or particular atonement?
Jesus the Pharisees and the Law
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
I thought that one of the pillars of Calvinism is limited or particular atonement?
Why would you need any kind of atonement if God declared that you were saved before the foundation of the world?
fishrovmen
Active member
So are you now declaring that Calvinism does not teach limited or particular atonement?
Sure they teach it, but it doesn't make sense.
If you have been declared by God to be saved YOU DON'T NEED ANYTHING.
fishrovmen
Active member
Were you not declared "saved" after you believed the Gospel?
Nanja
Well-known member
Actually, that's the wrong order.
It points to the work of believing which gets a person saved.
But first a person is Saved, then they are made able to believe the Gospel of God's Grace which is a fruit of the Spirit given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
Eph. 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Fixed it for Calvinists...
The "Not that of yourselves" means not by any works that one would do. Believing and having faith is not a work that saves. Jesus encourages us to believe on him, John 3:16. Faith is not a work, but no one will be saved without it.
Nanja
Well-known member
Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit of God Gal. 5:22 given in New Birth to every one of God's Elect Saints.
But the Faith / Believing exercised in the mind of a carnal man is a work (Gr. ergon) of the flesh which cannot please God Rom 8:7-8.
ergon, G2041:
II. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2041&t=KJV&ss=1
There is a world of difference between faith and faithfulness...
Even Satan has faith Him who the Father has sent is the Son of God, and has provided salvation for us...
As if merely accepting the gift is work...or enough...it transforms one to wish to be faithful
Faith is the results of hearing and believing the Gospel.
"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (The Gospel) Romans 10:17.
Nanja
Well-known member
Before new birth, a person's own hearing and believing are just filthy works of the flesh that cannot please God Rom. 8:8; Is. 64:6.
First Faith must be given by God in New Birth Gal. 5:22, then all their good works please God Rom. 8:9.
On the day of Pentecost thousands of unbelieving Jews, some of them who had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, heard Peter's Gospel and were saved, Acts 2:41.
You are in great error.
Nanja
Well-known member
No. You are!
That's because they were already Saved.
The Gospel is hid to them that are Lost 2 Cor. 4:3-4!
So, you want to believe that those that crucified Jesus, Acts 2:36, were God's people?
The Gospel is hid from you because you are lost.
Nanja
Well-known member
You don't know God's People!
Ummm are they the ones that WANT to do more be more like Him His way?
You know out of gratitude for being saved...and everything else He did?
Or are they the ones that think its just a gift without fruits...
Nanja
Well-known member
God's People are the ones Christ came to Save from their sins Mat. 1:21.
The ones Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world to be Holy and with blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:4-5.
The Election of Grace Rom 11:5 who were Saved before the World began.
2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Ok good...so how do we verify they are God's people? just because they claim it or is it visibly manifested in their lives actions words and deeds?
Maybe since everybody is what everybody is supposed to be...it dont even matter?
Your doctrine is in conflict with the word of God.
1 John 2:2 tells us that Jesus atoned for the sins of the whole world. Why do you continue to call the apostle John a liar?