JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[Lazy afternoon]

See, this is just brainwashing. I have no idea where you guys pull these odd little trinkets from, always from left field and having nothing to do with the discussion. Is it brainwashing? Do they say this repeatedly from the podium? Where in the world would you get such an idea?


I know that your yes is supposed to be yes, and if you lie, it shows what is in your soul. I know that.

Not really the website for that, is it? Find me a website with palm trees, iced tea and a hammock and I'll come join you there. We'll both take it easy and enjoy pictures of what God has made (I have a thread like that here on TOL, worth the time imho. I'll try to figure out how to get an Iced Tea in your hand).


Boom! I agree with you: Do justly. Matthew 5:37. Btw, I've never had you on ignore. You are just sticking up for the wrong guy imho.
You and I don't agree and stubbornly so YET, we know how to let things go. Daqq has been sour from the day he arrived. He has a lot of anger and hate and never changes it up from person to person. People don't deserve to be thrown into hell as if they are disagreeing with God, simply because they disagree with him.


Yep, I agree. He has told many on TOL they are going to hell for disagreeing with him. Me? I simply said he broke his word and called me "Legion." Now, apparently a 4 headed leopard. Why? :idunno: That one is about a nation in the book of Daniel :idunno: "LOL" I guess... :idunno:
I didn't think you were silent :idunno: I would that you'd reprove the right person though.


I haven't forgotten my word. You've never "torn me to pieces." :idunno: Wouldn't you rather be correcting Daqq for calling me Legion and breaking his word to ignore me and not stab me behind my back???
This is a thread that doesn't seek to glorify, and I didn't make it. It is yet another thread that offers contention and, on purpose.
As far as conversation, my yes is yes, my no is no. I was happily ignoring him and he was gone into the depths of my ignore list with no thought of breaking my promise to leave him alone as he agreed to leave me alone. He started this and against his word not to do so. All I've done is shown that he broke his word, and in so doing backstabbed where I'd not even have known it, blissfully, if another hadn't drawn my attention.
If our word is no good, are we trustworthy people? Do you want a friend you cannot trust, let alone a supposed enemy? He treats people who don't agree with him like garbage on TOL, time and time again. He continually relegates everyone who is not Unitarian to hell's trash bin with relish, no exceptions. Is that who you want to be defending? Or confronting? Do right, LA correct those among you who do this all wrong. -Lon

I am not interested in your fight with Daqq, either way.

just obey the instructions--

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

 

[daqq]

Daqq has been sour from the day he arrived. He has a lot of anger and hate and never changes it up from person to person. People don't deserve to be thrown into hell as if they are disagreeing with God, simply because they disagree with him.

Yep, I agree. He has told many on TOL they are going to hell for disagreeing with him. Me? I simply said he broke his word and called me "Legion."

Lie, lie, lie . . . ask @freelight what I believe about "Hell" and perhaps he will explain to you why it is you are a bold faced liar; for he and I pretty much agree about what "Hell" is. Please produce one quote where I have ever told anyone that they are going to Hell. I do not have to believe the way you believe just to be able to say symbolic things: you are not God, if you do not understand what I say that does not give you the right to reinterpret my words for your own benefit so as to use your own false interpretation of my words against me to condemn me. Again, you are a psychopath. That is not a joke or an accusation: it is the truth, and I tell you for your own good to hopefully wake you up even though I know you hate me for it. You are the one whose version of God damns people into eternal conscious fiery torment simply because they are "unelect", even though according to your doctrine they have no freewill and no choice in the matter whatsoever: according to you it is unavoidable and inescapable because of "totally depravity" and original sin committed by Adam and Eve; and the "unelect" go to your version of literal fiery hell for all eternity simply because it is the good pleasure of your version of God.

Hell is an allegory, a parable, and possibly even an entity; and "everlasting fire", (which may or may not even be intended to mean the same thing as "Hell" in the scripture), is a place "prepared for the Devil and his angels", (as I already said to you in quoting the Master himself). I already explained the basics of my understanding of this right here in this thread to you, and I even quoted that last statement from the Master himself when I responded to you here earlier, ("prepared for the Devil and his angels").

You have absolutely no excuse for your lying tongue. You even quoted what I said and responded to it with some ridiculous statement like "I am not allowed to rework history" along with some other inane venomous drool. If you choose not to believe me when I tell you what I believe that is not my problem: but when you turn around and lie about what I believe after I already told you what I believe then you only reveal to all once again that you are everything that has already been said about you right here in this thread. I told you what I believe: it is not my problem you chose not to believe me when I told you. How can I tell someone else they are going to Hell when I do not even believe in Hell the same way that you do?

However, just so you know, in my doctrine people are not demons; no, but that is rather you who inadvertently and probably unknowingly teaches such nonsense because you believe in a literal fiery hell, where those who disagree with your doctrine are "unelect", and going to spend eternity in conscious torment, while the Master says no such thing and rather plainly says that everlasting fire is "prepared for the Devil and his angels". Who told you to include human beings with the Devil and his angels being destined for eternal fiery torment? You neither received that from the scripture, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the Master Teacher. And worse than that your false heretical doctrine teaches by way of "Total Depravity" that mankind can do nothing to change his relationship with the Creator, such as that all important word, Repent, (which requires a willful choice in the heart and mind of the person). So you have a God who condemns people to eternal conscious fiery torment even though they were "totally depraved", with original sin handed down from Adam, and could do absolutely nothing about it; not even repent, nope, according to you they have no choice in the matter because it is the good pleasure of your God to cast them into eternal conscious torment just because he can and it is pleasing to him. You are a closet psychopath just as I said.

 

[daqq]

Originally Posted by Lon
Daqq has been sour from the day he arrived. He has a lot of anger and hate and never changes it up from person to person. People don't deserve to be thrown into hell as if they are disagreeing with God, simply because they disagree with him.

Yep, I agree. He has told many on TOL they are going to hell for disagreeing with him. Me? I simply said he broke his word and called me "Legion."

I also already told you that I did not call you Legion:

You are clearly are not any kind of word technician: I neither called you a demon nor did I say *you* were Legion. How on earth do you fancy yourself to be a teacher of men and so highly educated when you cannot even understand what people write? How can you make such accusations when it makes you look like you do not even remember what you were talking about? And my response was not even to you. And my response never even mentioned your name.

Originally Posted by daqq
There is mention of six hundred men concerning the Philistines, the six hundred armed men of the tribe of Dan when they went and took Laish, (which later became Paneas, (of the false god Pan), and then even later became Caesarea Philippi), and likewise both Saul and David had cohorts of six hundred men. Perhaps it just depends on who is doing the big talking as to whether or not he merely speaks of nothing more than the first cohort of Legion, (<---- Hmmm, did I say that right?).

I guess that means you claim not only to be yourself but the imaginary six hundred who agree with you also, which is really freaky if indeed you claim to be six hundred and one people, but not really surprising seeing how you imagine yourself to speak for all. However, just so you know, in my doctrine people are not demons; no, but that is rather you who inadvertently and probably unknowingly teaches such nonsense because you believe in a literal fiery hell, where those who disagree with your doctrine are "unelect", and going to spend eternity in conscious torment, while the Master says no such thing and rather plainly says that everlasting fire is "prepared for the Devil and his angels". Who told you to include human beings with the Devil and his angels being destined for eternal fiery torment? You neither recieved that from the scripture, nor the Holy Spirit, nor the Master Teacher. And worse than that your false heretical doctrine teaches by way of "Total Depravity" that mankind can do nothing to change his relationship with the Creator, such as that all important word, Repent, (which requires a willful choice in the heart and mind of the person). So you have a God who condemns people to eternal conscious fiery torment even though they were "totally depraved", with original sin handed down from Adam, and could do absolutely nothing about it; not even repent, nope, according to you they have no choice in the matter because it is the good pleasure of your God to cast them into eternal conscious torment just because he can and it is pleasing to him. You are a closet psychopath just as I said.

Your accusation is pure buffoonery because no one who reads the accounts of the demon possessed man, who was possessed by the Legion, comes away believing that the man himself was the Legion. It is plain as day that the Legion went OUT of the man and INTO the swine. Where do you come up with your nonsense? How can you expect anyone to actually believe you paid great sums of money, went to higher education and received degrees in scripture studies, and have such a lofty IQ which you brag about all the time, when you cannot even understand the very simplest concepts laid out in the scripture and which require only the smallest amount of reading comprehension? It is simply bad theology on your part to imagine that anyone called you Legion because everyone else around here but you understands that the Legion was never the man to begin with according to the scripture. You only reveal your own terrible lack of understanding when it comes to your own comprehension of the scripture writings.

Additionally Mary Magdalene had seven demons cast out of her, and in that she was delivered by the Messiah, (with the Finger of Elohim he casts out demons and if so then the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you), and if it was good enough for her then it was good enough for me too; and should you think that you are above all such things? If you do then you do not believe the scripture any more than you believe me.

Moreover "Hell" was a Greek god of the underworld; an entity, as opposed to a literal place, (originally). In Rev 6:8 Hades or Hell is following Death who is the fourth horseman, and in Rev 20:14 both Death and Hades or Hell are cast into the lake of fire, and in Rev 1:18 the Son of Elohim has their keys!

So much for your version of "Hell", which is straight up buffoonery: you have taken allegorical things used as teaching tools and turned them into literal physical eternal fiery torturous vengeful realities in the machinations of your vain imagination.

As already said to your pal Evil.Eye by way of the scripture:

1 John 3:14-15 KJV
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Matthew 15:18-20 KJV
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

So because of Rev 1:18, Rev 6:8, and Rev 20:14, "Death" can also be understood as an allegorical entity. And what does the Son of Elohim say he will do if you are fornicating with the false prophetess Jezebel and consuming her false doctrines and poisonous spiritual food sacrificed to idols? He says he will kill her offspring with Death, (Rev 2:23), and that likely means that she will produce giants unto you, just as in Gen 6:1-4 and the book of Enoch; for it is supernal and spiritual in meaning, and every devil has its doctrine(s).

That also means that one may either be "abiding in Messiah", as Paul teaches, or one may be "abiding in Death" as the statement above from 1John 3:14 so strongly implies: the choice is of the will and entirely up to you because, just as everyone else here, you have the holy Scripture and the Testimony of Messiah and his Apostles at your fingertips and eyes. But as for now the lying tongue which you display has already loudly proclaimed the one in whom you currently abide: for the tree is known by its fruit, and what comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart; and those are the things that defile the man.

 

[oatmeal]

No Jesus is NOT God Almighty. He says that Jehovah is HIS GOD (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12) and God Almighty doesn't have a God. So by his own words Jesus is not God Almighty.

But you don't honor Jesus' words, do you?

You would think verses like that would be clear enough for them.

I Timothy 2:5, Acts 2:22...

They are deeply entrenched in their threeeology.

Well, they have their convictions but unfortunately, they do not rightly divide the word of truth on this subject.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

EE,

The one of John 10:30 is not the one of --

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

LA

LA,

Lies are bad for the soul.

John 13:13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I also already told you that I did not call you Legion:

Additionally Mary Magdalene had seven demons cast out of her, and in that she was delivered by the Messiah, (with the Finger of Elohim he casts out demons and if so then the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you), and if it was good enough for her then it was good enough for me too; and should you think that you are above all such things? If you do then you do not believe the scripture any more than you believe me.

I thought to ask him this but posted the Creed song instead.

In this post at least you are asking rather than telling him he hasn't yet understood that none of us escape being of the wicked generation.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I thought to ask him this but posted the Creed song instead.

In this post at least you are asking rather than telling him he hasn't yet understood that none of us escape being of the wicked generation.

Are we erasing verses now?

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

 

[daqq]

I thought to ask him this but posted the Creed song instead.

In this post at least you are asking rather than telling him he hasn't yet understood that none of us escape being of the wicked generation.

To their credit none of us seem to ever believe such things apply to us until after they happen, and yet, once those things do happen they become plain as day right there in the text after the fact, (in the afterglow days one shall consider it perfectly). But you see that there are no exceptions to the rule in the following statement and one either believes the full Testimony of Messiah or one does not:

Matthew 12:43-45 (Luke 11:24-26)
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked [fourth] generation.

Seven mountains, which are seven heads, and there are seven kings of the heathen-nations, (Rev 17:9-11, Deut 7:1), seven heathen-nations of the Land which are greater and mightier than the sons of Israel, (the Torah is spiritual and supernal and every man is the Land). And when the fullness of the heathen-nations have entered in; then shall the Deliverer come forth out of Zion, each in his or her own appointed times, and none shall be alone in his appointed times; the time appointed of the Father when a child becomes a son, (Gal 4:1-2), and no one knows the day or the hour, not even the angels, but the Father only. And who shall live when El does this? In the same manner shall all Israel be delivered, no exceptions to the rule, just as there are no exceptions to the rule in the Matthew passage quoted above: unless of course the prince of the power of the air, (Eph 2:2-3, Dan 8:5, 8:21, 10:20), and "old man" spirit of the world was never cast out of the person to begin with; then I suppose in that case one does not need to worry about the prince of the power of the air returning from the dry-arid places of the desert, with seven other spirits more wicked than himself, for he never left the house of the man to begin with, (and the first is the desert nomad goat with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, which was sent away to-for Azazel, and when he returns he is the eighth and of the seven because he goes and associates in league with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself). You see the problem with someone claiming that "Jesus became Azazel" for him? In the middle of the discourse on Atonement the author of the epistle to the Hebrews makes it clear that Messiah shall appear the second time without sin, (Heb 9:28, which is right in the midst of a two-chapter discourse on Yom Kippurim), and for good reason he says so right in the middle of that discourse so that one does not confuse the issue with the scapegoat and end up in blasphemy. The moment the sins of the people are placed upon the head of the goat to be sent away into the desert that goat becomes unclean; and because the Kohen lays his hands upon its head and pronounces all the sins of the people upon its head, his head is "mortally wounded", (and that goat therefore certainly does not represent the Messiah in typology because there was and is no sin in Messiah). And when he comes back from the desert, with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, he looks like a lamb, two horns like a lamb of Elohim but speaks like a dragon: and who shall live when El does this? Whosoever calls upon the Name in that hour of trial shall be delivered, and that is when it really counts, (no one gets to arrogantly decide the day that Elohim will "save" them), there will be wonders in the heavens above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and misty-vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood; the young men shall see visions, the old men shall dream dreams.

But I suppose that is all for another time and place . . . :chuckle:

 

[Lon]

Again, you are a psychopath. That is not a joke or an accusation: it is the truth, and I tell you for your own good to hopefully wake you up even though I know you hate me for it.

:nono: It is a joke. There are few psychopaths in the world. You "habitually" condemn everybody you talk to, that's for sure. Who cares what the condemnation is after that, your 'symbolism' is always meant to convey such. So no, not a lie. You are the only one here with a lack of integrity and cannot keep his word. That man ain't me.

You are the one whose version of God damns people into eternal conscious fiery torment simply because they are "unelect", even though according to your doctrine they have no freewill and no choice in the matter whatsoever: according to you it is unavoidable and inescapable because of "totally depravity" and original sin committed by Adam and Eve; and the "unelect" go to your version of literal fiery hell for all eternity simply because it is the good pleasure of your version of God.

See, you have no idea what I believe, only what you 'think' I believe. This isn't the thread for it, however, is it?? :nono: Why bring it up? I know. Do you?

Hell is an allegory, a parable, and possibly even an entity; and "everlasting fire", (which may or may not even be intended to mean the same thing as "Hell" in the scripture), is a place "prepared for the Devil and his angels", (as I already said to you in quoting the Master himself). I already explained the basics of my understanding of this right here in this thread to you, and I even quoted that last statement from the Master himself when I responded to you here earlier, ("prepared for the Devil and his angels").

Again, condemnation is where another thinks it is and you are ripe with the accusation. People besides me will always think you mean the worst by it because it is how you posture and assert your righteousness over another's disagreement with YOU, not scripture. lain:

You have absolutely no excuse for your lying tongue. You even quoted what I said and responded to it with some ridiculous statement like "I am not allowed to rework history" along with some other inane venomous drool. If you choose not to believe me when I tell you what I believe that is not my problem: but when you turn around and lie about what I believe after I already told you what I believe then you only reveal to all once again that you are everything that has already been said about you right here in this thread. I told you what I believe: it is not my problem you chose not to believe me when I told you. How can I tell someone else they are going to Hell when I do not even believe in Hell the same way that you do?

Nope. "Hell" At BEST would have been a mistake of what is implied. Breaking your word when you said you'd do something and then didn't do it? Yeah, that's a "lie." You are falsely accusing, and as I said, simply because your pride and opposition to orthodox Christianity can never have you in a position where you have been wrong and in need of apologizing to me or to God. :nono: That's the only thing that will ever be on the table, not whether or not your condemnations lead to hell. It's a distraction maneuver to not have to face your own situation. "I'm sorry Lon, you are right. I will endeavor not to talk about you behind your back and keep my end of the bargain "I" asked for in the first place, to ignore you completely when asking you to do the same. Please forgive me for my cowardly uncontrollable urge to talk about you behind your back. I will try not to let it happen again, though I don't like you so much, I am willing to talk about you when I know you aren't looking so there will be no 20 pages like this of you reminding me I broke my word. Sincerely Daqq."

One short sentence saying you'd not do it again would have ended this. You'd rather keep your false pride though, than admit anything like this. -Lon

 

[Lon]

No Jesus is NOT God Almighty. He says that Jehovah is HIS GOD (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12) and God Almighty doesn't have a God. So by his own words Jesus is not God Almighty.

But you don't honor Jesus' words, do you?

:nono: Just the opposite, you NEVER hear Him say He isn't God, but rather "I and the Father are One." Yeah, I know you put a spin on it, but don't try to say that in the flesh, The Lord Jesus Christ having a Creator at that point, makes Him less than He always was. Hebrews 10:5

We are never going to agree, but at least argue correctly.

 

[Lon]

I thought to ask him this but posted the Creed song instead.

Demons cannot possess Christians. :nono:

In this post at least you are asking rather than telling him he hasn't yet understood that none of us escape being of the wicked generation.

Thanks for that correction. I was a bit frustrated at the one-sided mediating. It isn't as much as one would hope for if one takes on the role of mediating, however.

 

[Lon]

I also already told you that I did not call you Legion:

Your accusation is pure buffoonery .

:doh: It doesn't matter what you 'believe' it matters what you said.

You are working so hard to bury your breaking of your word, and for whatever reason, calling me "Legion" with a capital "L". Many words and further accusation doesn't do you any good. Yes, I have an education and frankly you've not and cannot touch it with your further 'buffoonery" nonsense. It is only showing your disdain rather than any superior prowess. No Arian/Unitarian likes to be reminded he/she didn't do well in school. A mediocre high school education does not a theologian make and no amount of schoolyard bullying of one with a better show of academic prowess is going to do a thing for you, so you should stop it now. You won't, you just should. No Unitarian ever listens when I tell them that. One has to wonder why. What is the cure for ignorance? --> Study. That's it. There is nothing but years of ten hour study days. Anybody 'can' do it. The question is whether they did or will.

Now deal with two items: Legion with a capital L and the fact that you were talking about me behind my back which you said you'd not do, if I agreed and ignored you as well. That's it. 20 pages later, and that is it. Nothing more. No inane side-stepping or distraction.

 

[daqq]

:nono: It is a joke. There are few psychopaths in the world. You "habitually" condemn everybody you talk to, that's for sure. Who cares what the condemnation is after that, your 'symbolism' is always meant to convey such. So no, not a lie. You are the only one here with a lack of integrity and cannot keep his word. That man ain't me.



See, you have no idea what I believe, only what you 'think' I believe. This isn't the thread for it, however, is it?? :nono: Why bring it up? I know. Do you?


Again, condemnation is where another thinks it is and you are ripe with the accusation. People besides me will always think you mean the worst by it because it is how you posture and assert your righteousness over another's disagreement with YOU, not scripture. lain:

Nope. "Hell" At BEST would have been a mistake of what is implied. Breaking your word when you said you'd do something and then didn't do it? Yeah, that's a "lie." You are falsely accusing, and as I said, simply because your pride and opposition to orthodox Christianity can never have you in a position where you have been wrong and in need of apologizing to me or to God. :nono: That's the only thing that will ever be on the table, not whether or not your condemnations lead to hell. It's a distraction maneuver to not have to face your own situation. "I'm sorry Lon, you are right. I will endeavor not to talk about you behind your back and keep my end of the bargain "I" asked for in the first place, to ignore you completely when asking you to do the same. Please forgive me for my cowardly uncontrollable urge to talk about you behind your back. I will try not to let it happen again, though I don't like you so much, I am willing to talk about you when I know you aren't looking so there will be no 20 pages like this of you reminding me I broke my word. Sincerely Daqq."

One short sentence saying you'd not do it again would have ended this. You'd rather keep your false pride though, than admit anything like this. -Lon

:doh: It doesn't matter what you 'believe' it matters what you said.

You are working so hard to bury your breaking of your word, and for whatever reason, calling me "Legion" with a capital "L". Many words and further accusation doesn't do you any good. Yes, I have an education and frankly you've not and cannot touch it with your further 'buffoonery" nonsense. It is only showing your disdain rather than any superior prowess. No Arian/Unitarian likes to be reminded he/she didn't do well in school. A mediocre high school education does not a theologian make and no amount of schoolyard bullying of one with a better show of academic prowess is going to do a thing for you, so you should stop it now. You won't, you just should. No Unitarian ever listens when I tell them that. One has to wonder why. What is the cure for ignorance? --> Study. That's it. There is nothing but years of ten hour study days. Anybody 'can' do it. The question is whether they did or will.

Now deal with two items: Legion with a capital L and the fact that you were talking about me behind my back which you said you'd not do, if I agreed and ignored you as well. That's it. 20 pages later, and that is it. Nothing more. No inane side-stepping or distraction.

:doh: More gibberish, venom, and nonsense. No thanks. :nono:

 

[Lazy afternoon]

LA,

Lies are bad for the soul.

John 13:13 You call Me Teacher and Lord, and you say well, for so I am.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/videos/understanding-john-10-30

John 10:30
I and my father are one. (KJV)


1. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up “one God.” The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant—he and his father are very much alike. When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, “he who plants and he who waters are one” (1 Cor. 3:8 – KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up “one being.” Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as “he who plants and he who waters have one purpose.” Why translate the phrase as “are one” in one place, but as “have one purpose” in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ’s statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father’s will; he and God have “one purpose.”

2. Christ uses the concept of “being one” in other places, and from them one can see that “one purpose” is what is meant. John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God’s children “one.” In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be “one” as he and God were “one.” We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or “substance” just as he and his Father were one being or “substance.” We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.

3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the “sheep,” the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father’s hand. Then he said that he and the Father were “one,” i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.

Buzzard, pp. 135 and 136

Farley, pp. 60 and 61

Morgridge, pp. 39-42

Back to the list of “Verses Used to Support the Doctrine of the Trinity”

ALSO--
Joh 13:13 YeG5210 callG5455 meG3165 MasterG1320 (not Yahveh)andG2532 Lord:G2962 (not Yahveh)andG2532 ye sayG3004 well;G2573 forG1063 so I am.G1510

 

[KingdomRose]

:nono: Just the opposite, you NEVER hear Him say He isn't God, but rather "I and the Father are One." Yeah, I know you put a spin on it, but don't try to say that in the flesh, The Lord Jesus Christ having a Creator at that point, makes Him less than He always was. Hebrews 10:5

We are never going to agree, but at least argue correctly.

You are certainly right about that!

No spin is being put on the verses, other than your ilk's well-known spins. Jesus did refute the statements of those who accused him of making himself God or equal to God. Have you missed those verses?? He actually tried to make clear that he was NOT God, but that he was GOD'S SON. Read John 10:33-36. So Jesus DOES say that he isn't God! Hello! And how often do you have to be reminded of what Jesus says in John 17:21-23 about him being one with God AND the disciples? Are the disciples also God? What is your answer to that?

 

[Lon]

You are certainly right about that!

No spin is being put on the verses, other than your ilk's well-known spins. Jesus did refute the statements of those who accused him of making himself God or equal to God. Have you missed those verses?? He actually tried to make clear that he was NOT God, but that he was GOD'S SON. Read John 10:33-36. So Jesus DOES say that he isn't God! Hello! And how often do you have to be reminded of what Jesus says in John 17:21-23 about him being one with God AND the disciples? Are the disciples also God? What is your answer to that?

I've read John many times. :think:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

:think:

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?
John 10:35 If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—
John 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Yet, even a JW says Jesus is God. So you CAN'T use this to argue against your own theology.

John 17:21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
John 17:22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
John 17:23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

Context is always king. Here in John 17? Unity in love. John 14? "When you've seen Me, you've seen the Father....I and the Father are One."
Learn how to read a sentence and paragraph. Get a couple of A's in Language Arts/English. It'll help. -Lon

 

[oatmeal]

I started the previous post with the same name to encourage people to explain how 2 particular verses could possibly be referring to just one individual. The scriptures are:

Psalm 110

Isaiah 61:1,2


No one has attempted to explain these verses yet. What is the problem? I would like the people who believe that Jesus is YHWH to share their thoughts as to why these verses do NOT refer to two different Persons.

Has anyone actually answered your post directly? or are they avoiding the subject by referring to other verses?

The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

If Jesus Christ is the Lord spoken of here then Jesus anointed himself and the spirit of himself is not actually himself but is simply UPON himself.

Acts 10:38 states a similar truth.

God anointed Jesus of Nazareth and it also states that God was with him, it does not state that God is him.

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

That Jesus as the son of God is derived, inferior and subordinate to God his Father is clear.

 

[oatmeal]

Psalm 110
Of David. A psalm.

1
(The Lord / Yahwah) says to my lord.

The name Yahwah has been replaced with (The Lord.)

Psalm 110:1

The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Clearly, one Lord is telling another lord, an inferior one what to do.

The Lord God is the Father of the lord Jesus Christ, His son.

Hence we have Lord, Sr. who is God and the son of God who is lord, jr.

 

[oatmeal]

Those verses are a prophecy which speaks of what the Lord Jesus would do after He was made in the likeness of men:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).​

Before he was made flesh He was "in the form of God." The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because the Lord Jesus is God:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

The Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom and He cannot be seen by men because our flesh and blood bodies are not equipped to see eternal things (1 Cor.4:18). And here how He is described as He sits in the eternal kingdom at the present time:

"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever" (1 Tim.1:16-17).​

The Lord Jesus is the only God.

Your conclusions regarding Philippians are premature.

You are assuming that Jesus is God and that he downgraded himself to become a man.

First, you should prove that God who changes not, decided that it is Ok to change even though he says he does not.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed

Some have said that this verse is about God's enforcement of his laws. However, if he changed anything about himself then he would have to change the enforcement of his laws as well.

We know that God is rich in mercy, and that he had a plan, (and learn of it) for man's redemption and aalvation as early as Genesis 3:15.

God has not changed his plan, for he has not changed his character or attributes. Even Jesus Christ, his son is described as the same yesterday, today and forever. How much more than is God his Father unchangeable?

God is still love, God is still light God is still spirit. John 4:24, he did not change from spirit to flesh.

Well, that should keep you busy for a while

 

[oatmeal]

Those verses are a prophecy which speaks of what the Lord Jesus would do after He was made in the likeness of men:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).​

Before he was made flesh He was "in the form of God." The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because the Lord Jesus is God:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

The Lord Jesus is now in the eternal kingdom and He cannot be seen by men because our flesh and blood bodies are not equipped to see eternal things (1 Cor.4:18). And here how He is described as He sits in the eternal kingdom at the present time:

"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever" (1 Tim.1:16-17).​

The Lord Jesus is the only God.

For that matter, he was made in the likeness of men. He did not change from being God to becoming a man.

God his Father had a son who is a man, not a spirit. His beginning is told of in Matthew 1:18

For that matter, I do not consider it robbery to be equal with God either. Do you do God's will? Well, so does Jesus Christ and so does God! God does God's will and when you do God's will whose will are you doing? When you do God's will, you are doing God's will, God does not steal, if you do not steal, you equally do God's will as God does.

That is the meaning of being equal to God, when you look at the context of the humble obedience lived by Jesus Christ to his Father, that is what being equal to God is all about.

Of course it is not robbery to be equal to God, it is our duty and responsibility to humbly and obediently live equal to God. We are in other scriptures told that we are to walk (our manner of living) worthy of God unto all pleasing. How are we going to do that if we do not consider and believe ourselves to be equal to God by doing God's will. Are you up to the task of doing God's will?

Are you equal to the task of doing God's will?

God says you are and expects you to carry it out Ephesians 2:10

All Christians as sons of God are equal to doing God's will.

Jesus Christ as the son of God showed us that it can be done.

When we continue to esteem Jesus Christ as lord we fulfill God's will in our lives