JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[KingdomRose]

There are some among us who claim children like that one will be thrown into the lake of fire and burn up into ash. And they call it Biblical. :nono:

You're dead wrong if you think JWs would think that. No 3 year old child would be destroyed. I haven't clicked on any of these videos, but it looks to me like 1Mind1Spirit is advancing the truth that Jesus was subservient to Jehovah's wishes, rather than his own. Therefore he tipped his hat to the Father, Jehovah being superior to himself (Jesus).

 

[KingdomRose]

It's the the ECT thread...endorsed by one of the annihilists who posted on there.

Wasn't me.

 

[freelight]

ECT, a devilish doctrine......

ECT, a devilish doctrine......

This sounds like a thread that evaluates ECT... from a philosophical evaluation on the character of God... utilizing scripture and reason... ahem... I wonder why no one has started it yet... "loudly clearing throat".

Hi EE,

We have,...my catalog of commentary on the subject is from the ECT thread here - that's our thread which is still going on and on and on and on. I've near exhausted my commentary on it in the earlier history and thru-out the thread to present, only chiming in from time to time as other folks continue dissecting passages. I however on another level treat the character of God in his ministration of justice and mercy, thru Love and Wisdom, willing that none perish but ALL fulfill their purpose for being and unfold their innate creative potential, becoming all they can be.

On character and ethic alone, recognizing true principles, ECT is insane, and could not be true per the terms of traditional assumptions and their concept of 'hellfire' and 'punishment'. It matters not how many so called 'scriptures' (variously interpreted) they bring to the fore respecting ECT, if it is not consonant with the character and constitution of 'God', it is invalid, erroneous and incredulous to assume such deviltry to Love, since Love's will inflicts no cruelty. Therefore all the juxtaposing and manipulations of passages is so much confusion, when the clarity of INFINITE LOVE itself speaks from the heart, in most gracious, kind, compassionate and valuing respect for all life, especially souls that mirror God's own image and likeness.

I think there is a lot of disrespecting of love going on, all to feed some religious ego's fuel to satisfy its warped sense of justice which is a guise hiding a sick pleasure to see others suffer.

 

[KingdomRose]

You are kidding yourself. You Unitarians are banned from about every other website. It isn't because you are 'being persecuted for righteousness' but contentiousness. It gets old. The 600 are correct. You were not the valedictorian. The Samaritans, always shoving their WRONG agenda, became an object lesson in both horrible theology through their rebellion and an occasional good point when one of them managed to do something right: Object lesson was doing what is right, not believing what is wrong. You are not in good company. There was only ONE good Samaritan.

No. People who believe like I do are kicked out of forums because they do not believe the same as the majority do, no matter what the argument. I have heard it said that it doesn't matter if we have a good argument....we are different, therefore we are not welcome.

 

[KingdomRose]

So... there is the Father... There is the Son and there is the Holy Spirit...

This is all in scripture... as in "Duh"... not complicated.

- EE

YOU make it complicated by saying that just because all three of your trinity members are MENTIONED, that they are EQUAL. How do your citations prove THAT? I've heard Catholics murmur the words "Jesus, Joseph and Mary".....does that mean that Joseph and Mary are equal to Jesus?

 

[KingdomRose]

This sounds like a thread that evaluates ECT... from a philosophical evaluation on the character of God... utilizing scripture and reason... ahem... I wonder why no one has started it yet... "loudly clearing throat".

I think you are 6 years old. Are you also short?

 

[daqq]

Liar!

VI-XI. The Fall of the Angels: the Demoralisation of Mankind: the Intercession of the Angels on behalf of Mankind. The Dooms pronounced by God on the Angels: the Messianic Kingdom (a Noah fragment).

CHAPTER VI.
<snip>
5. Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 6. And they were in all two hundred; who descended ⌈in the days⌉ of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. 7. And these are the names of their leaders: Sêmîazâz, their leader, Arâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Tâmîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl. 8. These are their chiefs of tens.

It is not "in the days of Jared" because yared also means "to descend" and this did not happen "in the days of Jared", chronologically speaking, but rather at the fall, (this statement in this portion of the passage has been much discussed and debated among scholarship). However there is no need to go into it here for the purposes which follow. The text says that they were in all two hundred but at the close of the above quote we also see that the names in the list were "chiefs of tens", meaning captains of tens. The names in the list with the other three heads amount to twenty one names, that is, the same number of the unclean fowls of the air given in the Torah. The Master once again therefore expounds all of this in the Parable of the Sower.

Matthew 13:3-4 KJV
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Mark 4:3-4 KJV
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Luke 8:4-5 KJV
4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

In the three Synoptic Gospel accounts we read three different names for the answer to the fowls of the air which came and devoured the seed which fell by the compacted soil by the wayside, (which is by the parable an idiom for the heart that is hardened). According to the Master the fowls of the air represent the Wicked one, the Devil, and the Satan.

Matthew 13:18-19 KJV
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:13-15 KJV
13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:11-12 KJV
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Spoiler

The first name count discrepancy is fairly easily resolved by the math contained within the text. If there are exactly 200 Watchers which descended upon Ardis, and if the list given above are "chiefs of tens" then there must be exactly 18 names, mathematically speaking, because Sêmîazâz is stated to be the chief ruler set in charge over the "chiefs of tens" who are also named, (i.e. he is the ruler of either the 17 or 18 names which are written in the text; whichever the number of the names turns out to be). Yet the names listed are also "chiefs of tens" so if we therefore have 18 names then they are chiefs over the remaining 180 fallen Watchers, but if 17 names then the remainder would be 170, (which is too small a number by the numbers given within the text itself). Neither should there be 19 names in addition to Sêmîazâz, (totaling 20), because 19 "chiefs of ten" would require a remainder of 190 fallen entities ruled over by their 19 chiefs, (totaling 209). Azâzêl is also not yet named in this section except for that he is probably Sêmîazâz which returns from the desert or wilderness, (scapegoat typology of the scripture).

Therefore there are 18 names which are chiefs over the remaining 180 fallen Watchers. Sêmîazâz, who is afterwards called Azâzêl, rules over the 18 chiefs which in turn rule over the remaining 180 fallen Watchers, (totaling 198), and the addition of Sêmîazâz himself totals 199. In the typology according to the scripture then Semjazâ is probably the Dragon, (which is the "mind of the flesh"), because Sêmîazâz-Azâzêl is most assuredly the same typology of the `Aza'zel mentioned in Leviticus 16. The scapegoat to-for `Aza'zel is the unclean spirit of the "old man" sin nature which eventually returns from the "dry-arid places" of the desert, and with all of the sins upon its mortally wounded head, and with "seven others more wicked than himself" seeking reentry into the former "house" from where he came, (Matthew 12:43-45 and Luke 11:24-26).

200 Fallen Watchers
Sêmjazâ - Dragon - Ruler over all the fallen Watchers

18 "Chiefs of Tens" over 180 Watchers: 18 + 180 = 198

Sêmîazâz ― HSN#8034 Shem (name) HSN#5810 `azaz (stout-pride).
Azâzêl ― HSN#5799 from HSN#5795 and HSN#5810 `Aza'zel
The Leviticus 16 sa`iyr-goat is sent away to-for `Aza'zel.

Original Strong's Ref. #5799
Romanized `aza'zel
Pronounced az-aw-zale'
from HSN5795 and HSN0235; goat of departure; the scapegoat:--scapegoat.

Concerning `Aza'zel the Strong's definition is incorrect. `Aza'zel is much more likely a personal pronoun or proper name as rendered in such versions as the ASV. The fact that the goat which is to be sent away is sent away "to/for" `Aza'zel reveals this to be the case. The `Aza'zel is not the goat but whom the goat is sent away to/for. Aretas is the same typology, that is, king of the desert, or Arabia, (or the Arabah which would not be the same as Arabia but rather the areas north and south of the Salt Sea).

Original Strong's Ref. #5795
Romanized `ez
Pronounced aze
from HSN5810; a she-goat (as strong),
but masculine in plural (which also is used ellipt. for goat's hair):--(she) goat, kid.

Original Strong's Ref. #5810
Romanized `azaz
Pronounced aw-zaz'
a primitive root; to be stout (literally or figuratively):
--harden, impudent, prevail, strengthen (self), be strong.

Enoch VII
1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.
2 And when the Watchers, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
3 Then their leader Semjâzâ said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;
4 And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.
5 But they answered him and said; We all swear;
6 And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
7 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon-Hermon.
8 That mountain therefore was called Hermon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
9 These are the names of their chiefs: Sêmîazâz who was their leader, Urâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tâmîêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl.
10 These were their chiefs of tens, prefects of the two hundred, and the remainder were all with them.
11 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees. And the women conceiving brought forth giants,
12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labour of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
15 Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

Enoch VIII
1 Moreover `Azâzêl taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.
2 Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.
3 Semjâzâ taught sorcerers and root-cuttings,
4 Armârôs the resolving of enchantments-sorceries,
5 Barâqîjâl taught astrology,
6 Kôkabîêl the constellations,
7 Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds,
8 Tâmîêl the signs of the earth,
9 Samsâpêêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon.
10 And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.

Thus there are a total of twenty one names: the eighteen chiefs of tens in the list, plus the three, which are Sêmjazâ, Sêmîazâz, and `Azâzêl. These 21 names correspond to the unclean fowls of the air. However all of the names do not appear in each of the separate lists given in Torah. One must put the two lists together for all of the names to be revealed and surely this is by design. Of masculine names combined from both passages there are eight names of unclean fowls including "Every `oreb-raven after his kind", (the `Aza'zel "old man" nature).

Vayikra-Leviticus 11:13-19 KJV (20 Names - 6 Masculine)
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And ("bath"- feminine untranslated) the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Vayikra-Leviticus 11:13-19 TUA (20 Names - 6 Masculine)
13 W'et- 'eleh tshaqtsuw min- ha`owp ; lo' ye'akluw --sheqets hem: 'Et- hanesher w'et- haperec w'et ha`azniyah
14 w'et- hada'ah w'et- ha'ayah lmiynah
15 'et kal-`oreb lmiynow
16 w'et bat (feminine) haya`nah w'et- hatachmac w'et-hashachap w'et- hanets lmiynehuw
17 w'et- hakowc w'et-hashalak w'et- hayanshuwp
18 w'et- hatinshemet w'et-haqa'at w'et- haracham
19 w'et hachaciydah ha'anapah lmiynah w'et- haduwkiypat w'et- ha`Talep.

We find in the companion passage that several of names are interchanged for the six masculine names recorded in Leviticus 11:13-15 and one additional name is written for a total of seven names in Deuteronomy 14:12-14. The alternate and additional names provide for a combined understanding from both passages of scripture making a total number of eight kinds for the masculine unclean fowls of the air, (the `oreb-raven `Aza'zel is then "the eighth and of the seven").

Devarim-Deuteronomy 14:12-18 KJV (21 Names - 7 Masculine)
12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14 And every raven after his kind,
15 And (bath-feminine) the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Devarim-Deuteronomy 14:12-18 TUA (21 Names - 7 Masculine)
12 Wzeh 'sher lo'-to'kluw mehem: hanesher whaperec wha`azniyah
13 whara'ah w'et- ha'ayah whadayah lmiynah
14 w'et kal-`oreb lmiynow
15 w'et bat (feminine) haya`nah w'et- hatachmac w'et-hashachap w'et- hanets lmiynehuw
16 'et- hakowc w'et-hayanshuwp whatinshamet
17 whaqa'at w'et- harachamahw'et- hashalak
18 whachaciydah wha'anapah lmiynahwhaduwkiypat wha`aTalep.

Unclean Fowls of Abomination
1) The Nesher lacerater eagle, (Nebuchadnezzar "Head of Gold" - Babylon)
2) The Perec clawed divider, (Dominion Divided - Parac-Persia)
3) The `Azniyah-`Oz strong, ("Countenance of `Az" - Daniel 8:23 - Yavan)
4) The Da'ah - fast flyer darter
5) The Ra'ah - keen sighted darter
6) The 'Ayah-'iy-woe! - screamer-howler
7) The Dayah - vulture
8) Every `Oreb-raven after his kind

The first three correlate to the Daniel 7 Lion-Bear-Leopard analogy, David and Goliath, Hoshea 13, and Apokalypse 13. In these 21 names we have therefore the numbers of the ten toes and eleven horns.

The Ten Toes are the "daughters of men" which are false (flesh) doctrines.
The Lion heart is the "head of gold" and wings of a nesher-eagle, Babylon.
The Bear is the silver chest and arms divided, Madai-Parac, Media-Persia.
The Leopard is the brass belly with four heads and four wings of a fowl, Yavan.

Four Wings of Yavan
'Iy- Desert nomad howlers of the isles, (HSN#336-339 'iy - 'iyiym).

Breshiyt-Genesis 10:4-5
4 And the sons of Yavan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim-Rodanim.
5 By these were the 'iy-isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Four Heads of Yavan
1) Elishah
2) Tarshish
3) Kittim - Chittim (desert dweller "tsiyiym" of Daniel 11:30)
4) Dodanim - Rodanim (Da'ah - Ra'ah)

https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/enoch-and-the-book-of-giants

And I bet if I was to ask @1Mind1Spirit he would likely already understand the meaning of these things because he appears to know brother Barnabas quite well. :chuckle:

 

[Lon]

No. People who believe like I do are kicked out of forums because they do not believe the same as the majority do, no matter what the argument. I have heard it said that it doesn't matter if we have a good argument....we are different, therefore we are not welcome.

Because YOU make a point of the difference. You'll never understand it is because of being contentious. Here's the deal: You don't believe like I do. Bringing up the "Difference" every chance you get? Yeah, people don't like fighting every day and often you guys are one-trick-ponies with nothing else to add to a forum. Let me ask you: If I came to a JW site and ONLY brought up God is NOT Unitarian every thread I ever started, how long would I last there? Would it be my fault when I was banned? I surely wouldn't feign innocence. I'd know it was my fault.

 

[Lon]

Dagg, they are not interested in truth. They like to display their ego. Like Trump does.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

Talk to me instead 'about' me. You are correct. Look to yourself. Same thing. Don't be a hypocrite. You don't listen either.

 

[Lon]

Uh, you are lying as we speak, there has been no wrong done to you except to your fragile ego.

:nono: You gave your word if I left you alone, you'd leave me alone. You lied. You used "Legion" with a capital "L."

Where are my apologies

Spoiler

for all of the filthy things you have called me and said to me? Where are my apologies for all the times you have lied about me to get me banned from threads where you were loosing your own cool and your arguments? Where are my apologies from you for all of your arrogant words and slanderous accusations about someone you have never met, do not know, know nothing about, and never will? Where are my apologies for your complete ignorance of the scriptures that are constantly posted to you while you instead change the subject like a chameleon and make it into personal attacks because you do not know how else to respond? Where are my apologies for you always making everything personal as you always do? Man up Lon, this is a forum for religious discussion; it really has nothing to do with you or me. And how is it that you think I have no right to respond to anything you say but you have the right to say what ever you want to me? Where is my apology for that arrogance on your part? And how is it that you elsewhere said we had a "covenant" that I had broken? I have never had and never will have any sort of "covenant" with you whatsoever. Where is my apology for that? Aren't you as a Calvinist a "covenant theologian"? How can you not know what a covenant entails? You actually think you can have a covenant with someone you hate online? Do you think I was born yesterday? Where is my apology for that arrogance on your part, (lol)? You must be in some sort of fairy tale world of la-la-land. The truth is I have not asked for any apology from you, I do not want any apologies from you, and I do not expect any apologies from you: but so what? Who cares? Instead I expect you to man up and live up to all of your bragging about your superior education. If you are going to brag about such things as your superior education and your high IQ, (which you also have arrogantly done on several occasions), then how can you not think that others should expect to see some actual evidence of what you claim about your wonderful self? Show me what you know by and through the Word: that is all I really care about and why I am here. I am not here to hear about your problems and listen to your arrogance when you have no clue about what the scripture says and means in any given circumstance.

Your apology was agreeing to ignore you completely and by that, you'd do the same. You lied. I kept my word. You did not. You have an issue with integrity and letting your yes be yes, and your no, no. I agreed to ignore you as long as you did the same. You lied. How does your god feel about you breaking your word? I know how mine feels and I'd have apologized if it were me. You? :nono: You are this horrible in your spiritual life. I'm not. My yes is yes, and my no is no. Not so you. You are untrustworthy and your integrity is such that nobody should enter a pact or promise with you. You can't be trusted. I can. Knowing I had you on ignore, you backstabbed like the coward you are. You always try and tell another they are going to hell. This character trait of lying, is from your own soul dude. You REALLY should have fear and trembling before your God before you EVER tell anyone else they are going to hell. Your soul carries lying like it is a good thing. :nono: It is a lack of integrity before Him. It is NOT godliness.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

And I bet if I was to ask @1Mind1Spirit he would likely already understand the meaning of these things because he appears to know brother Barnabas quite well. :chuckle:

You've done more homework than I.

I learn more from Barnabas every time I read his epistle.

Far as I'm concerned your sharing here is also appreciated.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

I think you are 6 years old. Are you also short?

Zinger... I bet you're 100 and look like a shriveled up version of Gollum from the Lord of the Rings. Age is a good thing... but ugliness is forever.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

YOU make it complicated by saying that just because all three of your trinity members are MENTIONED, that they are EQUAL. How do your citations prove THAT? I've heard Catholics murmur the words "Jesus, Joseph and Mary".....does that mean that Joseph and Mary are equal to Jesus?

If you had a lobotomy ... you couldn't be any more intellectually challenged. Now I have you on record as denying the validity of your very sect's founding father.

Rotflmbo ... fdtslsh... "falling down the stairs... laughing so hard"

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

No Jesus is NOT God Almighty. He says that Jehovah is HIS GOD (John 20:17; Revelation 3:12) and God Almighty doesn't have a God. So by his own words Jesus is not God Almighty.

But you don't honor Jesus' words, do you?

Silly Gollum... "gently tapping your chin with my fist"... He is so!

And thanks for quoting the two books that prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Heck... even your founding father knew!

BRB...

You even admit it HERE... http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...lmighty-quot&p=5032810&viewfull=1#post5032810

That your founding father knew... I mean.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

It is

Spoiler

not "in the days of Jared" because yared also means "to descend" and this did not happen "in the days of Jared", chronologically speaking, but rather at the fall, (this statement in this portion of the passage has been much discussed and debated among scholarship). However there is no need to go into it here for the purposes which follow. The text says that they were in all two hundred but at the close of the above quote we also see that the names in the list were "chiefs of tens", meaning captains of tens. The names in the list with the other three heads amount to twenty one names, that is, the same number of the unclean fowls of the air given in the Torah. The Master once again therefore expounds all of this in the Parable of the Sower.

Matthew 13:3-4 KJV
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

Mark 4:3-4 KJV
3 Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow:
4 And it came to pass, as he sowed, some fell by the way side, and the fowls of the air came and devoured it up.

Luke 8:4-5 KJV
4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.

In the three Synoptic Gospel accounts we read three different names for the answer to the fowls of the air which came and devoured the seed which fell by the compacted soil by the wayside, (which is by the parable an idiom for the heart that is hardened). According to the Master the fowls of the air represent the Wicked one, the Devil, and the Satan.

Matthew 13:18-19 KJV
18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Mark 4:13-15 KJV
13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
14 The sower soweth the word.
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:11-12 KJV
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Spoiler

The first name count discrepancy is fairly easily resolved by the math contained within the text. If there are exactly 200 Watchers which descended upon Ardis, and if the list given above are "chiefs of tens" then there must be exactly 18 names, mathematically speaking, because Sêmîazâz is stated to be the chief ruler set in charge over the "chiefs of tens" who are also named, (i.e. he is the ruler of either the 17 or 18 names which are written in the text; whichever the number of the names turns out to be). Yet the names listed are also "chiefs of tens" so if we therefore have 18 names then they are chiefs over the remaining 180 fallen Watchers, but if 17 names then the remainder would be 170, (which is too small a number by the numbers given within the text itself). Neither should there be 19 names in addition to Sêmîazâz, (totaling 20), because 19 "chiefs of ten" would require a remainder of 190 fallen entities ruled over by their 19 chiefs, (totaling 209). Azâzêl is also not yet named in this section except for that he is probably Sêmîazâz which returns from the desert or wilderness, (scapegoat typology of the scripture).

Therefore there are 18 names which are chiefs over the remaining 180 fallen Watchers. Sêmîazâz, who is afterwards called Azâzêl, rules over the 18 chiefs which in turn rule over the remaining 180 fallen Watchers, (totaling 198), and the addition of Sêmîazâz himself totals 199. In the typology according to the scripture then Semjazâ is probably the Dragon, (which is the "mind of the flesh"), because Sêmîazâz-Azâzêl is most assuredly the same typology of the `Aza'zel mentioned in Leviticus 16. The scapegoat to-for `Aza'zel is the unclean spirit of the "old man" sin nature which eventually returns from the "dry-arid places" of the desert, and with all of the sins upon its mortally wounded head, and with "seven others more wicked than himself" seeking reentry into the former "house" from where he came, (Matthew 12:43-45 and Luke 11:24-26).

200 Fallen Watchers
Sêmjazâ - Dragon - Ruler over all the fallen Watchers

18 "Chiefs of Tens" over 180 Watchers: 18 + 180 = 198

Sêmîazâz ― HSN#8034 Shem (name) HSN#5810 `azaz (stout-pride).
Azâzêl ― HSN#5799 from HSN#5795 and HSN#5810 `Aza'zel
The Leviticus 16 sa`iyr-goat is sent away to-for `Aza'zel.

Original Strong's Ref. #5799
Romanized `aza'zel
Pronounced az-aw-zale'
from HSN5795 and HSN0235; goat of departure; the scapegoat:--scapegoat.

Concerning `Aza'zel the Strong's definition is incorrect. `Aza'zel is much more likely a personal pronoun or proper name as rendered in such versions as the ASV. The fact that the goat which is to be sent away is sent away "to/for" `Aza'zel reveals this to be the case. The `Aza'zel is not the goat but whom the goat is sent away to/for. Aretas is the same typology, that is, king of the desert, or Arabia, (or the Arabah which would not be the same as Arabia but rather the areas north and south of the Salt Sea).

Original Strong's Ref. #5795
Romanized `ez
Pronounced aze
from HSN5810; a she-goat (as strong),
but masculine in plural (which also is used ellipt. for goat's hair):--(she) goat, kid.

Original Strong's Ref. #5810
Romanized `azaz
Pronounced aw-zaz'
a primitive root; to be stout (literally or figuratively):
--harden, impudent, prevail, strengthen (self), be strong.

Enoch VII
1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.
2 And when the Watchers, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
3 Then their leader Semjâzâ said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;
4 And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.
5 But they answered him and said; We all swear;
6 And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.
7 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon-Hermon.
8 That mountain therefore was called Hermon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
9 These are the names of their chiefs: Sêmîazâz who was their leader, Urâkîba, Râmêêl, Kôkabîêl, Râmîêl, Dânêl, Êzêqêêl, Barâqîjâl, Asâêl, Armârôs, Batârêl, Anânêl, Zaqîêl, Samsâpêêl, Satarêl, Tâmîêl, Tûrêl, Jômjâêl, Sariêl.
10 These were their chiefs of tens, prefects of the two hundred, and the remainder were all with them.
11 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees. And the women conceiving brought forth giants,
12 Whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labour of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them;
13 When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them;
14 And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood.
15 Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

Enoch VIII
1 Moreover `Azâzêl taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and of all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.
2 Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways.
3 Semjâzâ taught sorcerers and root-cuttings,
4 Armârôs the resolving of enchantments-sorceries,
5 Barâqîjâl taught astrology,
6 Kôkabîêl the constellations,
7 Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds,
8 Tâmîêl the signs of the earth,
9 Samsâpêêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon.
10 And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.

Thus there are a total of twenty one names: the eighteen chiefs of tens in the list, plus the three, which are Sêmjazâ, Sêmîazâz, and `Azâzêl. These 21 names correspond to the unclean fowls of the air. However all of the names do not appear in each of the separate lists given in Torah. One must put the two lists together for all of the names to be revealed and surely this is by design. Of masculine names combined from both passages there are eight names of unclean fowls including "Every `oreb-raven after his kind", (the `Aza'zel "old man" nature).

Vayikra-Leviticus 11:13-19 KJV (20 Names - 6 Masculine)
13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
15 Every raven after his kind;
16 And ("bath"- feminine untranslated) the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Vayikra-Leviticus 11:13-19 TUA (20 Names - 6 Masculine)
13 W'et- 'eleh tshaqtsuw min- ha`owp ; lo' ye'akluw --sheqets hem: 'Et- hanesher w'et- haperec w'et ha`azniyah
14 w'et- hada'ah w'et- ha'ayah lmiynah
15 'et kal-`oreb lmiynow
16 w'et bat (feminine) haya`nah w'et- hatachmac w'et-hashachap w'et- hanets lmiynehuw
17 w'et- hakowc w'et-hashalak w'et- hayanshuwp
18 w'et- hatinshemet w'et-haqa'at w'et- haracham
19 w'et hachaciydah ha'anapah lmiynah w'et- haduwkiypat w'et- ha`Talep.

We find in the companion passage that several of names are interchanged for the six masculine names recorded in Leviticus 11:13-15 and one additional name is written for a total of seven names in Deuteronomy 14:12-14. The alternate and additional names provide for a combined understanding from both passages of scripture making a total number of eight kinds for the masculine unclean fowls of the air, (the `oreb-raven `Aza'zel is then "the eighth and of the seven").

Devarim-Deuteronomy 14:12-18 KJV (21 Names - 7 Masculine)
12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14 And every raven after his kind,
15 And (bath-feminine) the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

Devarim-Deuteronomy 14:12-18 TUA (21 Names - 7 Masculine)
12 Wzeh 'sher lo'-to'kluw mehem: hanesher whaperec wha`azniyah
13 whara'ah w'et- ha'ayah whadayah lmiynah
14 w'et kal-`oreb lmiynow
15 w'et bat (feminine) haya`nah w'et- hatachmac w'et-hashachap w'et- hanets lmiynehuw
16 'et- hakowc w'et-hayanshuwp whatinshamet
17 whaqa'at w'et- harachamahw'et- hashalak
18 whachaciydah wha'anapah lmiynahwhaduwkiypat wha`aTalep.

Unclean Fowls of Abomination
1) The Nesher lacerater eagle, (Nebuchadnezzar "Head of Gold" - Babylon)
2) The Perec clawed divider, (Dominion Divided - Parac-Persia)
3) The `Azniyah-`Oz strong, ("Countenance of `Az" - Daniel 8:23 - Yavan)
4) The Da'ah - fast flyer darter
5) The Ra'ah - keen sighted darter
6) The 'Ayah-'iy-woe! - screamer-howler
7) The Dayah - vulture
8) Every `Oreb-raven after his kind

The first three correlate to the Daniel 7 Lion-Bear-Leopard analogy, David and Goliath, Hoshea 13, and Apokalypse 13. In these 21 names we have therefore the numbers of the ten toes and eleven horns.

The Ten Toes are the "daughters of men" which are false (flesh) doctrines.
The Lion heart is the "head of gold" and wings of a nesher-eagle, Babylon.
The Bear is the silver chest and arms divided, Madai-Parac, Media-Persia.
The Leopard is the brass belly with four heads and four wings of a fowl, Yavan.

Four Wings of Yavan
'Iy- Desert nomad howlers of the isles, (HSN#336-339 'iy - 'iyiym).

Breshiyt-Genesis 10:4-5
4 And the sons of Yavan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim-Rodanim.
5 By these were the 'iy-isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

Four Heads of Yavan
1) Elishah
2) Tarshish
3) Kittim - Chittim (desert dweller "tsiyiym" of Daniel 11:30)
4) Dodanim - Rodanim (Da'ah - Ra'ah)

https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/enoch-and-the-book-of-giants

And I bet if I was to ask @1Mind1Spirit he would likely already understand the meaning of these things because he appears to know brother Barnabas quite well. :chuckle:

So .... I recommend you go ahead and look to 1Mind for reassurance... because all I hear, from you, is a bit of scripture mixed in with a lot of Daqqism that slides right into garbage so stinky that Oscar the Grouch would change his zip code if your writing ever moved in next door.

 

[freelight]

But there are lots of differences within Christendom itself........

But there are lots of differences within Christendom itself........

Because YOU make a point of the difference. You'll never understand it is because of being contentious. Here's the deal: You don't believe like I do. Bringing up the "Difference" every chance you get? Yeah, people don't like fighting every day and often you guys are one-trick-ponies with nothing else to add to a forum. Let me ask you: If I came to a JW site and ONLY brought up God is NOT Unitarian every thread I ever started, how long would I last there? Would it be my fault when I was banned? I surely wouldn't feign innocence. I'd know it was my fault.

But TOL is not necessarily an official discussion forum sponsored by a particular religious denomination, cult or tradition, as far as I know, even if it might have association/affiliation with Denver Bible Church. It is much more liberal, eclectic and all-inclusive than a JW discussion forum would be, at least I assume that much unless I learn otherwise. Plus the 'Religion' section here on TOL ('Theology would include all kinds of theology, not just 'Christian' per se)...is for discussion on all 'religious subjects, philosophy, cultures, traditions, psychology, etc.

Religion sub-heading:

Discuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.

Note it includes discussion on all religions and related subjects. My own threads and some main subjects I've contributed over the years is cataloged here. - its been very diverse, and I may begin a new thread soon in my usual free liberal explorative creative dialogue fashion, just being 'freelight'. Its all about expanding consciousness, exploring new dimensions, pioneering forward into new and interesting topics. This has always been freelight's forte

You have your own ECT (Exclusively Christian Theology) section (This forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God).... if you want to stick to Bible only or within a traditional-standard Christian Theological context.

HERE however we have free reign to discuss religious subjects, metaphysics, philosophy, psychology, whatever as long as we respect forum rules and guidelines. It would seem a welcome engagement to dialogue from other religious viewpoints and perspectives, to broaden and integrate one's horizons.

 

[daqq]

Because YOU make a point of the difference. You'll never understand it is because of being contentious. Here's the deal: You don't believe like I do. Bringing up the "Difference" every chance you get? Yeah, people don't like fighting every day and often you guys are one-trick-ponies with nothing else to add to a forum. Let me ask you: If I came to a JW site and ONLY brought up God is NOT Unitarian every thread I ever started, how long would I last there? Would it be my fault when I was banned? I surely wouldn't feign innocence. I'd know it was my fault.

Talk to me instead 'about' me. You are correct. Look to yourself. Same thing. Don't be a hypocrite. You don't listen either.

:nono: You gave your word if I left you alone, you'd leave me alone. You lied. You used "Legion" with a capital "L."

Your apology was agreeing to ignore you completely and by that, you'd do the same. You lied. I kept my word. You did not. You have an issue with integrity and letting your yes be yes, and your no, no. I agreed to ignore you as long as you did the same. You lied. How does your god feel about you breaking your word? I know how mine feels and I'd have apologized if it were me. You? :nono: You are this horrible in your spiritual life. I'm not. My yes is yes, and my no is no. Not so you. You are untrustworthy and your integrity is such that nobody should enter a pact or promise with you. You can't be trusted. I can. Knowing I had you on ignore, you backstabbed like the coward you are. You always try and tell another they are going to hell. This character trait of lying, is from your own soul dude. You REALLY should have fear and trembling before your God before you EVER tell anyone else they are going to hell. Your soul carries lying like it is a good thing. :nono: It is a lack of integrity before Him. It is NOT godliness.

"YOU, YOU, YOU, ME, ME, ME", BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

Again, it is not about YOU and me, or YOU and anyone else: you only see it in such terms because you apparently cannot take your own carnal mind off of yourself and your own desire and will, (even though you claim to have no freewill, lol). Either put up or shut up, and as for your crazy idea of a "covenant" between YOU and me; you violate the teachings of Messiah even when you lie about that, for he says:

Matthew 5:34-36 KJV
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

You do therefore speak double evil because you lied when you said we had a "covenant", because I would not do any such thing with a murderous hatemonger, and you only do so to justify yourself before men: but Elohim knows your heart, for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of Elohim, (Luke 16:15), and the same you do at the expense and in opposition to the Testimony of the Messiah whom you claim to know, and whom you claim is YHWH Elohim Almighty. You also therefore do not believe what you claim to believe, just as your pal Evil.Eye, who claims that "Jesus is YHWH", (and `Aza'zel), but neither believes nor applies the holy Testimony of the Master to himself nor in his walk. You are both outright frauds, claiming that "Jesus is YHWH", and yet refusing to even believe his Testimony and apply it to yourselves. This is not an empty accusation but rather the truth because you have both revealed it to be abundantly clear in your own words which proceed from your hearts and come forth out of your mouths.

 

[Lon]

"YOU, YOU, YOU, ME, ME, ME", BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

Again, it is not about YOU and me.

Yes it is. You broke your promise and like a coward backstabbed me in thread against a pact you'd made to ignore me. You lied. That is from YOUR character, not mine. I kept my word. You did not. My character is not in question here. Sorry, that man is you. You are of no character and untrustworthy. You can post a zillion scriptures, doesn't matter, your CHARACTER is in question, therefore so is your every word on TOL. Nobody cares what you post after that. You cannot be trusted. I can. Luke 16:10

 

[daqq]

But TOL is not necessarily an official discussion forum sponsored by a particular religious denomination, cult or tradition, as far as I know, even if it might have association/affiliation with Denver Bible Church. It is much more liberal, eclectic and all-inclusive than a JW discussion forum would be, at least I assume that much unless I learn otherwise. Plus the 'Religion' section here on TOL ('Theology would include all kinds of theology, not just 'Christian' per se)...is for discussion on all 'religious subjects, philosophy, cultures, traditions, psychology, etc.

Religion sub-heading:



Note it includes discussion on all religions and related subjects. My own threads and some main subjects I've contributed over the years is cataloged here. - its been very diverse, and I may begin a new thread soon in my usual free liberal explorative creative dialogue fashion, just being 'freelight'. Its all about expanding consciousness, exploring new dimensions, pioneering forward into new and interesting topics. This has always been freelight's forte

You have your own ECT (Exclusively Christian Theology) section (This forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God).... if you want to stick to Bible only or within a traditional-standard Christian Theological context.

HERE however we have free reign to discuss religious subjects, metaphysics, philosophy, psychology, whatever as long as we respect forum rules and guidelines. It would seem a welcome engagement to dialogue from other religious viewpoints and perspectives, to broaden and integrate one's horizons.

AMEN! :thumb:

 

[daqq]

Yes it is. You broke your promise and like a coward backstabbed me in thread against a pact you'd made to ignore me. You lied. That is from YOUR character, not mine. I kept my word. You did not. My character is not in question here. Sorry, that man is you. You are of no character and untrustworthy. You can post a zillion scriptures, doesn't matter, your CHARACTER is in question, therefore so is your every word on TOL. Nobody cares what you post after that. You cannot be trusted. I can. Luke 16:10

:nono: Just more venomous accusations. :nono: