JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[marhig]

What was Peter preaching in Acts 3:19-21?
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
Jesus will return to earth to bring the Times of Refreshing and the Times of Restitution

Don't you think that's happening now? In those born of God beamup? We are restored through Christ by the spirit and we are refreshed by the word of God cleansing our hearts.

Jesus said that the kingdom comes not by observation, it's not a kingdom in the sense of a nation, the kingdom of God is spiritual, and it is within those born of God. We enter into the kingdom of God through Christ by the Spirit.

John 3

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



Luke, 17

And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

And then there's the other verse that I quoted before, that shows us that the kingdom of God comes by the Holy Spirit

Romans 14

For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost

And there's this

Matthew 6:33

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

How can we seek the kingdom of God, if it is a natural kingdom that will be put in place on the future?

 

[beameup]

Don't you think that's happening now? In those born of God beamup? We are restored through Christ by the spirit and we are refreshed by the word of God cleansing our hearts.
How can we seek the kingdom of God, if it is a natural kingdom that will be put in place on the future?

Mary was promised that Jesus would sit upon the Throne of David:
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the Throne of his father David: - Luke 1:32

Psalm 2 tells us that the earth will be cleansed of evil and a King will rule the earth:
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his Anointed, saying: "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us".
He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my King upon my Holy Hill of Zion. vs.1-6

In the mean time, believers come to faith in Christ and await His "second coming".

 

[SimpleMan77]

JESUS IS NOT YHWH

What was Peter preaching in Acts 3:19-21?
"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."
Jesus will return to earth to bring the Times of Refreshing and the Times of Restitution

Peter was preaching exactly what he did on the day of Pentecost. The translation "when the times of refreshing shall come" was a mis-translation. According to almost every translator, it should have been translated as "that the times of refreshing...". He was telling them they would receive the Holy Ghost if they would repent.
Isaiah 28:11-12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.



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[CherubRam]

Peter was preaching exactly what he did on the day of Pentecost. The translation "when the times of refreshing shall come" was a mis-translation. According to almost every translator, it should have been translated as "that the times of refreshing...". He was telling them they would receive the Holy Ghost if they would repent.
Isaiah 28:11-12 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.



Sent from my iPhone using TOL

I think the refreshing is the resurrection.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Two thrones

Of course you just ignored the facts revealed in the 21st and 22nd chapters of the book of Revelation.

Do you think there are TWO who are the Alpha and Omega and the beginning and the end?

Or do you think that John was in error when he identified the Lord Jesus as the one calling Himself the Alpha and Omega and the beginning and the end?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What has that got to do with the kingdom of God being within us?

Do you really think that the kingdom of God was within the Pharisees to whom the Lord Jesus was speaking?

 

[Lon]

No Lon I wasn't smart in high school

This is about what I see with most JW's. Not a slam, but the valedictorian comment is important. I graduated with honors, not valedictorian, but I'd like a reshot at it.

and I don't care if I'm completely alone in this matter (although I'm not, as the are many who believe as I do)

:nono: Not by the numbers. Your group is very small, not even a percent and as I said, 600 to 1.

and as I said, there was only Noah right in his day so I'm not worried what 600 to my 1 think of me.

As righteous as Noah :think: I didn't know you were this holy :think:

I care only what God thinks of me, and I'm not here to glorify myself or say how good I am

:doh: Too late. You just jumped ahead of the Ark, even among your own Kingdom Hall. Noah wasn't just one in 600, he was one in likely a million. You said you were that guy.

or how well I did in college

:think:

but to glorify my father in heaven,

Glorifying God? Is that what 200 threads saying the 600 are wrong is doing? I realize you haven't been here that long. This evaluation is more about the whole on TOL.

and I don't need to be smart for that

1 Peter 3:15 It doesn't sound like you are ready. How many on TOL have been 'corrected?'

he said that he will give us what to say, and I have complete faith in him, and he's smarter than all of you 600 and more!

:idunno:You are better than everyone in your Kingdom Hall, by your Noahic analogy. God doesn't give any one of the 600 of us, anything to say, just you and you don't study beyond your grades? 2 Timothy 2:15 I've never understood how anyone can get into this kind of hole of thinking. I've never been a crowd follower and am self-analytical. I left a liberal dead church and had to choose another that was 'like' me after reading scriptures on my own. I was only 15. Oddly, I sided with the 600 :think:

We can know all the scriptures but be dead to God

In a way, I agree, but does that person actually 'know' at that point? Even if they memorized them?

it's not having a high flying eduction

:think: Daniel 1:19,20

it's having the power of the Holy Spirit within

John 4:23 Truth & Spirit. Daniel 1:19,20 1 Peter 3:15 2 Timothy 2:15 Acts 17:11

and knowing God and Christ and having complete faith in them, and I do. And nowhere has God said in the Bible that I must believe that Jesus Christ is God to be saved!

Arguments from silence are always awkward and not as firm of a footing for our beliefs. I don't know of a scripture that says you have to believe all of it to be saved, but once we start correcting the Bible, our sure foundation is being pulled apart by our own hands and our faith will be shaken. For me, John 1:1 is clear enough, that it expresses my theological position well. It doesn't talk about the Holy Spirit there, but John 1:1 does express how we are to be both tri- and -une. If you believe the Lord Jesus Christ is 'a' god who accepts worship and our devotion, you have problems with Isaiah and etc. Does it keep you from salvation? Again, I think once we correct or disbelieve any one scripture, we are in trouble, because we are picking at the very foundation we place our hope in.

Perhaps, however, I understand why Unit-Arians keep bringing the subject up with us. It is the issue and difference between fellowship with the 600, and many of the 600 believing you outside of the Faith. I'm not sure I have the words that could give comfort against the need of 200 threads on the same topic, over and over again. C.S. Lewis was convinced someone can not know they are serving Christ and still be His.
The Lord Jesus Christ talked to Samaritans and used them as an example for one who did the loving thing.

By the way, you might see me as thick and uneducated, big deal. I'm glad God doesn't judge us by our college degrees though, luckily God looks at the heart! and I'd rather be with God and a nothing in man's eyes than a high flying something and get high grades doing well for myself in college thanks, and Jesus said that he Holy Spirit will teach us all things, and that's all I need in God, not a college eduction!

If I had to choose, me too. I simply think you can be both.

Here's what Jesus said about many of those who belong to God

Matthew 11

At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes

And here's what Paul says

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Absolutely, but we were talking about 600 "Christians."

So I don't care what anyone thinks of me, I'm fine being a nothing in this world, as long as God is with me, I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man and wait on God to give me understanding, than have man's wisdom and be wise in the flesh and before men!

We all have to stand before our Maker. I don't think we'll get to stand 'with' our respective church at that time, but rather we'll stand alone, I believe. Thus, we are accountable for our own beliefs, no matter our numbers. It isn't like you can go back to school and get valedictorian. I'd like to try if that were possible, but neither of us can go back. Rather, my point was that the valedictorians get to address the whole class. I'm not that guy/girl either (not that I remember him and her or what they really said). I carried my bible and was part of YoungLife. My grades were B average, hence honor roll and just barely at 3.2. I did better in college with a 3.87 for my Masters. So I'd be petty to begrudge you for not being able to go back, the same as me, but it is important when there is a complete disagreement, to talk about what our ability in discernment and discerning capability are. If there is a mutual love for the Lord, there would need to be a discussion but most of these threads are posturing and often playing the 'more spiritual' card. To me, the 1 in 600 numbers are important. I know, per fact, some or a good number of those 600 do not have the heart, are going through the motions. I know a few JW's that way too by friends and interactions. I don't believe Unit-Arians can afford
that, when you are already 1 in 600. The numbers dramatically change by factors of nearly X's 2 for every unfaithful Unit-Arian with the 600 to 1 numbers.

JW's and all other Unit-Arians believe in works-salvation. It may be anathema but it is important to realize a good many JW's don't believe they measure up, they just want to. In that, you'd believe Faith and Hope trump our sins. It is sad there is no assurance though. How is it, that you have such confidence in your beliefs, when you are more hoping and praying for salvation and assurance, than actually having it?

-Lon

 

[SimpleMan77]

I think the refreshing is the resurrection.

It is resurrection power in us - the Holy Ghost.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[marhig]

This is about what I see with most JW's. Not a slam, but the valedictorian comment is important. I graduated with honors, not valedictorian, but I'd like a reshot at it.


:nono: Not by the numbers. Your group is very small, not even a percent and as I said, 600 to 1.
As righteous as Noah :think: I didn't know you were this holy :think:


:doh: Too late. You just jumped ahead of the Ark, even among your own Kingdom Hall. Noah wasn't just one in 600, he was one in likely a million. You said you were that guy.


:think:


Glorifying God? Is that what 200 threads saying the 600 are wrong is doing? I realize you haven't been here that long. This evaluation is more about the whole on TOL.

1 Peter 3:15 It doesn't sound like you are ready. How many on TOL have been 'corrected?'

:idunno:You are better than everyone in your Kingdom Hall, by your Noahic analogy. God doesn't give any one of the 600 of us, anything to say, just you and you don't study beyond your grades? 2 Timothy 2:15 I've never understood how anyone can get into this kind of hole of thinking. I've never been a crowd follower and am self-analytical. I left a liberal dead church and had to choose another that was 'like' me after reading scriptures on my own. I was only 15. Oddly, I sided with the 600 :think:


In a way, I agree, but does that person actually 'know' at that point? Even if they memorized them?


:think: Daniel 1:19,20


John 4:23 Truth & Spirit. Daniel 1:19,20 1 Peter 3:15 2 Timothy 2:15 Acts 17:11

Arguments from silence are always awkward and not as firm of a footing for our beliefs. I don't know of a scripture that says you have to believe all of it to be saved, but once we start correcting the Bible, our sure foundation is being pulled apart by our own hands and our faith will be shaken. For me, John 1:1 is clear enough, that it expresses my theological position well. It doesn't talk about the Holy Spirit there, but John 1:1 does express how we are to be both tri- and -une. If you believe the Lord Jesus Christ is 'a' god who accepts worship and our devotion, you have problems with Isaiah and etc. Does it keep you from salvation? Again, I think once we correct or disbelieve any one scripture, we are in trouble, because we are picking at the very foundation we place our hope in.

Perhaps, however, I understand why Unit-Arians keep bringing the subject up with us. It is the issue and difference between fellowship with the 600, and many of the 600 believing you outside of the Faith. I'm not sure I have the words that could give comfort against the need of 200 threads on the same topic, over and over again. C.S. Lewis was convinced someone can not know they are serving Christ and still be His.
The Lord Jesus Christ talked to Samaritans and used them as an example for one who did the loving thing.


If I had to choose, me too. I simply think you can be both.


Absolutely, but we were talking about 600 "Christians."


We all have to stand before our Maker. I don't think we'll get to stand 'with' our respective church at that time, but rather we'll stand alone, I believe. Thus, we are accountable for our own beliefs, no matter our numbers. It isn't like you can go back to school and get valedictorian. I'd like to try if that were possible, but neither of us can go back. Rather, my point was that the valedictorians get to address the whole class. I'm not that guy/girl either (not that I remember him and her or what they really said). I carried my bible and was part of YoungLife. My grades were B average, hence honor roll and just barely at 3.2. I did better in college with a 3.87 for my Masters. So I'd be petty to begrudge you for not being able to go back, the same as me, but it is important when there is a complete disagreement, to talk about what our ability in discernment and discerning capability are. If there is a mutual love for the Lord, there would need to be a discussion but most of these threads are posturing and often playing the 'more spiritual' card. To me, the 1 in 600 numbers are important. I know, per fact, some or a good number of those 600 do not have the heart, are going through the motions. I know a few JW's that way too by friends and interactions. I don't believe Unit-Arians can afford
that, when you are already 1 in 600. The numbers dramatically change by factors of nearly X's 2 for every unfaithful Unit-Arian with the 600 to 1 numbers.

JW's and all other Unit-Arians believe in works-salvation. It may be anathema but it is important to realize a good many JW's don't believe they measure up, they just want to. In that, you'd believe Faith and Hope trump our sins. It is sad there is no assurance though. How is it, that you have such confidence in your beliefs, when you are more hoping and praying for salvation and assurance, than actually having it?

-Lon

Hi Lon,

Firstly Noah, I wasn't saying that I'm like Noah , I was trying to show that it's not always the majority that are right! Noah was the only right one among everyone else.

Kingdom hall? I've never been a member of any denomination, we have a house meeting and we sit and read the Bible and talk about the things of God. We not a part of any church denomination.

As for the scriptures, I do believe all of them. And I believe that God has what he wants in the Bible.

You talk about "once we start correcting the Bible?" and I think you are referring to what I say regarding our Lord Jesus not being God? But, what about Christ Jesus saying the father is his God? And that the father is the only true God? And even calling God "my God" after he had ascended to the father in heaven? Don't you think that not believing his exact words is not only correcting the Bible, but also changing what our Lord Jesus is saying. He isn't saying anything in a round about way, he's pretty straight forward. He says God is his God, and that he is the only true God and I believe him.

 

[marhig]

Do you really think that the kingdom of God was within the Pharisees to whom the Lord Jesus was speaking?

No, but the kingdom of God is within those born of God.

 

[Lon]

Hi Lon,

Firstly Noah, I wasn't saying that I'm like Noah , I was trying to show that it's not always the majority that are right! Noah was the only right one among everyone else.

Kingdom hall? I've never been a member of any denomination, we have a house meeting and we sit and read the Bible and talk about the things of God. We not a part of any church denomination.

As for the scriptures, I do believe all of them. And I believe that God has what he wants in the Bible.

You talk about "once we start correcting the Bible?" and I think you are referring to what I say regarding our Lord Jesus not being God? But, what about Christ Jesus saying the father is his God? And that the father is the only true God? And even calling God "my God" after he had ascended to the father in heaven? Don't you think that not believing his exact words is not only correcting the Bible, but also changing what our Lord Jesus is saying. He isn't saying anything in a round about way, he's pretty straight forward. He says God is his God, and that he is the only true God and I believe him.

Not necessarily about that, but more about listening to all of scripture. Hebrews, in quoting Psalms, says "God said to my God." Paul uses it as the Father saying "my God" to the Son. Psalm 110:1,5 Matthew 22:4 then see Hebrews 1:8,9 God calls the Son "God" as well as calls Himself God. John 1:1 says 'with' God and 'was' God.

I didn't realize you weren't a JW. As far as intelligent, I think God can overcome that and even insists that He does, but not imho, to the disdain or neglect of being studious, nor to the degradation of one who studies. Paul doesn't make the comment between believers, but between the natural man and the supernatural man, so 600 believers, against the Unit-Arian 1 believer, to me, is significant.

Finally, we were talking about whether a Unit-Arian can be a new creation and saved. I think yes, but I also think one being made in His image, is going to more understand that image he/she is being made into ala Ephesians 2:10 He is able to cause all His own to stand, even if they are wrong about something. His servants are His. -Lon

 

[daqq]

Do you really think that the kingdom of God was within the Pharisees to whom the Lord Jesus was speaking?

That rationality is incorrect because even if the kingdom of Elohim does not currently reside within you yourself, Jerry, you can still be told that "the kingdom of Elohim is within you". In the case of Luke 17:21 he is speaking to them as a group, saying, the kingdom of Elohim is within yourselves. And by the context that is exactly what he means, "The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual-observation: neither shall they say, 'Look here!' or, 'Look there!' for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you!" (yourselves). It is not a visible kingdom, and never will be, because he plainly says that one will not be able to say "Look, here it is over here", or, "Look, there it is over there", and the Testimony of the Master is never going to pass away. Your rationality not only denies the meaning of key words used in the text, (especially entos), but also disrupts and distorts the context which is plainly written within the overall statement. It is not hard to see unless one has a paradigm-mindset blinder which disallows the reader from seeing what the overall statement plainly says.

 

[marhig]

Not necessarily about that, but more about listening to all of scripture. Hebrews, in quoting Psalms, says "God said to my God." Paul uses it as the Father saying "my God" to the Son. Psalm 110:1,5 Matthew 22:4 then see Hebrews 1:8,9 God calls the Son "God" as well as calls Himself God. John 1:1 says 'with' God and 'was' God.

I didn't realize you weren't a JW. As far as intelligent, I think God can overcome that and even insists that He does, but not imho, to the disdain or neglect of being studious, nor to the degradation of one who studies. Paul doesn't make the comment between believers, but between the natural man and the supernatural man, so 600 believers, against the Unit-Arian 1 believer, to me, is significant.

Finally, we were talking about whether a Unit-Arian can be a new creation and saved. I think yes, but I also think one being made in His image, is going to more understand that image he/she is being made into ala Ephesians 2:10 He is able to cause all His own to stand, even if they are wrong about something. His servants are His. -Lon

Hi again Lon,

There are so many scriptures that clearly say that God is the head and God of Christ Jesus, and even that the son is under subjection to the father, that for me, it is impossible to believe otherwise, even Christ Jesus himself says so. I know that God is the God of Christ. But I'm not trying to force others to believe as I do, and I would never condemn others like many here do, I've got no right to, I don't know the heart of others and I'm not God, I'm just stating my what I believe.

And I know that God can overcome anything, and he can help those who aren't highly intelligent to overcome, because by his grace, he's helped me to open my mouth, I am naturally so shy, yet God has helped me overcome that, and he helps me speak. And with respect, it was you who started talking about studying and education etc. And how I can't be right being at the ratio of only 1 to 600 others here on TOL. I was merely pointing out that we don't need an education in God. If we have the author of the book within our hearts through the Spirit, shouldn't he be able to teach us what we need to know?

We can go to college and learn everything we want to and need to, to help us in our lives in this world and it's good to study the scriptures. But we don't need to go to college, or have a higher education be strong in God. We need the love of God, the power of the Holy Spirit within, and we need true faith. Having complete faith in God, and living by his will and putting our lives in his hands, and trusting in him, is what God requires of us, and for us to be ready for him to use when needed, and not for us to try and work everything out ourselves as some do, he will give us what we need to know through progressive revelation, if we continue in his goodness and live by his will, whether we have an education or not, it's heart condition that matters. And he will give us what we need to say when we need it. And he will give us the word fresh just like drinking fresh water from a flowing river in up a high mountain, fresh pure living water, straight from the clouds of heaven delivered fresh to the heart of the earth.

God is a living God, his word is a living word and it's given fresh daily to those who are alive in God, born anew, through his Holy son Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit. God looks at the heart first and foremost and he doesn't need us to be highly intelligent, we need to have a soft heart for the seed to sink deep into. And God can raise us from death to life and bring us from darkness to light and give us a mouth to speak. But we must first believe in Christ Jesus and believe the gospel, repent, and be willing to lay down our lives for others, and put God first and live by his will, putting the living God before ourselves and in doing so, we will be truly following Jesus Christ, loving God with all our hearts and minds, and God will never leave us or forsake us. Our Lord Jesus said that no-one comes to the father except through him, and he is the way, the truth and the life, and those born of God worship the father in Spirit and in truth.



.

 

[Lon]

Hi again Lon,

There are so many scriptures that clearly say that God is the head and God of Christ Jesus, and even that the son is under subjection to the father, that for me, it is impossible to believe otherwise, even Christ Jesus himself says so. I know that God is the God of Christ. But I'm not trying to force others to believe as I do, and I would never condemn others like many here do, I've got no right to, I don't know the heart of others and I'm not God, I'm just stating my what I believe.

I agree that the Father is His God and our God. That doesn't mean 'Creator' by any necessity. That is why I am Tri-une.

And I know that God can overcome anything, and he can help those who aren't highly intelligent to overcome, because by his grace, he's helped me to open my mouth, I am naturally so shy, yet God has helped me overcome that, and he helps me speak. And with respect, it was you who started talking about studying and education etc. And how I can't be right being at the ratio of only 1 to 600 others here on TOL. I was merely pointing out that we don't need an education in God. If we have the author of the book within our hearts through the Spirit, shouldn't he be able to teach us what we need to know?

There is a difference between intelligence and study. They don't necessarily mean the same thing. There are all kinds of reasons someone might not do well in school but it doesn't mean not intelligent. My point is, that by the numbers, the majority of us are tri-une, and most can tell you why they are tri-une. Oddly, people who are not Trinitarian make it a point of contention over and over and over and over again. If I were 1 against 600 unless I was called to be a martyr, I'd not bring it up.

We can go to college and learn everything we want to and need to, to help us in our lives in this world and it's good to study the scriptures. But we don't need to go to college, or have a higher education be strong in God. We need the love of God, the power of the Holy Spirit within, and we need true faith. Having complete faith in God, and living by his will and putting our lives in his hands, and trusting in him, is what God requires of us, and for us to be ready for him to use when needed, and not for us to try and work everything out ourselves as some do, he will give us what we need to know through progressive revelation, if we continue in his goodness and live by his will, whether we have an education or not, it's heart condition that matters. And he will give us what we need to say when we need it. And he will give us the word fresh just like drinking fresh water from a flowing river in up a high mountain, fresh pure living water, straight from the clouds of heaven delivered fresh to the heart of the earth.

Only, as I've said, we need to be careful in challenging those who have been studying longer and have more biblical tools like the language and years of 10 hour bible study by assignment and necessity. For me, it was excellent discipline.

God is a living God, his word is a living word and it's given fresh daily to those who are alive in God, born anew, through his Holy son Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit. God looks at the heart first and foremost and he doesn't need us to be highly intelligent, we need to have a soft heart for the seed to sink deep into. And God can raise us from death to life and bring us from darkness to light and give us a mouth to speak. But we must first believe in Christ Jesus and believe the gospel, repent, and be willing to lay down our lives for others, and put God first and live by his will, putting the living God before ourselves and in doing so, we will be truly following Jesus Christ, loving God with all our hearts and minds, and God will never leave us or forsake us. Our Lord Jesus said that no-one comes to the father except through him, and he is the way, the truth and the life, and those born of God worship the father in Spirit and in truth.

Again the point: We should be careful when 100 of the 600 have studied long and hard as well. It isn't about your personal walk with God as much as it is about discussions like this on TOL and whether one is up to the task of debating 'against' the 600. -Lon

 

[marhig]

I agree that the Father is His God and our God. That doesn't mean 'Creator' by any necessity. That is why I am Tri-une.

There is a difference between intelligence and study. They don't necessarily mean the same thing. There are all kinds of reasons someone might not do well in school but it doesn't mean not intelligent. My point is, that by the numbers, the majority of us are tri-une, and most can tell you why they are tri-une. Oddly, people who are not Trinitarian make it a point of contention over and over and over and over again. If I were 1 against 600 unless I was called to be a martyr, I'd not bring it up.

Only, as I've said, we need to be careful in challenging those who have been studying longer and have more biblical tools like the language and years of 10 hour bible study by assignment and necessity. For me, it was excellent discipline.

Again the point: We should be careful when 100 of the 600 have studied long and hard as well. It isn't about your personal walk with God as much as it is about discussions like this on TOL and whether one is up to the task of debating 'against' the 600. -Lon

I have never ever brought up whether God is triune or not first before anyone else. I have only ever posted in threads that others have started. And to me it seems that many who believe in the trinity are far quicker to judge those who don't believe in a triune God than those who don't. Have you not seen how we are treated, even though we love God and Christ, that's not enough we must believe in the trinity to be saved according many here. Yet not one person can show me where it says this in the the Bible. Yet they condemn us to hell. I have never, and would never do this to another person, I've got no right to, and only God can say who is going where when we die.

And just as the 600 can say why they are triune, I can say why I am not triune, and the reason is because the Bible clearly shows us the God is the head as God of Christ Jesus too, and even Jesus himself calls God his God and father and I believe him.

Also, if we are talking with one or 600, it doesn't matter as long as we bare witness to the truth and speak only what God gives us to speak, and he will never let us down and he will always give us what we need to speak when we need it. I have complete faith in him.

And do you really believe that studying longer and having more biblical tools is going to make a person stronger in God and more "up to the task" than those who are born of God and have the Holy Spirit within their hearts? I'm sure that the Pharisees would have studied for hours and they would have known the scriptures inside and out, but without God it's nothing. It is the Spirit of the living God that brings forth life! And those who have true faith, who are living witnesses, born of God and worship the father in Spirit and in truth and live by his will, will be given what they need when they need it. And excellent discipline for me is to love the LORD my God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength, and to live by his will and obey him.

 

[jamie]

The one true God doesn't have a mom. No one to wish a happy Mother's Day. Sad.

 

[jamie]

The one true God is the most high God, he is without equal.

 

[Lon]

I have never ever brought up whether God is triune or not first before anyone else. I have only ever posted in threads that others have started. And to me it seems that many who believe in the trinity are far quicker to judge those who don't believe in a triune God than those who don't. Have you not seen how we are treated, even though we love God and Christ, that's not enough we must believe in the trinity to be saved according many here. Yet not one person can show me where it says this in the the Bible. Yet they condemn us to hell. I have never, and would never do this to another person, I've got no right to, and only God can say who is going where when we die.

For me, if I was on a Unit-Arian website, not wanting to make waves, I'd avoid threads where that was the conversation. There are a few Unit-Arians that think we 600 aren't Christians and make a point of saying so on TOL. You have to understand the debate in TOL context. Joining in, without realizing the accusatory both ways, would have you not realizing the whole picture.

And just as the 600 can say why they are triune, I can say why I am not triune, and the reason is because the Bible clearly shows us the God is the head as God of Christ Jesus too, and even Jesus himself calls God his God and father and I believe him.

I believe Him too, all of scriptures. John 1:1 is clear enough.

Also, if we are talking with one or 600, it doesn't matter as long as we bare witness to the truth and speak only what God gives us to speak, and he will never let us down and he will always give us what we need to speak when we need it. I have complete faith in him.

Matthew 10:19 but the context is to the Apostles being arrested. The disciples had been with the Lord Jesus Christ 3 years, learning 24/7. They weren't ignorant. Directions to us, have always been to study. 2 Timothy 3:16

And do you really believe that studying longer and having more biblical tools is going to make a person stronger in God and more "up to the task" than those who are born of God and have the Holy Spirit within their hearts?

Yes. The way to be more like Jesus, is to spend more time with Jesus. That means reading and studying your Bible. He plants His Spirit in everyone who is a new creation, yet scripture tells us to study it. 2 Timothy 2:15 2 Timothy 3:16 Acts 17:11

I'm sure that the Pharisees would have studied for hours and they would have known the scriptures inside and out, but without God it's nothing. It is the Spirit of the living God that brings forth life! And those who have true faith, who are living witnesses, born of God and worship the father in Spirit and in truth and live by his will, will be given what they need when they need it. And excellent discipline for me is to love the LORD my God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength, and to live by his will and obey him.

Agree, but when the Lord Jesus Christ answered the Samaritan woman, when she said almost the same thing you did, He told her the day was coming and now here, when just the one would no longer suffice. John 4:19-22

 

[meshak]

You talk about "once we start correcting the Bible?" and I think you are referring to what I say regarding our Lord Jesus not being God? But, what about Christ Jesus saying the father is his God? And that the father is the only true God? And even calling God "my God" after he had ascended to the father in heaven? Don't you think that not believing his exact words is not only correcting the Bible, but also changing what our Lord Jesus is saying. He isn't saying anything in a round about way, he's pretty straight forward. He says God is his God, and that he is the only true God and I believe him.

they are so smart and complicated and educated. so they don't understand simple word of Jesus such as above statement.

 

[meshak]

I have never ever brought up whether God is triune or not first before anyone else. I have only ever posted in threads that others have started. And to me it seems that many who believe in the trinity are far quicker to judge those who don't believe in a triune God than those who don't. Have you not seen how we are treated, even though we love God and Christ, that's not enough we must believe in the trinity to be saved according many here. Yet not one person can show me where it says this in the the Bible. Yet they condemn us to hell. I have never, and would never do this to another person, I've got no right to, and only God can say who is going where when we die.

And just as the 600 can say why they are triune, I can say why I am not triune, and the reason is because the Bible clearly shows us the God is the head as God of Christ Jesus too, and even Jesus himself calls God his God and father and I believe him.

Also, if we are talking with one or 600, it doesn't matter as long as we bare witness to the truth and speak only what God gives us to speak, and he will never let us down and he will always give us what we need to speak when we need it. I have complete faith in him.

And do you really believe that studying longer and having more biblical tools is going to make a person stronger in God and more "up to the task" than those who are born of God and have the Holy Spirit within their hearts? I'm sure that the Pharisees would have studied for hours and they would have known the scriptures inside and out, but without God it's nothing. It is the Spirit of the living God that brings forth life! And those who have true faith, who are living witnesses, born of God and worship the father in Spirit and in truth and live by his will, will be given what they need when they need it. And excellent discipline for me is to love the LORD my God with all my heart, mind, soul and strength, and to live by his will and obey him.

excellent, amen.