Jesus is God.

freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
God-Man synthesis..........................

God-Man synthesis..........................

SonOfCaleb said:
Im not sure if many in this thread are familiar with the meaning of Jesus name but it actually means “Jehovah Is Salvation”. The obvious question then is why would Jesus if he was God have a name that gives credence to someone else....
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Yes,...'Jehovah's salvation'....or 'Jehovah saves' :) - or Yahweh, depending on your preferred version of the 'divine name'.
But many names speak of God's attributes or characteristics given to other men,....besides that we ought to note that the humanity of Jesus cannot be denied, so that no matter what metaphysical, gnostic or pagan God-man concept you place upon Jesus and his special birth,...he always maintains his status as a man anointed by God to be his servant and representative in the earth, as in the Jewish messianic tradition. Its only when things are added into the mix here, either of Jesus pre-existence or merging with the divine logos or spirit of 'God', and this affecting his constitution, that things get interesting ;) - hence the centuries of church councils contending over the confusion of his 'human' and 'divine' natures.
 
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SonOfCaleb

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God's Truth said:
Is that all you got to say?
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Yup. Why would i belabour the point with you when you believe Jesus is God, and yet Jesus name means "Jehovah is Salvation" which obviously doesnt support your belief? There's no need to repeat myself when A) Jesus name proves salvation actually comes from Jehovah God alone and B) Jesus is clearly subject to THE God being of course the Son of God. The evidence that Jesus and God are seperate and unique individuals is overwhelming in the Bible. Wether you choose to believe that is of course your perogative. But repeating yourself is obviously a futile discussion.
 
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Nameless.In.Grace

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SonOfCaleb said:
Yes unequivocally. 2 Timothy 3:16 says "All scripture is inspired of God". The Bible after all is Gods own word which as Jeremiah said in 42:5 is "true and faithful".
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Amen!

What do you make of Christ's words to the Sanhedrin that led to His crucifixion?


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
 
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SonOfCaleb

Active member
freelight said:
Yes,...'Jehovah's salvation'....or 'Jehovah saves' :) - or Yahweh, depending on your preferred version of the 'divine name'.
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Etymologically 'Jehovah's salvation' is the literal translation of the name Jesus or Yeshua or Yehohshua in Hebrew.(Notice the obvious linguistic similarity to Joshua of Yehohshua which also carries the same 'meaning' as Jesus name, Jehovah is Salvation). Some translators prefer to render the name in English as Jehovah saves. Yahweh is the Hebrew name for Jehovah or Jehovah God. They are two completely seperate names.
Ultimately the Jesus name is a tribute to Jehovahs name which was common in Judaic tradition, numerous Jewish names bearing some form of the divine name Jehovah in their name. Thus its clear that the two are seperate persons and only one of them was worshipped by the Jews, Jehovah God.

freelight said:
But many names speak of God's attributes or characteristics given to other men,....besides that we ought to note that the humanity of Jesus cannot be denied, so that no matter what metaphysical, gnostic or pagan God-man concept you place upon Jesus and his special birth,...he always maintains his status as a man anointed by God to be his servant and representative in the earth, as in the Jewish messianic tradition. Its only when things are added into the mix here, either of Jesus pre-existence or merging with the divine logos or spirit of 'God', and this affecting his constitution, that things get interesting ;) - hence the centuries of church councils contending over the confusion of his 'human' and 'divine' natures.
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I like your style freelight...You seem to be well read and versed academically on the Bible. We shoud talk more...Logos (The Greek for 'Word') actually refers to Jesus in John 1:1. Start a thread on it as its a very interesting topic.

And Jesus or Michael had a pre-human existence as you know. As a spirit and as a human Jesus was obviously divine as his direct origin was from God.
 
freelight

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
logos insights......

logos insights......

SonOfCaleb said:
I like your style freelight...You seem to be well read and versed academically on the Bible. We shoud talk more...Logos (The Greek for 'Word') actually refers to Jesus in John 1:1. Start a thread on it as its a very interesting topic.

And Jesus or Michael had a pre-human existence as you know. As a spirit and as a human Jesus was obviously divine as his direct origin was from God.
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Hi,

Thanks,....the arena of 'Christology' covers many points,...but my views although including bibilical studies/scholarship also goes beyond such confines into the area of universal spirituality, theosophy and metaphysics. NT Christology is a 'loaded' subject of course, and there were/are so many schools here, from full Arian to full Trinitarian, and many sub divisions between, and more far out views, which are found in other non-canonical texts and schools of thought on who Jesus is and where he is in the great 'pantheon' so to speak ;)

On this little spree for now, I'm coasting a more liberal spirit vibe, seeing many points of view, but one consciousness considering them all. The 'logos' in John's gospel is controversial to a degree, as per being a greek philosophical concept not necessarily 'personalized', but was a concept, plan, purpose and logic invested into the personal ministry of Jesus as he was sent and anointed by 'God', so Jesus embodied and personalized in his ministry the 'logos' of God, however one interprets that,...he was expressing the plan, purpose, wisdom, logic of God....as the anointed Son of God sent forth to reveal the Father. Again we get back into various aspects of Unitarian vs. Trinitarian perspectives here.
 
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SonOfCaleb said:
Yup. Why would i belabour the point with you when you believe Jesus is God, and yet Jesus name means "Jehovah is Salvation" which obviously doesnt support your belief? There's no need to repeat myself when A) Jesus name proves salvation actually comes from Jehovah God alone and B) Jesus is clearly subject to THE God being of course the Son of God. The evidence that Jesus and God are seperate and unique individuals is overwhelming in the Bible. Wether you choose to believe that is of course your perogative. But repeating yourself is obviously a futile discussion.
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God came as a Man. Who should a Man pray to?
 
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SonOfCaleb said:
Yes unequivocally. 2 Timothy 3:16 says "All scripture is inspired of God". The Bible after all is Gods own word which as Jeremiah said in 42:5 is "true and faithful".
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It would be more accurate to say the scriptures are an account of the true and faithfulness of God's word, His Word being a living word and by believing the account can it only be received. ". . . . . It is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every [Living] Word of God". Luke 4:4 (KJV) (cf Deut 8:3 KJV)The connotation points to the not yet available new birth from above provided for by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.. See John 20:22 KJV.
 
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SonOfCaleb

Active member
freelight said:
The 'logos' in John's gospel is controversial to a degree, as per being a greek philosophical concept not necessarily 'personalized', but was a concept, plan, purpose and logic invested into the personal ministry of Jesus as he was sent and anointed by 'God', so Jesus embodied and personalized in his ministry the 'logos' of God, however one interprets that,...he was expressing the plan, purpose, wisdom, logic of God....as the anointed Son of God sent forth to reveal the Father. Again we get back into various aspects of Unitarian vs. Trinitarian perspectives here.
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The Apostle John certainly did not use the word Logos in any
Greek philosophical context
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. The book of John was written in Greek hence why he used the word ΛΟΓΟΣ, which simply means word in Greek. Catholic tradition has leant heavily from the works of Tertullian an early 2nd Century Christian apologist, who vainly attempted to reconcile the Logos of Greek Philosophy with John 1:1. This ultimately led to the Trinity doctrine and the adoption of even more unchristian and pagan teachings into Christendom.

John also didn't use Logos in any esoteric context as Logos is not a concept in the Bible and refers specfically to a person. As you've correctly identified the Logos John speaks of is Jesus who as Gods own spokesman is the literal embodiment of Gods word.

While this verse Isaiah 55:11 was originally written in Hebrew it harmonizes with what John said regarding the word (Jesus):-

"11 So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do".

Jesus essentially agreed with Isaiah as at John 6:38 he says "38 for I have come down from heaven to do, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me".

Notice that A) Jesus acknowledges where he came from - Heaven (therefore he is divine). And B) He said he came to do the will of the one who sent him, Jehovah God. Thus to your original point the confusion Catholicism and most of Christendoms Trinitarians have in trying to understand John 1:1 is because they're incorrectly attempting to reconcile ancient pagan beliefs that have been adopted by Christendom that are entirely unscriptural, as from verse 38 alone its plain as day Jesus is NOT God.
 
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SonOfCaleb

Active member
God's Truth said:
God came as a Man. Who should a Man pray to?
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Jehovah God. The same as Jesus when on Earth as a man did.

Recall the so called Our Father a prayer that is often recited by Catholics:-

Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Jesus said these words when instructing his disciples on how to pray. Note the opening words of Matthew 6:9-13 in the NWT "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified [Our Father, Who art in heaven Hallowed be Thy Name]". Its self evident here Jesus was praying to someone. In additon he says "Let your name be sanctified". He's obviously not praying to himself, nor referring to himself here. So whose name is he telling his followers to pray for sanctification or to be made hallowed (holy), JEHOVAH GOD.

The tragedy of the application of this prayer by Catholics is for millenia Catholics have been praying for Gods name to be sanctified and yet none of them know whats Gods name is, and neither do they use it anywhere in their worship.
 
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Prizebeatz1

Prizebeatz1

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Jesus is God.

God's Truth said:
Do you not know that salvation comes from the Lord? Do you know you cannot have salvation unless you come through the Lord Jesus?
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This sounds like salvation of the personality to me. The true salvation of God is unconditional, infinite, eternal, universal and timeless. This is what the literal Jesus Christ represents.


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Prizebeatz1 said:
This sounds like salvation of the personality to me. The true salvation of God is unconditional, infinite, eternal, universal and timeless. This is what the literal Jesus Christ represents.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
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What you say does not just sound like some new age mumbo jumbo, it is.

God's salvation is conditional.

How about this---

All knees will bow.

That sounds pretty conditional to me. LOL

Romans 14:11 It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'"

Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
 
God's Truth

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If a person is living on this earth, and they want the kingdom of God in their heart, if they want to be saved, they must come through Jesus.

If a person has died and appeared before God, they must go through Jesus.

If a person is in prison/Hell, they want to get out and be saved, they will have to go through Jesus.
 
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