And you don't believe Jesus died do you?
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
And you don't believe Jesus died do you?
That is not true. Hindus believe in one god. Hinduism teaches there is only one god Brahman. But there are many manifestations of the same god. Not quite unlike Christians believing in the trinity where god manifests as the rather, the son and the Holy Ghost.
In fact hindus have their own trinity, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
To your question. Why believe in many gods when you can believe in one true god?
Some are more religious than others.
By your reasoning only the Holy Ghost remains. God came to earth as Jesus. Jesus was killed/crucified. The gospels say Jesus appeared to them in the flesh like an ordinary man and even asked for food because he was hungry. If Jesus reincarnated as god there would be no need to feed him earthy food. So it appears god/Jesus was killed and their reincarnate turned out to be just another mortal human.
It makes sense only the Holy Ghost remains in heaven because the Christians are waiting for Jesus second coming. But how can only the Holy Ghost create both the father and son? It is after all ranked below the other two.
God's Truth
New member
Your gods lived sinful lives. Your gods are not gods at all but demons.
God's Truth
New member
You don't believe you are acting evil with that question. Be more careful what you say, and how you say it.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
You didn't hear from God since your supposed messiah.
We don't need a middle man, we pray directly to the one and only true God J-H-W-H.
Praying to anybody else than Him is idolatry.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
No. ONLY J-H-W-H is God, besides Him there is no God:
Deuteronomy 4:35 “You were shown these things so that you might know that Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is no other.”
Deuteronomy 4:39 “Acknowledge and take to heart this day that Y-H-W-H is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.”
II Samuel 7:22 “How great you are, O Sovereign Y-H-W-H! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”
I Kings 8:60 “so that all the peoples of the earth may know that Y-H-W-H is God and that there is no other.”
I Chronicles 17:20 “There is no one like you, O Y-H-W-H, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears.”
II Chronicles 6:14 “O Y-H-W-H, God of Israel, there is no God like you in heaven or on earth.”
Nehemiah 9:6 “You alone are Y-H-W-H.”
Isaiah 45:21-23 “You are my witnesses," declares Y-H-W-H, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."
Isaiah 44:6 “This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.”
Isaiah 45:5-6 “I am Y-H-W-H , and there is no other; apart from me there is no God. I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me, so that from the rising of the sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides me."
Isaiah 45:21-23 “Declare what is to be, present it- let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, Y-H-W-H? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.”
Joel 2:27 “Then you will know that I am in Israel, that I am Y-H-W-H your God, and that there is no other;”
Exodus 20:1-3 “And God spoke all these words: "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.”
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
God is NOT a man:
"God is not human, that he should lie" Num 23:19
"He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a human being, that he should change his mind.” 1 Samuel 15:29
"For I am God, and not a man— the Holy One among you." Hosea 11:9
There is only ONE God who IS ONE, and not three.
"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."
Isaiah 5:20
WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THREE ONE AND ONE THREE!!
Revelation 1:16-18 King James Version (KJV)
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me,Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Hey... Wheel of .... "traditions of men"! When are you going to show us how the verses in your wheel you posted supports your beliefs... ? When they clearly support mine!!! :think:? You posted the verses so show us why!!! :readthis:
Man up.... you can even take the needed time to consult others to tell you what to believe and post!!! :cigar:
OR... perhaps you are just a Spiritual Sissy...???
each:Paul
Bright Raven... your not seeing... Like I have said before... I can not make the blind to see... but perhaps show that God can not die!!! Verse 18 shows Jesus was dead!!! :think:
Did Jesus really die? Of course he did. The Bible states that fact in many verses. The Bible also states that only God has immortality. 1 Timothy 6:16:
"Who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, and whom no human being has seen or can see."
Not to mention the fact that this verse says that no one has or can see God. Thousands of people saw Jesus. Back to the original topic. People claim that Jesus is fully God and fully man. Let’s take a look at the creed from which this idea comes from:
DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON
(451 AD)
Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, WITHOUT DIVISION, WITHOUT SEPARATION; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
Now let’s take a look at one of the many verses that speak of God raising Jesus. Acts 2:32 states:
"God raised this Jesus"
Who raised this Jesus? GOD! Notice that it does not say "the Father," but "God." Unless we discard every known rule of language, we can see that Jesus is not included in the term God. Another point to be made is that God is alive and Jesus is dead. God is raising Jesus from the dead. As Timothy pointed out before, God is immortal, He cannot die. Jesus on the other hand is DEAD. If you believe Jesus to be God, then it is obvious that Jesus was never truly dead because he did in fact raise himself from the dead. A huge problem arises with this absurd idea in that the forgiveness of our sins comes only through the death of Jesus Christ as the Bible states. If Jesus is God then there was no real death because God is raising Jesus. Do you think that the Bible is wrong or that the creeds that were created by men that made Jesus God are wrong. Someone is wrong, the question is who, the writers of the Bible or the writers of the creeds?
This idea of a dual nature comes from Greek philosophy, it is called Dualism.
Dualism - The view that reality may be divided into two essential forces. There are two forms of this understanding. From a cosmic perspective, the world struggles between two opposing forces - typically, one of evil and one of good. From a philosophical approach, the essence of a person is divided between two incompatible natures - that of the body and that of the soul. Early Christianity incorporated both views from those religions and philosophies with which it came in contact. This is the same concept used not only in Greek philosophy, but also in Greek mythology. Hercules is the son of Zeus and the mortal Alcmene. He had a dual nature, he was a man that had supernatural strength which he inherited from his father Zeus. The Pharaohs were godmen and so were the Caesars. The Bible even provides us with an example of this belief in Acts 14:11 when God healed a crippled man through Paul and Barnabas:
"When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in human form."
The idea of gods becoming men was very prevalent in the Roman-Greco world. This is why it was so natural to inject this belief into Christianity. As you can see, the idea of Dualism is the exact definition that Trinitarians have used for Jesus: He has two natures. He is fully God and fully Man. This is stated in the Chalcedon Creed of 451 AD. Jesus is not a godman, he is the Anointed (the Messiah).
If you want to understand who Jesus is you have to understand what his most important title means, "Messiah." Without an understanding of what it means to be the Messiah you will never really understand Jesus. He is after all, Jesus the Christ (Messiah).
Study harder...
oly::sherlock:Paul
Bright Raven... your not seeing... Like I have said before... I can not make the blind to see... but perhaps show that God can not die!!! Verse 18 shows Jesus was dead!!! :think:
Did Jesus really die? Of course he did. The Bible states that fact in many verses. The Bible also states that only God has immortality. 1 Timothy 6:16:
"Who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, and whom no human being has seen or can see."
Not to mention the fact that this verse says that no one has or can see God. Thousands of people saw Jesus. Back to the original topic. People claim that Jesus is fully God and fully man. Let’s take a look at the creed from which this idea comes from:
DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON
(451 AD)
Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, WITHOUT DIVISION, WITHOUT SEPARATION; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.
Now let’s take a look at one of the many verses that speak of God raising Jesus. Acts 2:32 states:
"God raised this Jesus"
Who raised this Jesus? GOD! Notice that it does not say "the Father," but "God." Unless we discard every known rule of language, we can see that Jesus is not included in the term God. Another point to be made is that God is alive and Jesus is dead. God is raising Jesus from the dead. As Timothy pointed out before, God is immortal, He cannot die. Jesus on the other hand is DEAD. If you believe Jesus to be God, then it is obvious that Jesus was never truly dead because he did in fact raise himself from the dead. A huge problem arises with this absurd idea in that the forgiveness of our sins comes only through the death of Jesus Christ as the Bible states. If Jesus is God then there was no real death because God is raising Jesus. Do you think that the Bible is wrong or that the creeds that were created by men that made Jesus God are wrong. Someone is wrong, the question is who, the writers of the Bible or the writers of the creeds?
This idea of a dual nature comes from Greek philosophy, it is called Dualism.
Dualism - The view that reality may be divided into two essential forces. There are two forms of this understanding. From a cosmic perspective, the world struggles between two opposing forces - typically, one of evil and one of good. From a philosophical approach, the essence of a person is divided between two incompatible natures - that of the body and that of the soul. Early Christianity incorporated both views from those religions and philosophies with which it came in contact. This is the same concept used not only in Greek philosophy, but also in Greek mythology. Hercules is the son of Zeus and the mortal Alcmene. He had a dual nature, he was a man that had supernatural strength which he inherited from his father Zeus. The Pharaohs were godmen and so were the Caesars. The Bible even provides us with an example of this belief in Acts 14:11 when God healed a crippled man through Paul and Barnabas:
"When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they cried out in Lycaonian, "The gods have come down to us in human form."
The idea of gods becoming men was very prevalent in the Roman-Greco world. This is why it was so natural to inject this belief into Christianity. As you can see, the idea of Dualism is the exact definition that Trinitarians have used for Jesus: He has two natures. He is fully God and fully Man. This is stated in the Chalcedon Creed of 451 AD. Jesus is not a godman, he is the Anointed (the Messiah).
If you want to understand who Jesus is you have to understand what his most important title means, "Messiah." Without an understanding of what it means to be the Messiah you will never really understand Jesus. He is after all, Jesus the Christ (Messiah).
Study harder...
Paul
All I have to say to you Pierac is "What sayeth the Scripture?" Who is the First and the Last in Revelation 1:17?
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is sinless.
How many mere men do you know that have not ever sinned?
Give me scripture from the Old Testament.
God's Truth
New member
You have needed prophets. That is whom God spoke through.
Are you now denying Abraham and Moses?
God has not spoken to the Jews since the Prophet Jesus.
You had better listen to him.
Most of the stories related in the Bible is god speaking to prophets and they retelling the message. So there is a selection bias apparent here. What is even worse. In a court of law all that would be considered hearsay which is regarded with low reliability.
In fact hearing voices and seeing godly figures are associated with hallucinations.
Why would god resort to hallucinogenic experiences to relay his messages? Will legalizing pot enhance those Christian experience?
achduke
Active member
Rev 1:17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Rev 1:17 is talking about Yehoshua. For God does not die. Yehoshua is the temple of God so when Yehoshua is speaking it is the will of the Father that is speaking. The Body is not God. The Body is the temple of God.
Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
So what? Was Jesus saved by works of the law?
musterion
Well-known member
Hey... Wheel of .... "traditions of men"! When are you going to show us how the verses in your wheel you posted supports your beliefs... ? When they clearly support mine!!! :think:? You posted the verses so show us why!!! :readthis:
Man up.... you can even take the needed time to consult others to tell you what to believe and post!!! :cigar:
OR... perhaps you are just a Spiritual Sissy...???
Paul
The chart is self-explanatory for anyone who verifies the verse references for himself, which you have not done.
Prove the chart wrong. Choose any area of corresponding sectors from top and bottom of the chart. You pick...do one or do them all. Show that the verses do not correspond and so do not show what the chart says they show.
That's the only way you can prove you're correct.
Cruciform
New member
Back to Post #659.
I've already provided proof that Jesus is God, to which you responded by claiming that it wasn't in fact proof. Therefore, I'm asking exactly what you would accept as "proof." (Post #659.)
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Here are 2 claims Jesus made to suggest he was god.
John 8:58
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
But in the very next verse Jesus makes a very ungodly retreat.
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one."
But in the next verse Jesus gives a very convoluted answer before retreating saying metaphorically all those that do gods work are gods.
31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
Odd that god has to fear being stoned and forced to go into hiding. Is it possible Jesus got so good in giving them the slip that the third time he claimed to be the Christ. They crucified him instead of trying to stone him.
John 8:58
58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
But in the very next verse Jesus makes a very ungodly retreat.
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.
John 10:30
30 I and the Father are one."
But in the next verse Jesus gives a very convoluted answer before retreating saying metaphorically all those that do gods work are gods.
31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" 33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods' ? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
Odd that god has to fear being stoned and forced to go into hiding. Is it possible Jesus got so good in giving them the slip that the third time he claimed to be the Christ. They crucified him instead of trying to stone him.