Jesus is God

[Clete]

Nope, sorry. That's wrong. Plural noun, followed by a singular verb. Genesis 1:1 is the most studied sentence in all of history.

In the beginning [Gods] [He created]...

Either Moses messed up the first sentence in the Bible (highly unlikely, as he was well educated), or he was intentionally using a plural noun with a singular verb to indicate a plurality in God, which in any other context would be incorrect grammar.

As Clete said, you have to come with the a priori belief that God is not triune to make the verse say anything other than that God is a plurality.



Nope. Wrong again.

First of all, "el" is the singular form. The word used in Deuteronomy 6:4 for "God" is a morph of the word elohim, not el. Elohenu is plural.

Morphology: N-MPC Part of Speech: - N: Noun Grammatical Categories: - Gender M: Masculine - Number P: Plural - State C: Genitival Pronoun Morphology: 1CPGrammatical Categories: - Person 1: 1st Person - Gender C: Common - Number P: Plural

Second, the word used there for "one" (ECHAD) is not one of singularity, but of unity, which, again, indicates a plurality in the one God, Elohim.

The same word is used in Genesis 2:24, "[man and woman] shall become one flesh." A plurality in the union of flesh.

:first:

Excellent, substantive post! :BRAVO:

 

[God's Truth]

According to John 4:23 true worshippers/Christians worship the Father, I worship the father and I also follow Christ to the best of my ability, therefore I say I am a true worshipper/Christian. Trinitarians, on the other hand, do not worship the Father,

I was talking about how you speak of what a true Christian is and tell Clete he should reply to you with patience, all the while I post you many scriptures and you didn't give me the time of day.

but rather, worship the Father, Son and HS as a trinity which is unscriptural and contrary to John 4:23 definition of what a true worshipper is.
(John 4:23) "[Jesus said] Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.."

Jesus is on the throne and he is above all things and you say he shouldn't be worshiped? Jesus didn't stop people for worshiping him when he was as a man on earth.

I've never denied Jesus is a God/god, I believe he is one, I simply deny he is the one God of the bible which is a different matter altogether.

You don't believe God came as a man?

Jesus only says and does what the Father says and does, and Jesus says when you see him you can say you see the Father.

What scriptures did I ignore that you have shown that proves Jesus is the "one God", like expressed at 1 Cor 8:4-6?

Look back a couple of pages. I made about five posts to you with many different scriptures proving Jesus is God.

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "...Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him..."

I am not a trinitarian, but I preach that Jesus is God. I gave you many scriptures that say Jesus is the one and only God who is the Father and he came as a son in the flesh.

 

[Bright Raven]

I was talking about how you speak of what a true Christian is and tell Clete he should reply to you with patience, all the while I post you many scriptures and you didn't give me the time of day.




Jesus is on the throne and he is above all things and you say he shouldn't be worshiped? Jesus didn't stop people for worshiping him when he was as a man on earth.



You don't believe God came as a man?

Jesus only says and does what the Father says and does, and Jesus says when you see him you can say you see the Father.



Look back a couple of pages. I made about five posts to you with many different scriptures proving Jesus is God.



I am not a trinitarian, but I preach that Jesus is God. I gave you many scriptures that say Jesus is the one and only God who is the Father and he came as a son in the flesh.

You're wasting you time with NWL. He is a Jehovah's Witness. They are so adamant in their belief that they changed the Bible to fit their belief.

 

[God's Truth]

According to John 4:23 true worshippers/Christians worship the Father, I worship the father and I also follow Christ to the best of my ability, therefore I say I am a true worshipper/Christian. Trinitarians, on the other hand, do not worship the Father, but rather, worship the Father, Son and HS as a trinity which is unscriptural and contrary to John 4:23 definition of what a true worshipper is.

(John 4:23) "[Jesus said] Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.."



I've never denied Jesus is a God/god, I believe he is one, I simply deny he is the one God of the bible which is a different matter altogether. What scriptures did I ignore that you have shown that proves Jesus is the "one God", like expressed at 1 Cor 8:4-6?

(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) "...Now concerning the eating of food offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world and that there is no God but one. 5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him..."

You ignore all my posts to you but interact a lot with people who say to you 'stupid', and 'liar', etc.

Will you check out my posts to you about Jesus being God come in the flesh?

 

[God's Truth]

You're wasting you time with NWL. He is a Jehovah's Witness. They are so adamant in their belief that they changed the Bible to fit their belief.

I love talking about God though, and iron sharpens iron. It is a good way to study when you do it in a debate style with others with opposite beliefs. There is nothing more that I like to do than talk about God, even if someone else will never agree with me.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, it's not wrong. Plural noun -> a group of beings, singular verb -> a collective action, not a plurality of independent actions.

The fact of the matter is that it's a plural noun being used with a singular verb, which not even YOU deny!

No, there's nothing special about the number three when you're talking about a plurality of beings.

There is plenty special about the number 3, throughout the Bible and throughout creation.

http://kgov.com/3

LOL


No, Eloah is the singular form of Elohim in Hebrew.

But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered [with fatness]; then he forsook God[אלוה] [which] made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.
Deuteronomy 32:15

In Aramaic it's Elah.

No argument against eloah being singular.

Thou, O king, [art] a king of kings: for the God [אלה] of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
Daniel 2:37

El has a different plural form:

<A Psalm of David.> Give unto YHWH, O ye mighty[אלים], give unto YHWH glory and strength.
Psalm 28:9

Genesis 14:18, "el" is used, and it's singular.

Morphology: Prep-L Part of Speech: - Prep: Preposition Grammatical Categories: - Type L: "with regard to" Morphology: N-MSPart of Speech: - N: Noun Grammatical Categories: - Gender M: Masculine - Number S: Singular

No, it's not a "morph" of Elohim. Elohenu is is singular like abenu is singular.

Morphology: N-MPC Part of Speech: - N: Noun Grammatical Categories: - Gender M: Masculine - Number P: Plural - State C: Genitival Pronoun Morphology: 1CPGrammatical Categories: - Person 1: 1st Person - Gender C: Common - Number P: Plural

Elohenu is plural.

In context there is only one being for echad-one to refer to, there's no union there like the context dictates in Genesis 2:24.

Sorry, but the definition of "echad" is in fact "one of unity," "united." The fact that echad was used by definition means there is a plurality being talked about in the passage.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus does not say, "I am the Son of God the Father", but says, "I am the Son of God".

Jesus definitely knows who God is, but your arguments show that you do not.

Where, in the Bible, do you find the phrase, "the Son of God the Father"? That's right: nowhere. Just as the phrase, "the Trinity", is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

You seem to be very confused.
The Bible plainly states that Jesus is the Son of God.
The Bible plainly states that God is the Father of Jesus, and even calls God, "God the Father".

John 6:27 27 our not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

The Bible never ever calls Jesus, "God the Son"
The Bible never ever calls the Holy Spirit, "God the Spirit"
The Bible never ever teaches that God is both one God and three Gods in one God.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Either Thomas was blaspheming God or he wasn't.

Your misunderstanding of Thomas' words does not mean Thomas was blaspheming.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I quoted Jesus' own words you stupid dunce.

Let's look at what you quoted:

.

John 8:³³ The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”​

The Jews said, "You, being a Man make Yourself God"

Compare that to what I quoted:

You believe what the Jews who wanted to stone Jesus said over the words of Jesus Himself?

John 10:36 36 [JESUS]Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?[/JESUS]

Jesus said, "I said, I am the Son of God"

There is a big difference between the Jews lying about what Jesus was doing and the truth that Jesus said to correct them.

 

[genuineoriginal]

As predicted, these fools aren't moved at all by even the most plainly obvious passages of scripture that directly contradict their doctrine.

That is the frustration I have about people that make the false claim that the Bible teaches the Trinty.

 

[genuineoriginal]

You can post whatever you like, just don't use the same arguments that have been shown to be false over and over again and use convincing arguments. The crazy thing is that if someone was able to show me things contrary to what I believe and it was consistent and didn't contradict scripture I would change my mind. Every single time I've attempted to engage with healthy debate people end up refusing to answer my questions and rebuttals as they know deep down my core understanding of the bible (which many others also have) is solid and unmovable.

I agree.
I have searched the Bible for any proof that the Trinity is actually taught by the Bible.
The closest I came is that there are about a dozen passages that can be used to support the idea of the Trinity, if you start by looking specifically for that type of passage.
However, there are no passages in the Bible that actually teach that God is a composite being composed of YHWH (The Father), Jesus (The Son) and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible does teach that the three are one, but how they are one is explained by Jesus:

John 17:11 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:21 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Your misunderstanding of Thomas' words does not mean Thomas was blaspheming.

You're the one who made the claim that Thomas was taking the Lord's name in vain, which is blasphemy.

Here's a hint: Thomas wasn't taking the Lord's name in vain.

Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.” So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, [JESUS]“Peace to you!”[/JESUS]Then He said to Thomas, [JESUS]“Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”[/JESUS]And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”Jesus said to him, [JESUS]“Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”[/JESUS] - John 20:24-29 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John20:24-29&version=NKJV

The context shows that Thomas was convinced of Who Jesus was: his Lord and his God.

In the Greek, the literal translation is "the Lord of me and the God of me."

So, GO, my question to you is this: Why do you think that Thomas blasphemed (which is libel) in reaction to seeing Jesus in the flesh after His crucifixion, when the context shows that Thomas was simply convinced by seeing and touching Christ's wounds that He is God and was therefore simply calling Him "my Lord and my God"?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Then why is your understanding of who Jesus Christ is flawed? The Bible says that Jesus is the Word and the Word is God.

Actually, the Bible never actually states that Jesus is the Word and the Greek actually says that God is the Word (not the Word is God).
Trinitarians use the passage to say that it indicates that Jesus is the Word that was with God in the Beginning, but the passage actually shows that Jesus is the Word made flesh.

If you follow the chapter, you will see that it tells us what we are to believe about Jesus:

John 1:32-34 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

 

[God's Truth]

Actually, the Bible never actually states that Jesus is the Word and the Greek actually says that God is the Word (not the Word is God).
Trinitarians use the passage to say that it indicates that Jesus is the Word that was with God in the Beginning, but the passage actually shows that Jesus is the Word made flesh.

If you follow the chapter, you will see that it tells us what we are to believe about Jesus:

John 1:32-34 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jesus' name is the Word of God.

He is also called Savior, Redeemer, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End----and more, and all the names that God is called.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Some who deny that Jesus is God make the claim that Jesus never said that He is God. It is correct that the Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” This does not mean, however, that Jesus never claimed to be God.

Some who believe the Trinity seem to think that Jesus claiming to be the Son of God means that Jesus was claiming to be God.
Jesus being the only begotten Son of God who was sent to earth by God is taught in the Bible very plainly.

The Bible does not plainly teach that Jesus is God, nor does the Bible plainly teach that God is multiple persons in one being, which is the problem that Trinitarians have had for 1700 years.
The doctrine of the Trinity is made up of suppositions and unsupported conclusions, not from the plain teaching of the Bible.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I agree.
I have searched the Bible for any proof that the Trinity is actually taught by the Bible.
The closest I came is that there are about a dozen passages that can be used to support the idea of the Trinity, if you start by looking specifically for that type of passage.
However, there are no passages in the Bible that actually teach that God is a composite being composed of YHWH (The Father), Jesus (The Son) and the Holy Spirit.

The Bible does teach that the three are one, but how they are one is explained by Jesus:

John 17:11 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:21 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

By the way, ignoring most of someone's arguments and then making statements like you made in this one is called special pleading. It's a logical fallacy.

I just gave you PLENTY of evidence that Jesus claims to be God from throughout the Bible.

You would do well to address at least part of it.

Here is the post (most of which you ignored). Specifically, the part inside the spoiler:

There is plenty of proof that He did, just not verbatim like you want Him to have stated.

Spoiler

[h=1]The Deity of Christ: A Different Approach[/h] What does the Bible say about the deity of Christ? For centuries, as affirmed at the Council of Nicea, Christians have used a wonderful list of verses to demonstrate from God's Word the deity of Jesus Christ. Here is another very different approach to show the same truth. (This is similar to the "Big Picture" approach used in the overview of the Bible called The Plot.) Thus Saith the Lord: If we count how many times the Old Testament prophets said, "Thus says the Lord" we find them using that phrase, in the New King James Version of the Bible, about 420 times. The New Testament on the other hand, never once records that phrase. Jesus Christ, with all the red ink devoted to recording His words, never once used that ubiquitous phrase, "Thus saith the Lord." Rather, Jesus proclaims, "I say to you," in the Gospels! Not a single "Thus says the Lord," but rather, "I say to you," 135 times. The following chart demonstrates biblically that these two phrases, Thus saith the Lord, and I say unto you, indicate the same thing, that God is speaking. For Jesus Christ made it clear that He Himself was at the heart of His teaching. Unlike the righteous priests and kings, prophets and the apostles, the Lord focused His message on Himself: Christ's Self-focus: "Follow Me" 19x Mt. 4:19; 8:22; 10:38; 16:24; 19:21; Mk. 1:17; 2:14; 8:34; 10:21; Lk. 5:27; 9:59; 18:22; Jn. 1:43; 8:12; 10:27; 12:26; 13:36; 21:19, 22 Pray and act "in My name" 18x Mt. 7:22; 18:5; 18:20; [24:5]; Mk. 9:37, 39, 41; [13:6]; Lk. 9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; Jn. 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23-24, 26; Acts 9:15 "the Holy Spirit" comes "in My name" Jn. 14:26 "for My name's sake" leave family and property Mt. 19:29; or even be killed 5x Mt. 24:9; [Lk. 21:12, 17;] Jn. 15:21; Acts 9:16 Believe in the "name of the… Son" and "in the Son" 3x Jn. 3:18, 36; 9:35 and "in Him [Jesus]" 4x Jn. 3:18; 6:29, 40; 8:31 "believe in Me" 14x Mt. 18:6; Mk. 9:42; Jn. 3:15-16, 18; 6:35, 47; 7:38; 11:25, 26; 12:44, 46; 14:1, 12; 16:8; 17:20 You "are sanctified by faith in Me" Acts 26:18 Live "in Me" Jn. 11:26 "come after Me" Mk. 8:34; Lk. 14:27 Abide "in Me" Jn. 15:2, 4:5, 7 "abide in Me" or else Jn. 15:6 "abide in My love" Jn. 15:9-10 "where two or three are gathered" Jesus is "there in the midst of them" Mt. 18:20 So too: "I [Jesus, will abide] in you" Jn. 15:4-5 "know that I am He" Jn. 8:28 or "if you do not believe that I am He you will die in your sins" Jn. 8:24 Do things "for My sake" Mt. 10:22, 39; even lose your life "for My sake" 4x Mt. 16:25; Mk. 8:35; 10:29; Lk. 6:22 "I never knew you, depart from Me" Mt. 7:23 "I am willing; be cleansed" Mt. 8:3; Mk.. 1:41 "confess Me" Mt. 10:32; Lk. 12:8 Do not deny "Me" 7x Mt. 10:33; 26:34; Mk. 14:30, 72; Lk. 12:9; 22:34; Jn. 13:38 Do not be "ashamed of Me" Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words" "love Me" 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23-24, 28 Do not reject "Me" Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48 "He who is not with Me is against Me" Lk. 11:23 Love Me "more than" your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26] "I… have loved you" Jn. 15:9, 12 Be "worthy of Me" Mt. 10:37-38 "Come to Me" 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37 "I will give you rest" Mt. 11:28 "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light" Mt. 11:30 I am "greater than the temple" "than Jonah" "than Solomon" Mt. 12:6, 41-42 I am "Lord even of the Sabbath" Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments] Thus He says keep "My commandments" 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you" Jn. 15:14 "keep My word" Jn. 14:23-24 "He who is not with Me is against Me" Mt. 12:30 The angels are "His angels" Mt. 13:41; 16:27 and He commands "His angels" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27 The kingdom is "His kingdom" Mt. 13:41 and He calls it "My kingdom" Lk. 22:30 Jesus called it "My church" Mt. 16:18 and believers are "My sheep" Jn. 10:14, 27 and they are "His elect" Mt. 24:31; Mk. 13:27 Paul is a "vessel of Mine to bear My name" Acts 9:15 "all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine" Jn. 17:10 "My peace I give" Jn. 14:27 "in Me you may have peace" Jn. 16:33 "My joy" should fill you Jn. 15:11 "Who do men say that I am?" Mt. 16:13; Mk. 8:27 "who do you say that I am?" Mt. 16:15 Receive "Me" Mt. 18:5; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 9:48 Heaven and earth will pass away but "My words" will never Mt. [5:18] 24:35; Mk. 13:31; Lk. 21:33 Tell others about Jesus Mk. 5:19 "you belong to Christ" Mk. 9:41 Hear "My sayings" and do them Lk. 6:47 Jesus has "His own glory" Lk. 9:26; [Jn. 2:11; 16:14] The Son is "glorified" 8x Jn. 11:4; 12:23; 13:31-32; [17:1, 5, 10 24] "He who hears you hears Me" Lk. 10:16 Jesus expects praise, from stones if necessary Lk. 19:37-40 Return "to Me" Lk. 22:32 Be "My disciple" Lk. 14:27; Jn. 8:31; 15:8 Forsake all to "be My disciple" Lk. 14:33 "you are My disciples" Jn. 13:35 "I shall send… the [Holy] Spirit" Jn. 15:26; 16:7 The Holy Spirit "will testify of Me" Jn. 15:26 We read in John 5 and Luke 24 that "the Scriptures… testify of Me" Jn. 5:39; [Lk. 24:44] "You [Apostles] also will bear witness [of Me] because you have been with Me" Jn. 15:27 Paul gives "testimony concerning Me" Acts 22:18; 23:11 "the Son gives life to whom He will" Jn. 5:21 "seek Me" Jn. 6:26 Serve "Me" Jn. 12:26 "all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father" Jn. 5:23 "I am the bread of life," "of heaven," "of God" Jn. 6: 32-33, 35, 41, [48,] 51 Just seeing Christ is reason enough to believe in Him Jn. 6:36 [56] Drink "My blood" and eat "My flesh" Jn. 6:53-54, 56 "I will raise him up at the last day" Jn. 6:40 for He is the resurrection "The world… hates Me" Jn. 7:7 "I am the light of the world" Jn. 8:12; 9:5; 12:46 "I bear witness of Myself" Jn. 8:13-14, 18 "know… Jesus Christ" for "eternal life" Jn. 17:3; [8:19; 10:10, 14] "the Son makes you free" Jn. 8:36 "Abraham rejoiced to see My day" Jn. 8:56; "Before Abraham was, I AM" Jn. 8:58 Of believers, Christ said, "I know them" Jn. 10:27 "I give them eternal life" Jn. 10:28 "I am the resurrection and the life" Jn. 11:25 I "will draw all peoples to Myself" Jn. 12:32 "I will… receive you to Myself" Jn. 14:3 Be "Mine" Jn. 14:24 "I am the vine" Jn. 15:5 "without Me you can do nothing" Jn. 15:5 "You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you" Jn. 15:16 Those who oppress Christians are "persecuting Me" Acts 9:4-5; 22:7-8; 26:14-15 "because they have not known… Me" Jn. 16:3 The Spirit "will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it" Jn. 16:14 "All things that the Father has are Mine" Jn. 16:15 "the Father… loves you, because you have loved Me" Jn. 16:27 "If I will that he remain" Jn. 21:22 "I have overcome the world" Jn. 16:33 "I am the way" Jn. 14:6 "I am… the truth" Jn. 14:6 "I am… the life" Jn. 14:6 "I will… manifest Myself" Jn. 14:21 As a summary, scores of times Jesus uses the personal pronoun My with words like: commandments, sake, words, lambs, sheep, peace, love, joy, voice, name, sayings, kingdom, angels, and church. Three examples powerfully illustrate the point. First, "Abraham rejoiced to see My day..." Secondly, "I know My sheep, and am known by My own." And thirdly, "Assuredly, I say to you... Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away." The prophets and John were the messengers; Jesus is the Message, the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and put Himself at the center of His message, because He is God. The Forest for the Trees: A simple overview of Christ's message shows overwhelmingly that He is the Message. Thus, He is either a blasphemer, or God Himself. Very strong individual verses also show the Deity of Christ. The powerful and traditional deity proof texts far more effectively show Christ's deity when presented along with the big picture above of the ministry and message of Jesus Christ. Those traditional passages include John 1:1, 14; 9:38; 20:28; Mat. 2:11; Rom. 9:5; 2 Tim. 2:13; Heb. 1:3, 6, 8; Isa. 45:5, 18, 21 with John 1:3 and Titus 2:13; Col. 2:9 (in Christ "dwells all the fullness of the Godhead"); Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:16-17; Rev. 1:8, 18; 5:11-6:1. The Deity of Christ and Eternal Separation: Two doctrines, the afterlife of eternal separation from God in hell, and that of the deity of Christ, are inextricably linked. Therefore many of those who deny the deity of Christ, including Jehovah's Witnesses, Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, Ronald Hubbard's Scientology, and Christian Science, also deny an afterlife of eternal separation from God. Why? God put eternity in our hearts (Eccl. 3:11; Ps. 148:5-6) and so only a payment of infinite worth, something greater than the eternal futures of billions of human beings, could suffice to pay the price for our combined sin. When false teachers dismiss eternal punishment in Hades, they then fail to see the necessity of a Sacrifice of infinite worth. Jesus Is God: The dramatic contrast in the above chart shows Christ's self-presentation compared to the angels and prophets who present God to the world. These other messengers elevated not themselves, but God. They focused attention not on themselves but on Him. Godly priests, kings, and apostles presented God as their motivating message, of course, and not themselves. Jesus, on the other hand, came speaking about Himself. His most oft used, favorite title for Himself, undoubtedly selected also to communicate His mission, is not the "Son of God", but the "Son of Man". For, eternally He was the Son of God, but being the Son of Man was new to Him and uniquely cherished. God the Son submits Himself to the Father, willingly, not as a sign of a lesser God, but of His greatness. For as He lowers Himself, He is exalted to the central truth of Creation! (See the above chart.) Thus His "I say unto you" is the Scripture's "Thus Saith the Lord"! Three in the Bible: God exists as three persons in one Godhead, whom we refer to as the Trinity. Thus human beings made in His image also have a triune nature, and the cosmos itself is understood in threes, in the most fantastic ways. Before considering this, first see the Bible's extraordinary use of this number. Christ was three days in the tomb, which Jonah's three days foreshadowed, as did Abraham's three days of thinking that he would sacrifice his son Isaac on that same hill called Golgotha and Mt. Moriah (Gen. 22:14; 2 Chron. 3:1). Israel's three patriarchs are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The priestly tribe of Levi is from Jacob's third child (Gen. 29:34), as Leviticus is the third book of the Bible. And the day the law was given, the sons of Levi killed "about three thousand men" (Ex. 32:28), whereas the day the Spirit was given, "that day about three thousand souls were [saved]" (Acts 2:41; and see 2 Cor. 3:6). The Hebrew Scriptures comprise three sections, the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings (Luke 24:44), and God created three archangels. The most noteworthy women are Eve, Sarah, and Mary. The magi brought gold, frankincense and myrrh. Three persons (one being the Son) started their public service at thirty years of age: Joseph (Gen. 41:46), a deliverer of his people; David (2 Sam. 5:4) seated on the messianic throne (2 Sam. 7:12-13); and "Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age" (Luke 3:23). God could have led Esther to fast for two days, or four; and He could have kept Jonah in the whale for one day, or a week, but three days and three nights prefigures God’s plan of salvation for Christ's time in the grave. For Jesus "rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:4). And thus, the triune Christian God, the mystery of the Trinity, Three Persons in One God, is the one God whose testimony we can trust (answering both the philosophical problem of the origin of the one and the many, and Euthyphro's Dilemma by Socrates), having imprinted our world and even ourselves with His triune nature. Threes Everywhere: The number three manifested in Scripture turns the Christian's attention outward to see space existing in three dimensions, height, width, and length, as does time in past, present and future. The electromagnetic force operates in positive, negative, and neutral, and in pigment the three primary colors are red, yellow, and blue whereas in light they are red, green, and blue which three blend into the hues of the rainbow. We human beings on this third planet from the Sun experience matter primarily in three states, solid, liquid, and gas. The strongest shape for building is the triangle. Writers often give three examples and artists group in threes as in interior design, sculpting, and even movie directors, as they have the word trilogy (1, 2, 3) but no word for any other number of films. Photographers use the rule of thirds and the language of DNA uses only three-letter words. Everything reinforces the triune aspect of all of existence, a reflection of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. See more at kgov.com/3. Tripartite Man: And so we humans are body, soul, and spirit (1 Thes. 5:23). For God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness…" (Gen. 1:26). So mankind is made in God's image and likeness, image referring to our form, and likeness to our essence as sentient, morally-responsible persons. And unlike animals which look to the ground, men and women stand upright with a heavenly gaze. For the first thing that God created was a form, that is, an image, for the eternal Son to indwell (Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14: Heb. 1:3; 5:5; 10:5; 2 Cor. 4:4; John 1:14; Phil. 2:5-6; 1 Tim. 2:5; Rev. 1:13-18). And in that image "He made man" (Gen. 9:6), and not in the image of apes. "So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them (Gen. 1:27). The Plurality in God: The very first verse of Genesis presents the plurality of God, with Genesis 1:1 using a plural subject and a singular verb, that is, In the beginning gods He created the heavens and the earth. Elohim is the plural of the typical Hebrew word for God, which is El (cherub and seraph for example become plural as cherubim and seraphim, with Elah likely being the dual form, and Elohim being a plurality, in this case, three for the triune God). So, did Moses make a grammatical error in the first sentence of the first book of Scripture, in what has become not only the world's best-selling book, but in the most well-known sentence in the history of the world by using a singular verb with a plural subject? Of course not. For this was intentional. The Hebrew Scriptures in the most solemn texts presents God as a unified plurality. What grammarians refer to as the "royal we" comes from God's references to Himself using the plural: "Let Us make man in Our image," (Gen. 1:26). The solemn Hebrew prayer, called the Shema Yisroel, to the "one God" uses another plurality. For "The Lord our God, the Lord is One (of plurality)" at Deuteronomy 6:4 uses neither of the expected terms, yachad or even bad, words meaning a singularity, but God's Word uses the word echad, which is one in plurality as used by God at the Tower of Babel, "the people are one," and by Joseph "the dreams of Pharaoh are one," and by Moses, "the people answered with one voice," and back again to the beginning of Genesis at the institution of marriage when God says, "and they shall become one flesh." So this foundation prayer to God does not the use the Hebrew words for one, which mean a singularity (which words are never used in the Bible referring to God), but God describes Himself in the Bible using the One of plurality. So the Shema says: the Jehovah (who is the one God) our Elohim (plural) Jehovah is a Plural Unity! And Deuteronomy 6:4 is the central passage to all theology of God. Then the Scriptures go on to teach that the three Persons of the Trinity are God the Father (Isa. 63:16; Mal. 2:10), God the Son (Ps. 2:12; Zech. 12:10 and as in the chart above), and God the Spirit (Gen. 1:2; Isa. 48:16; Isa. 6:3; Rom. 5:5). See also Mat. 28:19; Acts 5:3-4, 9; 2 Cor. 13:14, and Psalm 110:1 with Matthew 22:41-46, and verses that show the personhood of the Spirit including Heb. 10:15-17. And finally, denial of Christ's deity is a central teaching of many of today's cults, including for example the Jehovah's Witnesses. A lack of understanding of the plurality of the Godhead creates philosophical dilemmas such as the problem of the one and the many. And Socrates' pre-Christian argument against God called Euthyphro's Dilemma is resolved by none of the world's religions except for the Christian Answer to Euthyphro in the eternal corroborating testimony of the three Witnesses of the Trinity. -Bob Enyart,

http://kgov.com/deity

Feel free to take your pick from whichever section you like and we can discuss it. I recommend starting at the beginning though...

 

[genuineoriginal]

By telling us that "the Bible is ambiguous about the nature of God", you are telling us that the Bible says both:

• God is a Trinity
• God is not a Trinity

• 
  False.
  
  The Bible does not say, "God is a Trinity," and the Bible does not say, "God is not a Trinity"
  
  The reason for this is that nobody even thought about the possibility that God might be mulitple persons in a single being until hundreds of years after the Bible was written.
  
  Your straw-man arguments are like saying that Jesus must have had a cell phone because the Bible does not say Jesus did not have a cell phone.

 

[genuineoriginal]

The Bible teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all God

Not quite, but I don't expect you to be able to understand what the Bible actually teaches about it.

 

[Bright Raven]

Some who believe the Trinity seem to think that Jesus claiming to be the Son of God means that Jesus was claiming to be God.
Jesus being the only begotten Son of God who was sent to earth by God is taught in the Bible very plainly.

The Bible does not plainly teach that Jesus is God, nor does the Bible plainly teach that God is multiple persons in one being, which is the problem that Trinitarians have had for 1700 years.
The doctrine of the Trinity is made up of suppositions and unsupported conclusions, not from the plain teaching of the Bible.

Your problem is that you do not understand the basic Scripture John 1:1

​​​​​​ John 1:1 Christian Standard Bible (CSB)

Prologue


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Who is the Word? Who dwelt among us (John 1:14)? What is your take on it?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Jesus comes to John and the first thing He says is "“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” (verse 8)

Look again.
The chapter begins:

Revelation 1:1 1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

We see that Jesus Christ was given a Revelation and it was God who gave the Revelation to Jesus Christ.
This is the same as what Jesus said happened before: God gave Jesus the words to speak that Jesus spoke to us.

John 17:8 8 [JESUS]For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.[/JESUS]