Jesus is God

[God's Truth]

Not necessarily. I can say something inside my own head, and it sounds like it's coming through my ears.

I can be sitting right here in the living room, and think I heard someone say something, but when I ask what, they look at me like I'm crazy.

I just let others worry about what they hear....I have enough troubles of my own. :chuckle:

lol
Has anyone ever told you that Jesus spoke to them?

 

[glorydaz]

I wonder if you had never ever heard of the trinity doctrine, what would you say to describe it.

I would probably think there were three God's if I didn't have the Old Testament. Odd. I'd never even though of it like that before. I'd better get to bed before I get too carried away with these "what if's".

 

[God's Truth]

I would probably think there were three God's if I didn't have the Old Testament. Odd. I'd never even though of it like that before. I'd better get to bed before I get too carried away with these "what if's".

I am going to log off too. Night.

 

[glorydaz]

lol
Has anyone ever told you that Jesus spoke to them?

Yeah, an old friend told me how he'd been drinking after a fight with his wife, and was down at the tavern. He got really depressed and drunker by the minute, so he went outside in the back and laid down. Turns out there was a train track back there, so he used it as a pillow. After a while, he could hear a train coming. He was so depressed that he figured he'd just lay there....he had nothing worth living for. As the train drew closer, he just gave up and welcomed the end. Then, "whoosh" the train went on by. He was laying on a parallel track. He said he heard a loud voice say, "You're on the wrong track, Jim". That sobbered him up and sent him home to his wife and kids. He stopped drinking, and last I'd heard they were doing good. The odd thing is after forty years, I just saw his wife on facebook....they were still together and doing well. It was obvious she still loves the Lord, and Jim looked happy. I'll have to remind him of that story he told and see what he says.

Personally, I've always thought it was the Lord, but I know it wasn't audible, because the train was still going by, and no actual voice could have been heard. It was a life changer for Jim, though.

The Holy Spirit doesn't have vocal chords that I know of, but I know full well that God doesn't need vocal chords to speak to us through our own spirits. Two of my favorite verses....

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.​

 

[glorydaz]

I am going to log off too. Night.

:wave:

 

[God's Truth]

Yeah, an old friend told me how he'd been drinking after a fight with his wife, and was down at the tavern. He got really depressed and drunker by the minute, so he went outside in the back and laid down. Turns out there was a train track back there, so he used it as a pillow. After a while, he could hear a train coming. He was so depressed that he figured he'd just lay there....he had nothing worth living for. As the train drew closer, he just gave up and welcomed the end. Then, "whoosh" the train went on by. He was laying on a parallel track. He said he heard a loud voice say, "You're on the wrong track, Jim". That sobbered him up and sent him home to his wife and kids. He stopped drinking, and last I'd heard they were doing good. The odd thing is after forty years, I just saw his wife on facebook....they were still together and doing well. It was obvious she still loves the Lord, and Jim looked happy. I'll have to remind him of that story he told and see what he says.

Personally, I've always thought it was the Lord, but I know it wasn't audible, because the train was still going by, and no actual voice could have been heard. It was a life changer for Jim, though.

The Holy Spirit doesn't have vocal chords that I know of, but I know full well that God doesn't need vocal chords to speak to us through our own spirits. Two of my favorite verses....

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.​

Great story.

I think he heard Jesus' real voice outside of him, not just in his head.

Doesn't mean that if there was anyone around they would have heard it, because we can see from the scripture that some heard His voice and some heard thunder.

John 12:29 The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.

I talked to someone before who told me Jesus said something to her in a voice outside her head. I believe it.

I have also heard testimony where people said Jesus talked to them, and I believe it.

However, I have heard people say they are spoken to and I just don't believe it.

If you ever talk to your friend and ask him about his experience, I'd like to know what he said.

 

[Tambora]

You don't know my gender for sure either.

If you are not a woman, then you lied to this site because you have already told us that you are a woman.

 

[Rosenritter]

Again, I was showing Rossenritter how he has no business constantly calling me names and going against me for my screen name.

You don't care about the truth, you just want to come and slander.

I have also already explained about the avatar I use. I have corrected you, but you don't care about the truth.

People started using it for whatever they choose to, and it is no reflection on me.

Now speak about the thread topic and not about me.

I am not the first person to mention that your chosen handle is somewhat blasphemous. As previously stated multiple times, if you don't like being referred to as as GE then all you need to do is give me another name to call you by that you find acceptable. That you whine and complain but refuse to provide an alternative is somewhat bizarre... it seems that you need self-inflicted wounds to fuel your own indignation.

Your complaint to Rosenritter about his avatar included whining about Anime. Oddly, your "defending yourself" amounted to using the same tactics that were being used against you. Immature again.

I don't think I was using any "tactics" as my objection is sincere. I cannot refer to her as "God's Truth" without objection of conscience, and even the abbreviation "GT" which I used to use doesn't work anymore. So I try to use a pronoun "her" but sometimes you need a proper noun. Until I'm given a better name, "Great Ego" must suffice. Suitably, it's only her own Ego that prevents her from giving me a different nickname to use.

 

[God's Truth]

If you are not a woman, then you lied to this site because you have already told us that you are a woman.

I didn't tell the site what gender I am. It isn't important. By the way, I don't lie. You constantly accusing me of lying is sin.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not the first person to mention that your chosen handle is somewhat blasphemous. As previously stated multiple times, if you don't like being referred to as as GE then all you need to do is give me another name to call you by that you find acceptable. That you whine and complain but refuse to provide an alternative is somewhat bizarre... it seems that you need self-inflicted wounds to fuel your own indignation.



I don't think I was using any "tactics" as my objection is sincere. I cannot refer to her as "God's Truth" without objection of conscience, and even the abbreviation "GT" which I used to use doesn't work anymore. So I try to use a pronoun "her" but sometimes you need a proper noun. Until I'm given a better name, "Great Ego" must suffice. Ironically, it's only her own Ego that prevents her from giving me a different nickname to use.

I don't listen to galatic heroes.

 

[Rosenritter]

He says that only God is good but NOWHERE does He say that He is not God. Read the passage again and look at it from the other side.

More than that, he says:

You just called me good, only God is Good. You just asked me for eternal life. Only God has what you just asked for. Will you understand the significance of what you just admitted? The commandments of God are love God and love thy neighbor. The commandments that the man said he kept were all within the love thy neighbor category. What is the one thing he lacks? So how does this man fulfill Love God? Sell all that he has and follow ... whom?

 

[Tambora]

I didn't tell the site what gender I am.

Yes you did.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes you did.

Can you show me the thread where I announced my gender to the site?

I know you can't, so why do you keep pretending that I did?

And why do you keep harassing me about it even though you know I don't want my gender discussed?

 

[Tambora]

Can you show me the thread where I announced my gender to the site?

It was too long ago to be looking it up.
But you did, and I am not the only one that remembers it.
And there is nothing wrong with discussing gender.

 

[Rosenritter]

Blahahahah, yet another passage that is under dispute!
Are you one of the "KJV Only" people?

As already quoted: NO ONE has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, and that is from two separate NT passages, so how do you understand the "blood of Elohim" if that translation is correct?

Unitiarians are a persistent faction that will dispute any passage regarding the divinity of Jesus. It doesn't matter if the alternate reading is found in only four or five places out of hundreds, they will claim that is the correct one, and the others are product of a vast conspiracy theory. Case in point, the "He who was manifest in the flesh" (only found in a few corrupt readings, not even sensible to mean anything other than God regardless) ... is found in how many manuscripts Daqq?

 

[Rosenritter]

From Gill:

1 John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven,.... That is, that Jesus is the Son of God. The genuineness of this text has been called in question by some, because it is wanting in the Syriac version, as it also is in the Arabic and Ethiopic versions; and because the old Latin interpreter has it not; and it is not to be found in many Greek manuscripts; nor cited by many of the ancient fathers, even by such who wrote against the Arians, when it might have been of great service to them: to all which it may be replied, that as to the Syriac version, which is the most ancient, and of the greatest consequence, it is but a version, and a defective one. The history of the adulterous woman in the eighth of John, the second epistle of Peter, the second and third epistles of John, the epistle of Jude, and the book of the Revelations, were formerly wanting in it, till restored from Bishop Usher's copy by De Dieu and Dr. Pocock, and who also, from an eastern copy, has supplied this version with this text. As to the old Latin interpreter, it is certain it is to be seen in many Latin manuscripts of an early date, and stands in the Vulgate Latin edition of the London Polyglot Bible: and the Latin translation, which bears the name of Jerom, has it, and who, in an epistle of his to Eustochium, prefixed to his translation of these canonical epistles, complains of the omission of it by unfaithful interpreters. And as to its being wanting in some Greek manuscripts, as the Alexandrian, and others, it need only be said, that it is to be found in many others; it is in an old British copy, and in the Complutensian edition, the compilers of which made use of various copies; and out of sixteen ancient copies of Robert Stephens's, nine of them had it: and as to its not being cited by some of the ancient fathers, this can be no sufficient proof of the spuriousness of it, since it might be in the original copy, though not in the copies used by them, through the carelessness or unfaithfulness of transcribers; or it might be in their copies, and yet not cited by them, they having Scriptures enough without it, to defend the doctrine of the Trinity, and the divinity of Christ: and yet, after all, certain it is, that it is cited by many of them; by Fulgentius (z), in the beginning of the "sixth" century, against the Arians, without any scruple or hesitation; and Jerom, as before observed, has it in his translation made in the latter end of the "fourth" century; and it is cited by Athanasius (a) about the year 350; and before him by Cyprian (b), in the middle, of the "third" century, about the year 250; and is referred to by Tertullian (c) about, the year 200; and which was within a "hundred" years, or little more, of the writing of the epistle; which may be enough to satisfy anyone of the genuineness of this passage; and besides, there never was any dispute about it till Erasmus left it out in the, first edition of his translation of the New Testament; and yet he himself, upon the credit of the old British copy before mentioned, put it into another edition of his translation. The heavenly witnesses of Christ's sonship are,

From Clarke:
1 John 5:7

There are three that bear record - The Father, who bears testimony to his Son; the Word or Λογος, Logos, who bears testimony to the Father; and the Holy Ghost, which bears testimony to the Father and the Son. And these three are one in essence, and agree in the one testimony, that Jesus came to die for, and give life to, the world.
But it is likely this verse is not genuine. It is wanting in every MS. of this epistle written before the invention of printing, one excepted, the Codex Montfortii, in Trinity College, Dublin: the others which omit this verse amount to one hundred and twelve.
It is wanting in both the Syriac, all the Arabic, Ethiopic, the Coptic, Sahidic, Armenian, Slavonian, etc., in a word, in all the ancient versions but the Vulgate; and even of this version many of the most ancient and correct MSS. have it not. It is wanting also in all the ancient Greek fathers; and in most even of the Latin.
The words, as they exist in all the Greek MSS. with the exception of the Codex Montfortii, are the following: -
“1Jo_5:6. This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness because the Spirit is truth.
1Jo_5:7. For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one.
1Jo_5:9. If we receive the witness of man, the witness of God is greater, etc.”

Scofield:
1 John 5:7
It is generally agreed that (1Jo_5:7) has no real authority, and has been inserted.

Did you read what you posted? Gill supports 1 John 5:7. You should also include Matthew Henry in your review.

 

[Rosenritter]

False.

Jesus did not have to be God to be the mediator BETWEEN man and God.

If Jesus is God then one would not need a mediator, if you know Him.

Jesus is the word made flesh, not God made flesh,

and Jesus went to the cross in his own faith as the man that He raised up by God to be through the ministry of His Fathers Word to Him and attendant sufferings because of, in a fallen world.

God was not even in Jesus when He suffered and died.

You have no idea because you follow the teachings of men.

LA

No, the mediator must be God. God is in a position to reach down to man. Man is not in a position to reach up to God. God can become a man, but man cannot become God. It is within the power of God and his right and perogative to become man, it is blasphemous and outside the power of a man to become God.

 

[God's Truth]

It was too long ago to be looking it up.
But you did, and I am not the only one that remembers it.
And there is nothing wrong with discussing gender.

I did not announce my gender.

There is definitely something wrong with calling someone a liar and talking about something they do not want to talk about.

I want to discuss things of God and in Christ gender does not matter.

I have been told many times by people here claiming I am not saved. They don't even know my gender for sure and they want to claim Jesus didn't save me.

Now why do you want to keep talking about gender?

You should understand how gender is not important and how people are judged falsely by it.

You are a woman and there is much disrespect to women, you might know that.

In Christ it does not matter about gender. I don't mind anyone thinking I am a man or a woman, it just bothers me about the disrespect and the importance of it to those who are not even friends with me.

 

[Rosenritter]

Yahshua said he is (a god.) This has been posted many times for Trinitarians to see. Do you not SEE it?

Psalm 82:6
I said, "You are (gods / elohiym); you are all sons of the Most High.

John 10:33-34
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be [a god] God."
34 Yashua answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are (gods / elohiym'?) 35If he called them ('gods / elohiym,') to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

Yashua was asked if he was the Messiah, he was not asked if he was God. It has always been understood that the Messiah would be a god from Heaven.

John 10:24. The Jews who were there gathered around him, asking, “How long will you keep us in suspense, if you’re the Messiah, tell us plainly?”

Psa 82:1-8 KJV
(1) <A Psalm of Asaph.> God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
(2) How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
(3) Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
(4) Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
(5) They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
(6) I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(7) But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
(8) Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

It would help if you knew the scripture that Jesus was referring to. They said he called himself God. And in response Jesus called them gods within the context of that psalm. What is the relationship between God and the gods in that psalm?

* God judges the earth. Jesus told us that he shall judge the earth.
* God inherits all nations. We are told that when Jesus returns he shall inherit all nations.
* God judges the gods, which die like men and fall as princes. Jesus has life everlasting and the keys of death and hell.

It's amazing that the Unitarian argument keeps impaling itself on this passage over and over again. The verse destroys their argument. They're hoping that you don't read further.

 

[daqq]

Unitiarians are a persistent faction that will dispute any passage regarding the divinity of Jesus. It doesn't matter if the alternate reading is found in only four or five places out of hundreds, they will claim that is the correct one, and the others are product of a vast conspiracy theory. Case in point, the "He who was manifest in the flesh" (only found in a few corrupt readings, not even sensible to mean anything other than God regardless) ... is found in how many manuscripts Daqq?

That is not how it works because the Byzantine text type has way more representatives simply because in the eastern empire the common people were allowed to have the scriptures in their private possession, (i.e. local congregations and their congregation heads throughout the eastern empire). Because of that fact the Byzantine types were copied and reproduced thousands of times more than the Western text type during a period of about a thousand years. Thus the tendency for error to be introduced in the Byzantine types, and thus likewise, the reason for the overwhelming quantity of manuscript and fragment evidence supporting the Byzantine text type. This is meaningless when it comes to which is more reliable because the older manuscripts are primarily where the readings do not agree with the majority Byzantine types. "Majority" thus means nothing more than quantity, because it does not reflect any superior quality whatsoever, and rather increases the opportunity for private doctrine and error to creep into the text over such a lengthy period of time. In the west, (Rome, Europe), the common people, for a very long period of time, were not allowed to have the scriptures in their possession, and therefore, since the scripture was only in the hands of "the church" elite, the Western text type is less common but older. In essence your argument is for quantity but such notion misrepresents the reality because mere quantity does not suggest what you assume. Instead what it more likely suggests is that more people like yourself, who believed that "Jesus is God Almighty", copied and copied and copied the Byzantine text type, over and over, so many times in the eastern empire that your doctrine slowly eventually crept into the text. But that quantity does not make your stance correct because all of your quantity is more recent than the minority which refute your stance.

No one having drunk old wine desires new, for he says, "The old is Chrestos!" :chuckle: