Amen. Jesus is The Holy Spirit is God is the Word. call it whatever you want and label it. but we can't define it in words and thoughts. well, maybe b57 can:cigar:
Jesus is God
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
God's Truth
New member
Yes, I know.
I, myself, really see no reason for a Trinity doctrine.
But if men want to have it, I see the only way to give it any credit is to look at it as Bright Raven is.
There are three, and in a way they are one.
And heck, if somebody didn't bring it up, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
They are not in a way one. They are One and the same.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
That they may be one AS we are one.
Not...... that they may be one since we are one and the same.
:doh:
John 17:11 KJV
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 KJV
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Jesus came FROM God, hence they are One. together in the beginng and before. God can seperate Himself. God is not a guy or a girl that is super holy and super good. Scriptures tell me that God, The Word and The Spirit are one. One. ONE. as One. One in the Same. 3 in 1. 3 of a Kind. Triple Play. Trifecta. Trio. Tri. Trinity? if you say so.
keypurr
Well-known member
Correction, Christ came from God, Jesus was born to Mary.
God sent his son Christ to us not himself.
Christ is the word, Jesus is the flesh that held that word.
God's Truth
New member
We are to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
We shall be like him also when we are given new bodies.
We are not like Jesus in that we came from heaven.
We are not like Jesus as for our having an earthly father.
We are not like Jesus in that our blood was not shed for the sins of the world.
Your jumping 13 verses to support your view???
For once try and actually read and thus see...
"I also saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word (logos) of God." (Rev 20:4)
Notice that they were beheaded for their testimony to Jesus AND for the logos of God.
Webster 1828
And
AND, conj.
And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.
Jesus and the word of God are not the same thing.
John 12:48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one (God) who judges him; the word ( logos ) I spoke is what will judge him at the last day.
Again… Jesus spoke the Logos, as He is not the Logos! So who is the Logos? The very next verse tell us!
Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
Why do you follow men... When the one true God Jesus spoke of ... makes it so clear... :doh:
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
You can let go of your spiritual ankles now... Your chains have been cut free...
oly::sherlock:Paul
God's Truth
New member
Jesus is speaking about unity. Unity of the believers
So if you sent your son... It would be fine and well that we don't believe you are your son!
So... Let's review the Hebraic understanding of son of God!
Son of God - This title for Jesus has been given meanings and attributes that were never intended. People have erroneously used the human father-son relationship to describe this title of Jesus’. They have thought that since a human son has the actual essence (made of the same matter) of his father, that therefore, this title implies that Jesus being the Son of God is of the same essence of God. This conclusion will lead you right into the Doctrine of the Trinity. This is the formula they adopted at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD when they said:
"The Son is of the same substance as the Father."
It was at this council that Jesus was first made God. The Holy Spirit interestingly enough was not included in the formula. It was included fifty-six years later at another council. Let’s see what this title really means:
Son of God - In the Old Testament Israel is described as God’s first-born (Exodus 4:22) and is called His son. There is therefore precedence for calling the Messiah "Son of God" for he is Israel’s representative par excellence (ZEB, vol.4, pg.203-204).
"Son of God" denotes an intimate relationship with the Father. It is obvious that sonship must not be understood in a crude pagan way. This bears out Dalman’s contention that the Hebrew concept of "son" does not denote an extensive circle of relationships" (ZEB, vol.4, pg. 205). Adam was called the "son of God" (Luke 3:38), God calls King Solomon His "son" in 1 Chronicles 28:6.
For Paul, "Son of God" is essentially a Christological description expressing "the Son’s solidarity with God" (ZEB, vol.4, pg.204). Closeness to the Father is the basic meaning of "Son of God"(Ibid). This closeness was a relationship that was shared by God’s anointed kings of Israel. Since Jesus is the ideal king of Israel, he is naturally the ideal Son of God. This is how the term came to be synonymous with Messiah and king of Israel. They are all different ways of saying the same thing.
The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible vol. 4 pg. 204 states:
"The last chapter of the first epistle of John makes every possible emphasis upon the principle that Sonship is the mark of Messiahship. The same is the case with the fourth gospel where the Son of God is synonymous with Messiah and occurs more frequently than any other title. Haenchen maintains that the same equation:
Messiah = Son of God = Son of Man applies to Mark’s gospel. The same can be said of the rest of the New Testament."
Aspects of Monotheism pg.90 states:
"The notion that the Davidic king was the son of God is well established in the Hebrew Bible in 2 Samuel 7:14 and in Psalm 2:7. It was only natural then that the coming messianic king should also be regarded as the Son of God. To say that the king was the son of God, however, does not necessarily imply divinization."
This is the meaning of the title "Son of God." Messiah = Son of God = king of Israel = Son of Man. The Messiah does have the closest and most intimate relationship with the Father. Let’s take a look at some verses to confirm this.
"The kings of the earth rise up, and the princes conspire together against the LORD and His anointed (Messiah)"… "I myself have set up my king on Zion (Israel)"… "The LORD said to me, "You are my son" (Psalm 2:2,6-7).
Here we see God speaking of the Messiah using all three titles; Messiah, king of Zion, and son.
"He first found his own brother and told him, "We have found the Messiah"…"Rabbi, you are the Son of God: you are the King of Israel" (John 1:41& 49).
John cannot be clearer on this title; the Son of God is the King of Israel. This is the Jewish meaning of "Son of God." Any other definition will take away from the true meaning of the title into something that was never intended by its Jewish author.
how do you think mary became pregnant. God - Jesus came FROM God, mary was the vessel. wow wake up keyputz:doh:
So if you sent your son... It would be fine and well that we don't believe you are your son!
So... Let's review the Hebraic understanding of son of God!
Son of God - This title for Jesus has been given meanings and attributes that were never intended. People have erroneously used the human father-son relationship to describe this title of Jesus’. They have thought that since a human son has the actual essence (made of the same matter) of his father, that therefore, this title implies that Jesus being the Son of God is of the same essence of God. This conclusion will lead you right into the Doctrine of the Trinity. This is the formula they adopted at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD when they said:
"The Son is of the same substance as the Father."
It was at this council that Jesus was first made God. The Holy Spirit interestingly enough was not included in the formula. It was included fifty-six years later at another council. Let’s see what this title really means:
Son of God - In the Old Testament Israel is described as God’s first-born (Exodus 4:22) and is called His son. There is therefore precedence for calling the Messiah "Son of God" for he is Israel’s representative par excellence (ZEB, vol.4, pg.203-204).
"Son of God" denotes an intimate relationship with the Father. It is obvious that sonship must not be understood in a crude pagan way. This bears out Dalman’s contention that the Hebrew concept of "son" does not denote an extensive circle of relationships" (ZEB, vol.4, pg. 205). Adam was called the "son of God" (Luke 3:38), God calls King Solomon His "son" in 1 Chronicles 28:6.
For Paul, "Son of God" is essentially a Christological description expressing "the Son’s solidarity with God" (ZEB, vol.4, pg.204). Closeness to the Father is the basic meaning of "Son of God"(Ibid). This closeness was a relationship that was shared by God’s anointed kings of Israel. Since Jesus is the ideal king of Israel, he is naturally the ideal Son of God. This is how the term came to be synonymous with Messiah and king of Israel. They are all different ways of saying the same thing.
The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible vol. 4 pg. 204 states:
"The last chapter of the first epistle of John makes every possible emphasis upon the principle that Sonship is the mark of Messiahship. The same is the case with the fourth gospel where the Son of God is synonymous with Messiah and occurs more frequently than any other title. Haenchen maintains that the same equation:
Messiah = Son of God = Son of Man applies to Mark’s gospel. The same can be said of the rest of the New Testament."
Aspects of Monotheism pg.90 states:
"The notion that the Davidic king was the son of God is well established in the Hebrew Bible in 2 Samuel 7:14 and in Psalm 2:7. It was only natural then that the coming messianic king should also be regarded as the Son of God. To say that the king was the son of God, however, does not necessarily imply divinization."
This is the meaning of the title "Son of God." Messiah = Son of God = king of Israel = Son of Man. The Messiah does have the closest and most intimate relationship with the Father. Let’s take a look at some verses to confirm this.
"The kings of the earth rise up, and the princes conspire together against the LORD and His anointed (Messiah)"… "I myself have set up my king on Zion (Israel)"… "The LORD said to me, "You are my son" (Psalm 2:2,6-7).
Here we see God speaking of the Messiah using all three titles; Messiah, king of Zion, and son.
"He first found his own brother and told him, "We have found the Messiah"…"Rabbi, you are the Son of God: you are the King of Israel" (John 1:41& 49).
John cannot be clearer on this title; the Son of God is the King of Israel. This is the Jewish meaning of "Son of God." Any other definition will take away from the true meaning of the title into something that was never intended by its Jewish author.
wow. quoting psalms to explain Jesus ? or even Old testament references, you are stuck in the OT. of course, son of God, means something different to people that do not believe. Jesus is The Word come in the flesh. period. you are confusing yourself by trying to define Jesus. have fun wasting your time, cuz ur getting all wrong.:carryon:
hey, joy. how do you see who voted on this ? and how do people check their rep and see who gave neg ?
keypurr
Well-known member
Jesus was NOT SENT, HE WAS BORN.
Christ WAS sent for he was with God. Christ is a spirit like his Father. Early translations used the term "IT became flesh"
keypurge, get some sleep, church in the AM. Jesus was sent AND born. :sam:
keypurr
Well-known member
Do you believe in SANTA too?
keypurr
Well-known member
The Father, who is the ONLY true God (John 17:3) sent his spirit into Mary. Jesus is the FLESH son of the most high God. However he is not the son in Hebrews 1, the express image of the Father. Christ, not Jesus, is the spiritual son that was God's first creation and all things were created through him. Early translation do not use the word "him", they use the word "IT".
Consider Hebrews 10:5, why did Christ need a body prepared for him???? Because he was a spirit that was to take the form of a man.
Open your mind friend and get out of the church box, you will only learn half the truth in church and most of it will be distorted.
no, but you do. you've said santa numerous times lately. probably because when re-arranged it spells satan. you have satan in your head. get it out ! !
keypurr
Well-known member
You need to listen to him PJ. He is a man of wisdom.