Jesus is God !

[beloved57]

It is not your place to damm people to hell. Your judging is just as bad as their unbelief.

No she is aware that some possibly could be the elect, but it is more likely not. There's a time when their won't be any more conversions Rev 22 11

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

 

[Trump Gurl]

No she is aware that some possibly could be the elect, but it is more likely not. . . . .

I agree with you about Jesus being God but I do not agree with you on Calvinism and the "elect". Everybody has the same chance to go to heaven if they repent.
So, its possible that the deniers today could repent and believe tomorrow and that is why nobody should ever say that somebody is dammed.

 

[NWL]

OT

Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

NT

Revelation 1:17-18 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

One thing I do not understand though is why you bother spewing bible verses on this thread if you are unwilling to discuss them and can only assert you are correct, it only makes you look silly.

I'm able to respond and tell you with reason, logic and by the bibles own admission why the above scriptures, among other ones you've quoted such as John 8:58, don't necessitate that Jesus is the 'one God'; it all has to do with the fact other beings are called G-gods in the bible without it implying they themselves are not the 'one God'. However, since you have made it abundantly clear you are unable to engage in intelligent discussion, and can only show shock, rudeness, arrogance, and have a heretic mind-frame by denying what certain scripture plainly state (take you denying the Father being called Jesus God and Father) I will refrain from doing so. The offer is always open if you change your mind.

 

[NWL]

Yes you in the dark about the True God. I have given plenty of scripture in this thread, I started it..

As I have said numerous times, show me a single one that you believe proves your position. It's not my duty to choose a verse on your behalf that support your doctrine.

The fact remains, I clearly showed you how sin and death are destroyed forever, which destroys your argument that sin is eternal, and also showed you how the glory that Jesus received is the same glory that he shares with certain followers and all you can say in reply is "You in the dark about the True God !". How was your response a worthy reply, it wasn't and you know it. You are unable to defend the things you believe in and can only assert you are correct hence the reason why you end up running away from a discussion with me every time we talk.

 

[Trump Gurl]

One thing I do not understand though is why you bother spewing bible verses on this thread if you are unwilling to discuss them. . . . .

I play by my rules, not your rules.

In your world, people read a Bible and study it and try to figure out right and wrong doctrines and right and wrong interpretations. None of you agree and you live in a world of chaotic conflicting doctrines.

In my world, Jesus established His Church (Matt 16:18), he chose Apostles to lead it and to teach (Matt 28:16-20) he gave them the authority to Bind and Loose (Matt 16:19) and the authority to forgive sins (John 20:23). In my world, Christ's Church teaches and I am a disciple who learns and obeys. I do not need to figure things out. The Truth has been handed down to me after 2,000 years.

I am a disciple and so are you. I am not an a successor of the apostles with authority to bind and loose and neither are you.

If you want the Truth then READ THIS

 

[NWL]

Absolutely Brother, these unbelievers and liars that deny Jesus is God shall have their part in the second death, and all to the Glory of God Rev. 21:8 !

God does not take delight in the death of people, its sad that you suggest he will.

(Ezekiel 33:11) "..Tell them, ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living.."

(2 Peter 3:9) "..Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.."

Perhaps you should take some time away and learn who the God of the bible is, the one who you say is your God but bring down by claiming he takes glory in killing people he does not want dead.

Absolutely Brother, these unbelievers and liars that deny Jesus is God

Most unitarians do not deny Jesus is called G-god, this is what most trinitarians fail to realise when speaking to unitarian or JW's. There are numerous people in the scriptures referred to as God, Angels are called Gods (see Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7), Moses is called God (Exo 7:1), Men are called Gods (John10:34), Satan is even called God (2 Cor 4:4), there are many beings called G-gods. When the bible calls these ones G-gods its not using the term God in its fullest sense, rather its using the term in the secondary lesser sense. The bible expresses this same idea that there are many gods but only one God who is the Father, see the next verse for proof:

NIV 1 Cor 8:5,6: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

Notice the above and what the verse states, there are "many gods" but still only "one God the Father", these is not my words but the bible words. Paul doesn't put Jesus in the category of the 'one God' but only highlights and puts the Father into this category as its only the Father who is the 'one God'. This begs the question, does Jesus being referred to G-god necessitate that he is the 'one God'? Well, does the fact Angels, Moses, men and even Satan are called G-god necessitate they are the 'one God', no! Rather it fits in perfectly with 1 Cor 8:5,6. Likewise, since it is clear that only the Father is called the 'one God' according to 1 Cor 8:5,6 Jesus is not the 'one God' and is rather called a G-god for similar reasons Angels, Moses and men are referred to as G-gods despite not being the 'one God'.

 

[Trump Gurl]

The point is that Jesus is a creature not God.

That is a lie, plain and simple.

 

[beloved57]

I agree with you about Jesus being God but I do not agree with you on Calvinism and the "elect". Everybody has the same chance to go to heaven if they repent.
So, its possible that the deniers today could repent and believe tomorrow and that is why nobody should ever say that somebody is dammed.

So you understand were we stand!

 

[beloved57]

God does not take delight in the death of people, its sad that you suggest he will.

(Ezekiel 33:11) "..Tell them, ‘“As surely as I am alive,” declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, “I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that someone wicked changes his way and keeps living.."

(2 Peter 3:9) "..Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.."

Perhaps you should take some time away and learn who the God of the bible is, the one who you say is your God but bring down by claiming he takes glory in killing people he does not want dead.



Most unitarians do not deny Jesus is called G-god, this is what most trinitarians fail to realise when speaking to unitarian or JW's. There are numerous people in the scriptures referred to as God, Angels are called Gods (see Psalms 8:5 compared to Hebrews 2:7), Moses is called God (Exo 7:1), Men are called Gods (John10:34), Satan is even called God (2 Cor 4:4), there are many beings called G-gods. When the bible calls these ones G-gods its not using the term God in its fullest sense, rather its using the term in the secondary lesser sense. The bible expresses this same idea that there are many gods but only one God who is the Father, see the next verse for proof:

NIV 1 Cor 8:5,6: "For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

Notice the above and what the verse states, there are "many gods" but still only "one God the Father", these is not my words but the bible words. Paul doesn't put Jesus in the category of the 'one God' but only highlights and puts the Father into this category as its only the Father who is the 'one God'. This begs the question, does Jesus being referred to G-god necessitate that he is the 'one God'? Well, does the fact Angels, Moses, men and even Satan are called G-god necessitate they are the 'one God', no! Rather it fits in perfectly with 1 Cor 8:5,6. Likewise, since it is clear that only the Father is called the 'one God' according to 1 Cor 8:5,6 Jesus is not the 'one God' and is rather called a G-god for similar reasons Angels, Moses and men are referred to as G-gods despite not being the 'one God'.

That Ezekiel passage has to do with national Israel, nothing about salvation.

 

[beloved57]

As I have said numerous times, show me a single one that you believe proves your position. It's not my duty to choose a verse on your behalf that support your doctrine.

The fact remains, I clearly showed you how sin and death are destroyed forever, which destroys your argument that sin is eternal, and also showed you how the glory that Jesus received is the same glory that he shares with certain followers and all you can say in reply is "You in the dark about the True God !". How was your response a worthy reply, it wasn't and you know it. You are unable to defend the things you believe in and can only assert you are correct hence the reason why you end up running away from a discussion with me every time we talk.

Already done!

 

[Trump Gurl]

So you understand were we stand!

That is good.

 

[NWL]

I play by my rules, not your rules.

Asking you to discuss the bible with me rather than asserting you are correct and I'm wrong is me trying to get you to play by my rules? I do not comprehend how you could think this.

In your world, people read a Bible and study it and try to figure out right and wrong doctrines and right and wrong interpretations. None of you agree and you live in a world of chaotic conflicting doctrines.

I do not think you know what world I live in since my religion is more unified than any other branch of Christianity in regards to our beliefs.

In my world, Jesus established His Church (Matt 16:18), he chose Apostles to lead it and to teach (Matt 28:16-20) he gave them the authority to Bind and Loose (Matt 16:19) and the authority to forgive sins (John 20:23). In my world, Christ's Church teaches and I am a disciple who learns and obeys. I do not need to figure things out. The Truth has been handed down to me after 2,000 years.

The apostles also said "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." (Acts 20:29, 30). The bible also teaches "until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand". Notice Paul states people will come up with twisted teaching from within the church, the bible also teaches that 'in the time of the end' people will cleanse themselves and that they will be the ones who "understand". What exactly are they cleansing themselves from and what exactly are they coming to understand? The answer is that they're cleansing themselves from all the false and twisted doctrine that has crept into the church as foreseen.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 highlights the same thing "Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it [the coming of Jesus in the last days] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction" and again, "For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.  They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories" (2 Tim 4:9,10)

The apostles literally taught apostasy was to come into the church first prior to the end. As I have shown you already Catholic and Protestant authority readily admit the trinity was NOT taught by the apostles by developed 300 years after. Yet you claim the truth you believe in is the truth, which is, in fact, a lie, just because it's lasted for roughly 2000 years; time does not make something correct, nor do the masses.

Remember, it was prophecied by the apostles people from within the church would lead people away and there would be an apostasy, it was also prophesied that in the last days "Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined...those having insight will understand". If you trust the apostles then you need to ask yourself who these people are and what exactly are they cleansing themselves from and what are they know understanding.

"I do not need to figure things out. The Truth has been handed down to me after 2,000 years"

You do need to figure things out, it is very naive of you to say such a thing, figuring things out is exactly what the apostles, who you claim to obey, tell you to do, "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world".

You say you do not need to figure things out even though a few post ago you called the fact the Father is called the God and Father of Jesus a heresy, even though scripture and Jesus himself literally state it. Believe it or not but people can be wrong, including yourself, believe in the bible, not in 2000 years of tradition.

I am a disciple and so are you. I am not an a successor of the apostles with authority to bind and loose and neither are you.

I do not claim to be a successor to them, all I'm professing to say is that I (and many other JW's) believe I have a more biblical consistent and logical understanding of their teachings than you and other Trinitarians. You could only ever deny this was true by putting what I say to the test, unless you or others do that then you have no right to claim what I say is false, as something can only be shown as false by being proven false.

 

[Trump Gurl]

Again, nice colors, erroneous content.

And you left out the best part: If you want the Truth then READ THIS

 

[keypurr]

That is a lie, plain and simple.

So your saying that scripture lies? I suggest you leave the church box and seek truth.

 

[keypurr]

Jesus had a God and Father and is God

You do not wish to change your lifestyle to follow Christ. I UNDERSTAND, for it is not easy to do and the price can be very hard. But you will not find total truth in traditional churches. Look for one that keeps the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, otherwise your faith is in vain.

 

[NWL]

Again, nice colors, erroneous content.

Again, you fail to reply to a single thing I said, and this is exactly what I was talking about previously. What is the point in you replying to me or posting pro-Trinitarian thoughts if you are unable to defend the things you say, it is utterly pointless and makes you look silly. Saying I am erroneous does not mean I am erroneous, again, claiming and asserting things are true does not magically make them so, why am I erroneous? You need to learn how to crawl before you can walk, you’re on here pretending to be a sprinter; learn the basics first my friend, you are fooling no one.

And you left out the best part: If you want the Truth then READ THIS

I missed out the best part? Are you referring to the full 12 page 6000 word article? I don’t reply to third party works, if you wish to show me something quote the specific point you wish to show me within reason and I will reply. I could refer you to numerous works by JW’s or Unitarians but don’t as it’s not becoming to do so.

 

[NWL]

Already done!

Where?

 

[beloved57]

Where?

Already told you

 

[NWL]

Already told you

When and where did you already tell me?

 

[beloved57]

When and where did you already tell me?

Read the thread and you will find out.