Jesus is God !

Lonster

Member
I know the Bible quite well. Jesus said in the Bible that laying down his life and taking it up again was proof of his authority, and within his power to do so. Don’t know what you are angry about?
Angry? About lies, if I were. I've read enough of your UB thread and book to know whacko. I simply hate what isn't true. Next: No, Caino, you don't know the Bible very well at all. Your ignorance is often shown. You display a lack of education in the sense that I'd never purposefully let you do any lab work for me where you work. I simply couldn't trust you, you are that ignorant of your Bible thus saying you know it quite well also holds your science education suspect as well. No, in fact, you don't know the Bible very well or you'd never say such things.
 

Lonster

Member
Do you mean by this that you believe in His Resurrection? I accept all who believe in Christ as my fellow Christian, even if separated, and only imperfectly united, as this condition is only temporary and not eternal.
:nono: In fact, He doesn't believe in the saving redemptive work of Jesus Christ and isn't saved by it, by his own admission. He believes in a new-age version akin to Mormonism. I realize you are Catholic, but realize who is heterodox and who is heretic. You cannot go so far as to offer fellowship to everyone one who is clearly labelled heresy by the Catholic church. 1 Timothy 5:22
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Angry? About lies, if I were. I've read enough of your UB thread and book to know whacko. I simply hate what isn't true. Next: No, Caino, you don't know the Bible very well at all. Your ignorance is often shown. You display a lack of education in the sense that I'd never purposefully let you do any lab work for me where you work. I simply couldn't trust you, you are that ignorant of your Bible thus saying you know it quite well also holds your science education suspect as well. No, in fact, you don't know the Bible very well or you'd never say such things.
When you grow up you may develop an open mind.
 
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Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
:nono: In fact, He doesn't believe in the saving redemptive work of Jesus Christ and isn't saved by it, by his own admission. He believes in a new-age version akin to Mormonism. I realize you are Catholic, but realize who is heterodox and who is heretic. You cannot go so far as to offer fellowship to everyone one who is clearly labelled heresy by the Catholic church. 1 Timothy 5:22
Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians. You're not Catholic, so you would not have any reason to know this.

@Caino you are generally welcome at any Catholic Mass (although Advent Masses and Christmas Mass might require a pre-sign-in, you'd need to check the parish's webpage), just don't receive Communion til you convert.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians. You're not Catholic, so you would not have any reason to know this.

I think you need to fine tune that a bit. I can think of some non-Christians who fit that description. And I know the Catholic faith pretty well.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
Catholicism believes that all who believe in Christ, that He is risen from the dead and the Son of God, are Christians. You're not Catholic, so you would not have any reason to know this.

@Caino you are generally welcome at any Catholic Mass (although Advent Masses and Christmas Mass might require a pre-sign-in, you'd need to check the parish's webpage), just don't receive Communion til you convert.
One of my fondest memories as a child was visiting the Sistine Chapel when I was 10.
 

Idolater

"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
I think you need to fine tune that a bit. I can think of some non-Christians who fit that description. And I know the Catholic faith pretty well.
Pope St. John Paul II's Catechism is freely available on the internet and can be had in mass market edition print for 15 USD, and you don't know anything that isn't in that.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Pope St. John Paul II's Catechism is freely available on the internet and can be had in mass market edition print for 15 USD, and you don't know anything that isn't in that.

Whoa, no need to get snotty. I have already seen you post two things that do not conform to Catholic teaching so cool your jets there Krampus. Buy yourself a Catechism for Christmas.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
That is a nice scripture, but those who do not believe Jesus is God still accept the phrase "Son of God."

Its does not address the issue: Is Jesus fully God, or is he a created being?
The Son of God is ancestral to God the Father. He preexisted in heaven with God from the beginning.
 

NWL

Active member
Yes it does. You are special pleading. It LITERALLY says "...purchased with His blood." - The Apostles didn't
have the hang up with this you Arians can't seem to help, or the Apostles would have stated things quite differently. You cannot argue with God and ultimately that is the issue, arguing with God very God, not the majority of Christians. One of the Watchtowers favorite verses is "Let God be true and every man a liar." Sadly they don't follow it, just use it to reason another as 'every other man a liar but them." :plain: TRY and see reason. Nobody is trying to steer you wrong. There are VERY good reasons we are Trinit-Arians. Learn why.
I've said the same thing repeatedly, do you not know what "necessitate" means? The blood does not 'necessarily' have to be referring to Gods blood when it states "purchased with His blood". Imagine someone saying "Man A was blue" with no further context to define the meaning, you could interpret that statement to mean that man A's appearance looked to be the colour blue, on the other hand, you could interpret the statement to mean the man felt down and sad emotionally. Neither of our interpretations is necessarily wrong as both interpretations are reflections in regards to what the writer could have meant.

In Acts 20:28 we have a statement "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood", that statement from my, and many scholars opinion, has two possible interpretations:

1. The blood refers to Gods blood
2. The blood refers to God's 'bloodline' which is through Jesus; Jesus is God's literal Son and in that sense his 'blood'.

Lon, can we start being honest, is point 2 a 'possible' interpretation? I'm not asking if it's the correct interpretation but simply a 'possible interpretation'. Let me again remind you, numerous scholars agree with me that it's a possible interpretation, hence why they reference Jesus in it over it being God's literal blood, so the understanding is scholarly and deserves a response. If you deny that it is a possible translation can you please give reasons as to why?

You are special pleading
No, I am not. Both biblically and within old and modern literature, someone being referred to as the 'blood' (or other bodily characteristics of a person such as bone and flesh) can and does refer to someone who is a direct relative, having the same bloodline.

Neh 5:5
"..and now, as the flesh of our brethren is our flesh, as their sons are our sons.."

2 Samuel 19:12
"You are my relatives, my own flesh and blood. So why should you be the last to bring back the king?'"
"You are my brothers, you are my bones and my flesh: why then are you the last to bring back the king?"

Judges 9:2
"...Which is better for you: to have all seventy of Jerub-Baal's sons rule over you, or just one man?' Remember, I am your flesh and blood."
"...Whether is better for you, either that all the sons of Jerubbaal, which are three score and ten persons, reign over you, or that one reign over you? remember also that I am your bone and your flesh"

As you can see above, someone being the blood, bone, or flesh of someone else relates to them being the relative of that one; they go so far as to claim the flesh and bones of their relative IS THEIR OWN FLESH. It is perfectly acceptable to understand Acts 20:28 to be using the same idiom when talking about the 'blood'. Therefore, it is not special pleading for the above given evidence. Again, since many translations of the bible translate the 'blood' to be referring to Jesus in Acts 20:28 we know it's a scholarly interpretation of the text.

------------------------------------------------------

Lon, you must understand that at present I'm not even trying to convince you that the 'blood' doesn't relate to God, all I'm trying to get to you to do is admit my interpretation is possible interpretation according to the bibles overall context and if you disagree to explain why. It's easy to say something is wrong but much harder to prove it, you are in the habit of asserting I'm incorrect without explaining how, please show me otherwise.

Also, you complained the accumulations of questions I had relating to our discussions was too much, despite it being your own doing, so reduced it to one; you still refuse to answer a single question, so I would like to know what excuse you have for not answering it this time despite me asking it and waiting patiently three (3) times now. Here is the question again:

My previous statement and question: Let's go back to basics, I will pick one of the many questions I have previously asked you and await your answer, hopefully, you'll answer and we can progress from there. The main topic of our discussion was if there are others who are called G-god who are not the 'one God' and who the originator of creation is. You've previously stated Jesus is the originator of creation and that because all things have been created through him he must be the originator because of the strong language used ("All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existences" John 1:3). My question is this, in Hebrews 2:8 it states God subjected "all things" under man and "left nothing that is not subject to him", since God and the Angels would no doubt be included in the "all things", according to your own reasoning, does this mean God and the Angels were subject to Man, or is the "all things" and God "leaving nothing not subject to Man" not inclusive of God himself and the Angels?
 
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Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Please do not reply to me Trump girl unless you are either agreeing with me or scripturally reasoning with me. . . . .

You are ignoring all scriptural reasoning. You constantly asking for that which you constantly ignore makes you a pathological liar and a dishonest person.

So, here you go again:

The proof of Jesus’ divinity is in the last two chapters of the book of Revelation. According to Revelation 21:6-7, Almighty God reveals himself to us in plain terms: “And he said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.’”

But then, in Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”:

And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end . . . I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”

Jesus is God

Jesus refers to himself with the divine name I am in several places. This “I am” formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14. Not only does Jesus refer to himself as “I am” four times in John’s Gospel (see John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy!

Jesus places his word on the same level as the word of God—the Old Testament. “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . .” (see Matt. 5:21-28). This is in sharp contrast to the prophets of old who always made clear the word they were speaking was not their own: “The word of the Lord came unto me, saying . . . ” (cf. Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3, etc.). Only God possesses this kind of authority.

Jesus is referred to as “equal” with God by both John and Paul. In John 5:18, the author comments on why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus: “Because he called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul refers to Jesus when he was “in the form (Gk. morphe; in Greek usage this word means the set of characteristics that makes a thing what it is) of God” thinking “his equality with God” not something to be grasped onto, but emptying himself and becoming man (cf. Phil. 2:6-10). Paul assumes his readers already knew Jesus to be equal with God, the Father.

Jesus is referred to in the New Testament with the title Lord as it is uniquely applied to Yahweh in the Old Testament. Jesus calls himself “the Lord of the Sabbath” in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath is referred to as the “Sabbath of Yahweh” in the Old Testament (cf. Ex. 20:10; see also Is. 8:13, referred to in 1 Peter 3:15; and Joel 2:31-32, quoted both in Acts 2:20-21 and in Rom. 10:13).

Jesus is God.

John 1:1-3: “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.”

Jesus (the Word before his Incarnation) is revealed to be “God” and the Creator of all things that were created. Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion is inescapable: Jesus is God!




Jesus is God. In fact Jesus is fully God and fully Man, two natures perfectly joined into on e person. I know this is all above your head but try to keep up.

The second deepest mystery of the Christian faith concerns Jesus Christ-The God Man.

The terminology of “person” and “nature” is again used in describing this dogma. The Greek term “hypostasis” generally refers to person and The Hypostatic Union refers to the mysterious union of two natures (divine and human) in the single person of Jesus Christ. In a sense, The Hypostatic Union is the reverse of the Trinity. In the Trinity there is only one nature (divine) but three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the Hypostatic Union, there are two natures (divine and human) but only one person: Jesus Christ.

Many Christians never seem to fully realize that Jesus Christ is unique in the duality of His nature. God the Father does not have a human nature nor does God the Holy Spirit, but only God the Son does from the moment of His conception. All three persons, of course, have a divine nature.

This dogma was debated for a long time, but today overwhelmingly Christianity accepts it. For me, this mystery presents in some ways greater challenges than the mystery of the Trinity itself. How can the single person of Jesus Christ simultaneously experience agony in the garden in his humanity while continuing to enjoy the serenity that exists in the bosom of the Trinity in His divinity? I don’t know and neither does anyone else. The two natures, although mysteriously fused to the single personality of Christ, do not commingle which allows Jesus to experience agony and joy simultaneously in some mysterious way.

Of particular fascination to me, however, is the very fact that God did become one of us. Why did He? The best answer again is found in scripture:

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son”
John 3:16

The Incarnation is part of the divine plan for our salvation. Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, was the first among us to cooperate with God’s plan by freely consenting to the conception of His Son within her womb. The Son of God became one of us-as a stunning counter move to overcome the satanic scourge of sin. The devil was foiled by God in a way that no one could possibly have imagined. Only a divine person could adequately atone for the sins of humanity and Jesus Christ, in His humanity, played out that very role. It is difficult, in the extreme, to even begin to appreciate the degree of love that God has for us to make His only begotten Son the sacrificial lamb for our sake. If fully appreciated, in fact, we would simply never worry again.

God the Father sees all. He sees His Son dying in agony on Calvary-naked, betrayed, denied, mocked and abandoned. God the Father hears all including His Son’s cry from the cross:

“My God, My God, why has thou forsaken Me?”
Matthew 27:46

What father who ever lived would ignore such a plea at that moment, particularly one with the power of the entire universe in the palm of His hand? But, what did God the Father do with the fate of all humanity awaiting His response? Nothing. His only begotten Son fulfilled His mission and died. His Father did nothing to stop it. Of course, Jesus Himself spoke other words on the day of His death, which in addition to God’s love for us, may also serve to explain the lack of divine intervention. What words?

“Father forgive them for they know not what they do”
Luke 23:34

Those words were the greatest ever spoken on our behalf. Jesus knew that His Father would not turn down the request of His only begotten Son. Did Jesus act as our savior with that request? Absolutely! He was not seeking forgiveness merely for the Roman crucifixion detail nor for those among the religious and political authorities who had called for His death, but rather for all humanity whose sin, individually and collectively, nailed Jesus to His cross.

Christians are united in the belief that the atonement of Christ and the graces that flow from the cross are what bridge the otherwise infinite chasm between Holy God and Fallen Man. Regrettably, there are still divisions within the Body of Christ regarding the mechanism by which the free gift of salvation is accepted, but no difference regarding the necessity of Christ’s participation in that process:

“I am the way, the truth and the life: no one comes to the Father but by Me”
John 14:6

Jesus Christ by His atonement and by His call for forgiveness not only restored us to the Kingdom of God but also gave us a destiny now greater in redemption than it had been in creation. That is precisely why Christian theologians sometimes refer to original sin as the “happy fault” (felix culpa).

The Hypostatic Union elevates Christianity to the most awesome of all religions. Jesus freely partook of our humanity, so that we could partake of His divinity.
 

NWL

Active member
You are ignoring all scriptural reasoning. You constantly asking for that which you constantly ignore makes you a pathological liar and a dishonest person.

So, here you go again:

The proof of Jesus’ divinity is in the last two chapters of the book of Revelation. According to Revelation 21:6-7, Almighty God reveals himself to us in plain terms: “And he said to me, ‘It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment. He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.’”

But then, in Revelation 22:6, 13, 16, we find Jesus revealing himself to be “the Alpha and the Omega . . . the beginning and the end”:

And he said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. And the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must soon take place . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end . . . I Jesus have sent my angel to you with this testimony for the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”

Jesus is God

Jesus refers to himself with the divine name I am in several places. This “I am” formula is a reference back to the Divine Name revealed to Moses in Ex. 3:14. Not only does Jesus refer to himself as “I am” four times in John’s Gospel (see John 8:24; 58; 13:19 and 18:5-6), but when he does so in John 8:58, the Jews to whom he was speaking understood his meaning because they immediately wanted to stone him for blasphemy!

Jesus places his word on the same level as the word of God—the Old Testament. “You have heard it said . . . but I say to you . . .” (see Matt. 5:21-28). This is in sharp contrast to the prophets of old who always made clear the word they were speaking was not their own: “The word of the Lord came unto me, saying . . . ” (cf. Jer. 1:11; Ezek. 1:3, etc.). Only God possesses this kind of authority.

Jesus is referred to as “equal” with God by both John and Paul. In John 5:18, the author comments on why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus: “Because he called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul refers to Jesus when he was “in the form (Gk. morphe; in Greek usage this word means the set of characteristics that makes a thing what it is) of God” thinking “his equality with God” not something to be grasped onto, but emptying himself and becoming man (cf. Phil. 2:6-10). Paul assumes his readers already knew Jesus to be equal with God, the Father.

Jesus is referred to in the New Testament with the title Lord as it is uniquely applied to Yahweh in the Old Testament. Jesus calls himself “the Lord of the Sabbath” in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath is referred to as the “Sabbath of Yahweh” in the Old Testament (cf. Ex. 20:10; see also Is. 8:13, referred to in 1 Peter 3:15; and Joel 2:31-32, quoted both in Acts 2:20-21 and in Rom. 10:13).

Jesus is God.

John 1:1-3: “In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God . . . All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.”

Jesus (the Word before his Incarnation) is revealed to be “God” and the Creator of all things that were created. Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created . . .” The conclusion is inescapable: Jesus is God!




Jesus is God. In fact Jesus is fully God and fully Man, two natures perfectly joined into on e person. I know this is all above your head but try to keep up.

The second deepest mystery of the Christian faith concerns Jesus Christ-The God Man.

The terminology of “person” and “nature” is again used in describing this dogma. The Greek term “hypostasis” generally refers to person and The Hypostatic Union refers to the mysterious union of two natures (divine and human) in the single person of Jesus Christ. In a sense, The Hypostatic Union is the reverse of the Trinity. In the Trinity there is only one nature (divine) but three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the Hypostatic Union, there are two natures (divine and human) but only one person: Jesus Christ.

Many Christians never seem to fully realize that Jesus Christ is unique in the duality of His nature. God the Father does not have a human nature nor does God the Holy Spirit, but only God the Son does from the moment of His conception. All three persons, of course, have a divine nature.

This dogma was debated for a long time, but today overwhelmingly Christianity accepts it. For me, this mystery presents in some ways greater challenges than the mystery of the Trinity itself. How can the single person of Jesus Christ simultaneously experience agony in the garden in his humanity while continuing to enjoy the serenity that exists in the bosom of the Trinity in His divinity? I don’t know and neither does anyone else. The two natures, although mysteriously fused to the single personality of Christ, do not commingle which allows Jesus to experience agony and joy simultaneously in some mysterious way.

Of particular fascination to me, however, is the very fact that God did become one of us. Why did He? The best answer again is found in scripture:

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son”
John 3:16

The Incarnation is part of the divine plan for our salvation. Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, was the first among us to cooperate with God’s plan by freely consenting to the conception of His Son within her womb. The Son of God became one of us-as a stunning counter move to overcome the satanic scourge of sin. The devil was foiled by God in a way that no one could possibly have imagined. Only a divine person could adequately atone for the sins of humanity and Jesus Christ, in His humanity, played out that very role. It is difficult, in the extreme, to even begin to appreciate the degree of love that God has for us to make His only begotten Son the sacrificial lamb for our sake. If fully appreciated, in fact, we would simply never worry again.

God the Father sees all. He sees His Son dying in agony on Calvary-naked, betrayed, denied, mocked and abandoned. God the Father hears all including His Son’s cry from the cross:

“My God, My God, why has thou forsaken Me?”
Matthew 27:46

What father who ever lived would ignore such a plea at that moment, particularly one with the power of the entire universe in the palm of His hand? But, what did God the Father do with the fate of all humanity awaiting His response? Nothing. His only begotten Son fulfilled His mission and died. His Father did nothing to stop it. Of course, Jesus Himself spoke other words on the day of His death, which in addition to God’s love for us, may also serve to explain the lack of divine intervention. What words?

“Father forgive them for they know not what they do”
Luke 23:34

Those words were the greatest ever spoken on our behalf. Jesus knew that His Father would not turn down the request of His only begotten Son. Did Jesus act as our savior with that request? Absolutely! He was not seeking forgiveness merely for the Roman crucifixion detail nor for those among the religious and political authorities who had called for His death, but rather for all humanity whose sin, individually and collectively, nailed Jesus to His cross.

Christians are united in the belief that the atonement of Christ and the graces that flow from the cross are what bridge the otherwise infinite chasm between Holy God and Fallen Man. Regrettably, there are still divisions within the Body of Christ regarding the mechanism by which the free gift of salvation is accepted, but no difference regarding the necessity of Christ’s participation in that process:

“I am the way, the truth and the life: no one comes to the Father but by Me”
John 14:6

Jesus Christ by His atonement and by His call for forgiveness not only restored us to the Kingdom of God but also gave us a destiny now greater in redemption than it had been in creation. That is precisely why Christian theologians sometimes refer to original sin as the “happy fault” (felix culpa).

The Hypostatic Union elevates Christianity to the most awesome of all religions. Jesus freely partook of our humanity, so that we could partake of His divinity.

I will happily enter in dialogue with you trump girl and give a reply but first, I need to highlight and get you to agree with a few things.

Firstly, and as I have stated to you before, I do not reply to third-party articles; your response was not your own words but have been plagiarised from two different sources, from here and also here.

I have no issue in replying to you, but as already stated, I do not reply to third-party articles. Any old person who has zero reasoning ability or willingness to understand can copy and paste an article (not that I am implying you have none). I need to know you understand the things you copy and paste for me to even deem it worthy to reply, since, if you don't understand what you have pasted then you will not understand my reply to it either. This is why it's better to use your own words and reasoning as it demonstrates to the other party you know what you're talking about.

Secondly, from what I have witnessed from you, you are an emotional person (not an insult but an observation, that may be incorrect), you have often deemed a reply of "blah blah blah" a suitable answer to my scriptural reasoning. If I reply back to you using scripture, is your intention to actually read and give an educated reply, or is your intention to mock and scoff at my replies and express your emotions?

I require the two following things from you before I reply as outlined above:

  1. Since your post is a copy and paste from a third party and are not your own words, can you choose from your post what you believe to be the best argument in proving Jesus is the one God or part of a trinity and I will reply to that?
  2. Is your intention to actually read and give an educated reply to my responses, or is your intention to mock and scoff at my replies and express your emotions?

Once you have answered these two questions I will reply.
 
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Caino

BANNED
Banned
I am starting to wonder if perhaps there is a language issue here. Is English your first language?
Why so snarky? What is it that you don't understand about my post? "The Son of God is ancestral to God the Father. He preexisted in heaven with God from the beginning."
 
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