Jesus is God !

[freelight]

The Perennial Wisdom......

The Perennial Wisdom......

Not at all...there is THE God of the Bible and any and all "knock offs".
If one does not admit or know who the God of the Bible is then he doesn't KNOW the God of the Bible, and that is who is in question.
There is no other God, consequently anyone who doesn't confess and know the God CLEARLY depicted in the Bible, doesn't know MY God.

I was just sharing that one Universal Reality or Consciousness exists....which alone is the origin, upholder, creative intelligence sustaining all things and allowing them TO BE. 'God' is the Be-ness, or the original Awareness from which all existence and existences derive,....hence God's true name as revealed to Moses is 'I AM' or 'I WILL BE' (ehyeh asher ehyeh),....the One who IS and causes 'to be' or brings all things into existence. 'God' is his most primal essence is prior to any-thing, any-being or any conception. He is the heart, core, space from which all things, beings and concepts arise....the heart of the cosmos.

If you are comparing your knowledge of 'God' (your 'version') and coveting it as "MY God",....then discounting all other versions, ideas or concepts of 'God' as false,....then that assumption can be challenged by the claim itself, which limits and compartmentalizes 'God'....making IT one's sole possession, one's cherished 'image'. Could that not tend towards 'idolatry'?...worshiping your own 'image', 'idea' or 'concept' of 'God'? Something to consider.....

The BIBLE shows us who God is, so ANY concept apart from the Bible is NOT the God of the Bible, despite ANY protests. Yes, it is THAT black and white freelight, which you won't obviously accept, but nevertheless an absolute FACT.
What Jesus prophecies in Matt 7:21-23 will happen quite a bit at His Judgement seat.

I think 'God' as the ultimate, absolute, eternal reality....is not limited to just a biblical accounting or description...since many other wonderful and genuine religious traditions and philosophical schools have gained insights into 'God' and the nature of reality, metaphysics, science, consciousness in their own terms and mythos ( in their own scriptures), since there is ever one universal ground or spiritual Source from which all things spring, and one universal wisdom which directs the course of all nature, worlds and the cosmos itself.

~*~*~

Perennial Wisdom



pj

 

[StanJ]

Ah, so it is for fleshmongers only now?

I don't know....what's a flesh monger?

 

[StanJ]

Well,...you mean those works 'attributed' to him,....a part of those are 'pseudographical' (7 are generally regarded as 'authentic' while the other 6-7 are questionable or convincingly pseudographical),...so we don't know who wrote those works. In any case,...the whole NT comes down by an assortment of various authors, scribes, interpolations, redactions, etc....and it ends up being a matter of 'translation' and 'interpretation', regardless of who penned or doctored them

No I mean the letters he actually wrote. Dissent or minority opinion is NOT fact. The problem with entertaining ANY thought is that you end up with ALL thoughts and no FACT.

Zeke is taking an allegorical approach to interpreting the passages, as all language is 'symbolic'.....not all things are so 'literal', but 'depictive', and can have several meanings or correlaries.

I think I'll wait for Zeke to answer unless you are also Zeke?

We're in the 'Religion' section, so this is definitely the 'forum' for those of us with more mystical or esoteric leanings, since it is the inner meanings and values encoded in the written word that we seek to discover and 'relate'. We who are maverick theologians, renegade philosophers, eclectics, esotericists and gnostics....pave our own way thru individual discovery and revelation, which is intimately 'individual' to each soul, discovering truth in its various forms which is ultimately 'translated' within us, by the 'God' within, since there is nowhere outside of 'God', 'God' being the light and life within.

Actually we are on a CHRISTIAN forum and that does NOT include mysticism, regardless of your POV. Maverick is NOT what following Jesus is all about. It about submission and allegiance to Him as the truth, NOT to making your OWN way. Maverick may have been interesting to those who liked the old westerns, but God tells us to comply with HIS will and HIS word. That starts with having HIM as your savior, and all that entails, including recognizing HE is God.

 

[StanJ]

I was just sharing that one Universal Reality or Consciousness exists....which alone is the origin, upholder, creative intelligence sustaining all things and allowing them TO BE. 'God' is the Be-ness, or the original Awareness from which all existence and existences derive,....hence God's true name as revealed to Moses is 'I AM' or 'I WILL BE' (ehyeh asher ehyeh),....the One who IS and causes 'to be' or brings all things into existence. 'God' is his most primal essence is prior to any-thing, any-being or any conception. He is the heart, core, space from which all things, beings and concepts arise....the heart of the cosmos.

What you are doing is trying to sell universalism, which is NOT Biblical nor Christian. If you haven't guessed by now, I am NOT into your whole shtick.

If you are comparing your knowledge of 'God' (your 'version') and coveting it as "MY God",....then discounting all other versions, ideas or concepts of 'God' as false,....then that assumption can be challenged by the claim itself, which limits and compartmentalizes 'God'....making IT one's sole possession, one's cherished 'image'. Could that not tend towards 'idolatry'?...worshiping your own 'image', 'idea' or 'concept' of 'God'? Something to consider.....

Nope...not comparing. The god you say you have knowledge of is NOT the God of the Bible. God is nobody's possession, we are His. If one starts with a false or erroneous premise then everything afterwards is flawed and of no repute.

I think 'God' as the ultimate, absolute, eternal reality....is not limited to just a biblical accounting or description...since many other wonderful and genuine religious traditions and philosophical schools have gained insights into 'God' and the nature of reality, metaphysics, science, consciousness in their own terms and mythos ( in their own scriptures), since there is ever one universal ground or spiritual Source from which all things spring, and one universal wisdom which directs the course of all nature, worlds and the cosmos itself.

which IS exactly why MY God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of the OT and NT, is clearly described and depicted. John 20:30-31
Using mystical language does NOT make your POV any more compelling or true.

 

[daqq]

I don't know....what's a flesh monger?

:doh: Aye-aye-aye, (Oy vey) we were just discussing this in another thread!
Lucy, somebody gonna have some splain'in to do!!! :chuckle:

1 Corinthians 15:39-44 ASV
39. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, [and therefore doves] and another of fishes.
40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in in corruption:
43. it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

All flesh is not the same flesh: if there is a soma psuchikos-natural-physical body, then there is a soma pneumatikos-ethereal-spiritual heavenly body. The Son of man is he that descended in the somatikos-bodily form of a pneumatikos-ethereal dove at the immersion of the man Yeshua and remained-abode with and in him throughout his earthly ministry recorded in the Gospel accounts. Anyone who denies this therefore runs the risk of having received the spirit of antichrist, according to 1 John 4:1-3, because the same has denied that the Holy One descended from the heavens in pneumatikos-ethereal uncorruptible flesh upon-into the man Yeshua who then expounded and exegeted the Christos which abode-remained with him and in him throughout his ministry.

Romans 8:3-11
3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, Elohim, sending his own Son in the similitude of sinful flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4. so that the statute-ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5. For they that are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but they that are according to the Spirit [mind] the things of the Spirit.
6. For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
7. therefore the mind of the flesh is hostile against Elohim; for it is not subject to the law of Elohim, neither indeed can it be:
8. and they that are in the flesh cannot please Elohim.
9. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of Elohim dwells in you. But if any man has not the Spirit of Messiah, he is none of his.
10. And if Messiah be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Yeshua from the dead dwells-housed in you, he who raised up Messiah from the dead shall quicken also to your mortal bodies through his indwelling Spirit in you.

Therefore one must have the Spirit of Messiah dwelling within just as the man Yeshua had the Spirit of Messiah dwelling within himself; for anyone who has the Spirit of the Son dwelling within, the Father will raise up the same just as he did the man Yeshua because the man Yeshua had the Spirit of Messiah, the Son, dwelling in him.

The flesh-monger cannot please Elohim because he is naturally hostile and at enmity against Elohim. The flesh-monger walks according to his belly just as the serpent in the garden was cursed to do. Walking according to the belly is idiomatic for seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the natural and physical man because he sees all things according to the eyes of the flesh and physical. The natural man has no clue of supernal and spiritual things. He only cares about what is physical and set before his physical eyes, like Esau, who sold his birthright for a bowl of lintel soup because he was hungry, (and thus his god was his belly). And here you are clubbing people over the head and beating your chest like donkey kong because you cannot "see" what others have "seen". :crackup:

Somebody gonna have alotta splain'in to do at the Bema!!!

K:

 

[StanJ]

Aye-aye-aye, (Oy vey) we were just discussing this in another thread!
Lucy, somebody gonna have some splain'in to do!!!

Are you REALLY Jewish?
You do a terrible impression of Desi Arnez.

So a flesh monger is someone who cannot please God?

You mean like YOU?

:loser:

 

[Zeke]

I KNOW what Paul wrote. I wanted to hear your post in clear cohesive English. This is not a forum for mystics you know.

Well this is the religious section so mystic/esoteric/gnostic would be other categories of christian belief, you may not like it but they were a major part of the sect until around the third century when the literal became top dogma through guile and deceit.

Paul in Galatians is telling you the spiritual interpretation of the scripture which is about the inward Seed/Christ portrayed by Jesus, the mystery hidden by the veil of the literalized historical perversion of a once Esoteric teachings that was around long before the age of Pisces arrived, with the sign of the fish that traditional christians like to display on their bumpers.

 

[j4jesus09]

Matt 19:16-26

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


This passage actually is teaching the Truth that Jesus is God ! Notice vs 17 As the young man had addressed Jesus as good, and Jesus responded accordingly, why callest thou me good, for none is good but ONE, that One Being God

Now , notice Jesus did not say, none is good but One and that is my Father, but He said that One, Being God !

Now if Jesus by this is not insinuating that He is God, then the alternative is that He was not good, seeing He just said only ONE, not Two, but ONLY ONE is good.

Now, if Jesus was not good, being that He was not the Only One Good God, then His commanding him, the young ruler, in order to be perfect, that he must go sell all his possessions, then give to the poor, and follow Him; Such an commandment exposed that the young man loved his possessions above God, which was a violation of the very first commandment, now if Jesus was not God, then the young mans refusal to obey and follow Jesus, could not be a proper standard to gauge his Love to God !

For there could not have been nothing amiss about not making such a great sacrifice as that Jesus told him, and then following Him if the One speaking was not the One God, who Only was good !

I wouldn't say this really defines who Jesus was. John 1 says the Word was theos. Jesus(Yeshua) the Christ, the messiah was more "something" than us. For sure! If any man could do what Jesus did, then why wasn't it done before? So it's obvious he was more special way beyond us. I just think some things are to tough for us to explain here in this age. I think if we believe Jesus had the Spirit of His Father which the bible says he did, that would endow Jesus with wisdom of the ages, knowledge, and pretty much oneness with God and who His Father is. Isn't that what Jesus preached, and what the entire bible teaches. Oneness with God His Father? Isn't that what we are striving for? So does this make Jesus God in a sense that He had no beginning? I don't think the bible paints that picture. I think he had a beginning. As John 1 says. I think when we say Jesus is God we believe He had no begininng. I think that is reserved only for the Almighty Father. He is the source and all things and has had no beginning. Is it not possible for God our Father to reproduce Himself by making a son like Jesus The Christ? Meaning Jesus is the first Son of God? Producing from within Himself the first Son of God out of many more to come? It's safe to say that Jesus is God in the same way a person can say man is a human since Jesus(bloodline) came from the God. God has a family and Jesus is the firstborn and many more to come. That seems to be what the bible teaches. I'm sure plenty will disagree, some will agree, but I'm just stating my thoughts. It's not about being right, althought I would like to be right about my understanding.

 

[aikido7]

Jesus was a man who walked the dusty roads of Palestine with his disciples.

That is a statement of FACT.

Christ is God, Lord and Messiah.

Those are statements of FAITH.

Christianity is about seeing the man Jesus as a representation of God, Lord and Messiah alive in the world.

Understanding the difference between theology and history is essential I believe, although many will find such a comparison as disruptive, blasphemous and heretical because this is rarely taught from the pulpit.

 

[StanJ]

Well this is the religious section so mystic/esoteric/gnostic would be other categories of christian belief, you may not like it but they were a major part of the sect until around the third century when the literal became top dogma through guile and deceit.

Paul in Galatians is telling you the spiritual interpretation of the scripture which is about the inward Seed/Christ portrayed by Jesus, the mystery hidden by the veil of the literalized historical perversion of a once Esoteric teachings that was around long before the age of Pisces arrived, with the sign of the fish that traditional christians like to display on their bumpers.

Maybe in your mind, but NOT in reality. Jesus was never mystical.
Mysticism is useful ONLY for people who don't really KNWO but want to act lime they do. Mysticism allows some to act as if they do know without ever revealing the extant of their knowledge by implying they know something others don't.

Paul is telling us WHAT? Try using the same English you are reading in your Bible, instead of this mystical crap, and while you're at it, EXEGETE the scriptures by referring to EXACTLY the ones you make your implications about.

 

[keypurr]

Maybe in your mind, but NOT in reality. Jesus was never mystical.
Mysticism is useful ONLY for people who don't really KNWO but want to act lime they do. Mysticism allows some to act as if they do know without ever revealing the extant of their knowledge by implying they know something others don't.

Paul is telling us WHAT? Try using the same English you are reading in your Bible, instead of this mystical crap, and while you're at it, EXEGETE the scriptures by referring to EXACTLY the ones you make your implications about.

Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

 

[Ben Masada]

Jesus is God!

Jesus is God!

No, this is idolatry if you read Deut. 4:15,16. Jesus was a Jew and, a Jew cannot be God but a servant of God.

The Absolute Oneness of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

 

[StanJ]

Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

John 1:1, 14, 18 (NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Prevaricate all you want keypurr, but you CANNOT silence God's Written Word.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and ONLY Jesus. Therefore as ONLY God gives life, Jesus is our God and Savior.

Repent!

 

[StanJ]

No, this is idolatry if you read Deut. 4:15,16. Jesus was a Jew and, a Jew cannot be God but a servant of God.

The Absolute Oneness of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

Again, know the savior and then we can talk.

 

[Squeaky]

Joh 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."

I said
You know I think they forgot to tell Jesus He was God. Because He doesn't know it yet. Because Jesus says the Father is the only true God.


John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Ofcourse they are calling Jesus a liar.

 

[Bright Raven]

I said
You know I think they forgot to tell Jesus He was God. Because He doesn't know it yet. Because Jesus says the Father is the only true God.


John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Ofcourse they are calling Jesus a liar.

John 10:25 King James Version (KJV)

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


John 10:37-38 King James Version (KJV)

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

 

[StanJ]

John 10:25 King James Version (KJV)

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


John 10:37-38 King James Version (KJV)

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Sadly my conclusion is they will NOT listen to scripture unless it confirms their delusion.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Can you rephrase that in cognitive English please?

Zeke, is what you'd call, "A Mystic Nut." He never makes
any sense. He's in his own little "Twilight Zone."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Hi Zeke, well said concerning the Matthew 11 passage.

Also in the same Matthew passage Yeshua is attributed by the author as quoting word for word from the Septuagint version of Exodus 23:20a and, therefore, Yeshua emphatically states that Yochanan is the Malak-Angel of Exodus 23:20-23 who leads us into "the Land". In the flesh minded paradigm of the mainstream this would then necessarily have to mean that Yochanan also "preexisted". However Yeshua also states in the same passage that all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yochanan. There goes the entire structure of modern mainstream so-called theology with all of its underlying foundations built upon the shifting sand of the carnal mindset and ignorance and indifference toward the parables, allegories, idioms, sayings, teachings, and doctrines of Yeshua whom they claim is God Almighty. :crackup:

:sheep:

Well, I see you're another member of the "Mystic Nut Club."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Focus on the nut shell Galatians 4:24-26 and grasped the intent being presented by Paul concerning the two covenants experience in the conscience of man, not two distinct personalities that tradition has created from the letter interpreted as history by Rome, that is an allegorical veil to the flesh 2Cor 3:6.

Nobody knows what you're talking about? Why not try a foreign
language? You might have better luck?