Jesus is God !

[freelight]

Not to split hairs....but......

Not to split hairs....but......

Actually my friend it is you who needs to be knocked off the proverbial horse on the way to Damascus. You need to have a true encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Which of the conflicting reports of Paul's Damascus Road experience do you suggest we believe?

~*~*~

Inconsistency in Paul's Vision acounts




pj

 

[Bright Raven]

Which of the conflicting reports of Paul's Damascus Road experience do you suggest we believe?

~*~*~

Inconsistency in Paul's Vision acounts




pj

How about this one.


Acts 9:3-15King James Version (KJV)

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

 

[freelight]

One Universal Reality reigns..........

One Universal Reality reigns..........

Your god doesn't answer prayer keypurr.

Oh come on Stan,......its the classic "my god is greater than your god"....or "my god is the 'Real God',...while yours is not" strategizing.

We had fun in this thread - "My God is Greater than Your God" a while back.

But all this hubris and posturing aside (prior to any opinion or assumptions)....we reduce all that exists down to an original universal source which we call 'God', so that 'God' is the only universal, eternal, infinite, absolute reality that IS. If this is the case,...then no matter what ideas, concepts or thoughts we throw up against this 'Real God',....these are only relative symbolic representations...while 'Real God' remains the One and Only Absolute REALITY. - our concept of this 'God' may differ more or less, or the 'names' we give it...but IT remains the fundamental reality, which allows for all 'else' to exist, all possibilities and potentials. We are all united and grounded in this 'Real God Presence', since it is All That is Real. - all else are reflections or distortions of information and language. But 'God' alone is prior to any conception, the origin of all, the INFINITE.



pj

 

[Zeke]

How about this one.


Acts 9:3-15King James Version (KJV)

3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts doesn't match the Galatians conversion, and is a unreliable script that presents a false version of the Christ Paul encountered in Galatians being formed in him, which, in my estimation is the right one, The invisible Divine seed that was All spiritual which is the mystery of Christ in you not a historical phantom of the Roman version of flesh and blood, born of a woman of flesh like John Matt 11:11 that would be least in the kingdom of God Luke 17:20-21, a doctrine/fable of milk and cookies unsupported by history 2 Cor 5:16, 2Cor 3:6.

If John was the the greatest born of a woman than Jesus was second best! or he represented the spiritual new birth from above that happens in man not among, another perversion of traditional interpretation to support the false christ of history.

 

[StanJ]

Oh come on Stan,......its the classic "my god is greater than your god"....or "my god is the 'Real God',...while yours is not" strategizing.
We had fun in this thread - "My God is Greater than Your God" a while back.
But all this hubris and posturing aside (prior to any opinion or assumptions)....we reduce all that exists down to an original universal source which we call 'God', so that 'God' is the only universal, eternal, infinite, absolute reality that IS. If this is the case,...then no matter what ideas, concepts or thoughts we throw up against this 'Real God',....these are only relative symbolic representations...while 'Real God' remains the One and Only Absolute REALITY. - our concept of this 'God' may differ more or less, or the 'names' we give it...but IT remains the fundamental reality, which allows for all 'else' to exist, all possibilities and potentials. We are all united and grounded in this 'Real God Presence', since it is All That is Real. - all else are reflections or distortions of information and language. But 'God' alone is prior to any conception, the origin of all, the INFINITE.

Not at all...there is THE God of the Bible and any and all "knock offs".
If one does not admit or know who the God of the Bible is then he doesn't KNOW the God of the Bible, and that is who is in question.
There is no other God, consequently anyone who doesn't confess and know the God CLEARLY depicted in the Bible, doesn't know MY God.
The BIBLE shows us who God is, so ANY concept apart from the Bible is NOT the God of the Bible, despite ANY protests. Yes, it is THAT black and white freelight, which you won't obviously accept, but nevertheless an absolute FACT.
What Jesus prophecies in Matt 7:21-23 will happen quite a bit at His Judgement seat.

 

[StanJ]

Yeshua is my Teacher. It matters not to me if you hate his words.

Well JESUS said that the Holy Spirit would be our teacher when He left, so that just shows you have no idea what Jesus said or teaches. John 16:12
If you can't understand His written words you can't possible understand anything else.

 

[StanJ]

Do you know the difference between LORD and Lord and lord?

Yep....do you?
How about explaining the difference between Matt 1:20 and Matthew 7:21, as to WHO kyrios is?

 

[StanJ]

Excellent,.....I just brought this up to soften the conversation alittle, as it seems to be getting into a petty religious argument over who has or knows the truth, like a volleyball match of kindergarten kids saying "Im right and you're wrong" (stick tongue out, add a few ad hominems, etc.) - stuck on 'repeat'.
The fruit of the Spirit in one's life and their devotion to God's will is what is primary here, regardless if one is a Unitarian or Trinitarian,...their 'faith' may be just as real or valid, as a believer of a different doctrinal perspective,....if they truly love God and serve His Christ. That's the point I was reminding. God looks at the heart, not the stringency of some intellectual concept of doctrine or dogma necessarily.
We would note as well, that its just not 'loving one another' that is a commandment, but loving one's enemies as well, since by doing this we PROVE that we are children of God, because His love is poured out freely upon both the good and the wicked, the just and the unjust. There is no partiality in this example. Its just not loving those who love us, as even the most wicked of sinners can do that much among themselves. Some however think these teaching of Jesus are limited to the old covenant dispensation, and Paul's gospel somehow replaced it.

You can't have fruit of the spirit if you don't know the Triune God of the NT freelight.
I don't apologize for being zealous for God and if He punishes me for that, so be it. Better to receive punishment than to deny Him before men.

 

[journey]

Hello StanJ,

We don't know what God's Will is regarding the squad of heretics you're dealing with, but we do know that God has promised that His Word will never return unto Him void without accomplishing His Will and purpose. We also don't know the "when" regarding God's Will - just that His Word is never wasted. Hang in there.

Isaiah 55:10-11 KJV 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

 

[StanJ]

Hello StanJ,

We don't know what God's Will is regarding the squad of heretics you're dealing with, but we do know that God has promised that His Word will never return unto Him void without accomplishing His Will and purpose. We also don't know the "when" regarding God's Will - just that His Word is never wasted. Hang in there.

Isaiah 55:10-11 KJV 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Thanks journey and I fully intend to. I am NOT concerned about their destiny as it is their choice. I am concerned for those who may be mislead by their false teaching, which is why I battle with the Sword of the Spirit.

:thumb:

 

[daqq]

Well JESUS said that the Holy Spirit would be our teacher when He left, so that just shows you have no idea what Jesus said or teaches. John 16:12
If you can't understand His written words you can't possible understand anything else.

Matthew 23:8-11
8. But you shall not be called Rabbi; for one there is of you the Didaskalos-Teacher, and you are all brethren.
9. And call no man upon the earth your Father: for one is your Father, the Heavenly.
10. Neither shall you be called kathegetai-commanders: for your Commander is one, hoChristos-haMashiyach!
11. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

John 13:13-16
13. You call me "the Didaskalos-Teacher" and "the Kyrios-Master", and you say well; for so I am.
14. If I then, the Kyrios-Master of you and the Didaskalos-Teacher of you have washed your feet; you also ought to wash the feet of one another.
15. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.
16. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his Master; neither he that is sent greater than He that sent him.

What Jesus prophecies in Matt 7:21-23 will happen quite a bit at His Judgement seat.

How about explaining the difference between Matt 1:20 and Matthew 7:21, as to WHO kyrios is?

Matthew 7:21
21. Not every one that says unto me, Kyrie Kyrie!, [Master Kyro] shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but he that does the will of my Father which is in the heavens.

Isaiah 44:24-28
24. Thus says YHWH, your Redeemer, and He that forms you from the womb, I am YHWH who makes all things; who stretches forth the heavens alone; who spreads abroad the earth by Myself:
25. Who frustrates the tokens of the liars, and makes the diviners mad; who turns wise men backwards and makes their knowledge foolishness:
26. Who confirms the word of His servant and performs the counsel of His Messengers; who says to Yerushalaim, You shall be inhabited; and to the cities of Yhudah, You shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
27. Who says to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up your rivers:
28. Who says of Kyros, [Septuagint Kyro-Kuro] He is My Shepherd, and shall perform all My pleasure: even saying to Yerushalaim, You shall be built: and to the Temple, Your foundation shall be laid!

Isaiah 45:1-5
1. Thus says YHWH to his Mashiyach-Christos, to Kyros, [Septuagint Kyro] whose right hand I have taken, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates, and the gates shall not be shut:
2. I will go before you, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3. And I will give you treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, [Matthew 13:35] that you may know that I am YHWH, He that calls you by your name, Elohey Yisrael.
4. For the sake of Yacob My servant, and Yisrael My chosen one, I have even called you by your name: I have surnamed you, [Elohey Yisrael] though you have not known Me.
5. I am YHWH, there is no other, there is no Elohim but Me: I gird you, though you have not known Me.

Koresh-Kurush-Cyrus = "Like the Sun"
Kyros-Kuros = Greek root for Kyrios-Kurios-Kurie

Matthew 13:41-43
41. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity:
42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43. Then shall the righteous shine forth LIKE THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Zeke]

The real heretic believes in Caesar's Christ of history, flesh and blood that is manifest in fear based doctrines, tradition looking for an outward savior that is, was, and always will be inwardly found just like Luke 17:20-21 states.

Easy to see the motif of the second born sons in scripture being the representation of the inward Son of God, Galatians 4:24-26 in a nut shell, yet tradition whats to make the second son born of the spirit in man the mystery of Christ in you a flesh and blood person, separated from us, that is the true heretic dogma still wearing the veil of the first born of the flesh, embracing the letter instead of the spirit.

 

[daqq]

Acts doesn't match the Galatians conversion, and is a unreliable script that presents a false version of the Christ Paul encountered in Galatians being formed in him, which, in my estimation is the right one, The invisible Divine seed that was All spiritual which is the mystery of Christ in you not a historical phantom of the Roman version of flesh and blood, born of a woman of flesh like John Matt 11:11 that would be least in the kingdom of God Luke 17:20-21, a doctrine/fable of milk and cookies unsupported by history 2 Cor 5:16, 2Cor 3:6.

If John was the the greatest born of a woman than Jesus was second best! or he represented the spiritual new birth from above that happens in man not among, another perversion of traditional interpretation to support the false christ of history.

Hi Zeke, well said concerning the Matthew 11 passage.

Also in the same Matthew passage Yeshua is attributed by the author as quoting word for word from the Septuagint version of Exodus 23:20a and, therefore, Yeshua emphatically states that Yochanan is the Malak-Angel of Exodus 23:20-23 who leads us into "the Land". In the flesh minded paradigm of the mainstream this would then necessarily have to mean that Yochanan also "preexisted". However Yeshua also states in the same passage that all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yochanan. There goes the entire structure of modern mainstream so-called theology with all of its underlying foundations built upon the shifting sand of the carnal mindset and ignorance and indifference toward the parables, allegories, idioms, sayings, teachings, and doctrines of Yeshua whom they claim is God Almighty. :crackup:

:sheep:

 

[StanJ]

You call that nonsense an answer?

I had foreknowledge that you would not or could not answer, so thanks for confirming.
:loser:

 

[StanJ]

The real heretic believes in Caesar's Christ of history, flesh and blood that is manifest in fear based doctrines, tradition looking for an outward savior that is, was, and always will be inwardly found just like Luke 17:20-21 states.

Easy to see the motif of the second born sons in scripture being the representation of the inward Son of God, Galatians 4:24-26 in a nut shell, yet tradition whats to make the second son born of the spirit in man the mystery of Christ in you a flesh and blood person, separated from us, that is the true heretic dogma still wearing the veil of the first born of the flesh, embracing the letter instead of the spirit.

Can you rephrase that in cognitive English please?

 

[Zeke]

Can you rephrase that in cognitive English please?

Focus on the nut shell Galatians 4:24-26 and grasped the intent being presented by Paul concerning the two covenants experience in the conscience of man, not two distinct personalities that tradition has created from the letter interpreted as history by Rome, that is an allegorical veil to the flesh 2Cor 3:6.

 

[Zeke]

Hi Zeke, well said concerning the Matthew 11 passage.

Also in the same Matthew passage Yeshua is attributed by the author as quoting word for word from the Septuagint version of Exodus 23:20a and, therefore, Yeshua emphatically states that Yochanan is the Malak-Angel of Exodus 23:20-23 who leads us into "the Land". In the flesh minded paradigm of the mainstream this would then necessarily have to mean that Yochanan also "preexisted". However Yeshua also states in the same passage that all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yochanan. There goes the entire structure of modern mainstream so-called theology with all of its underlying foundations built upon the shifting sand of the carnal mindset and ignorance and indifference toward the parables, allegories, idioms, sayings, teachings, and doctrines of Yeshua whom they claim is God Almighty. :crackup:

:sheep:

Yet the two aspects of mans Conscience also has two Fathers and Mothers that birth two off spring which we see in John earthy, then Jesus heavenly a life giving spirit portrayed all through scripture in various motifs.

The two becoming one in Conscience is the God man who transcends this worlds watery grave, the body of temporal flesh.

 

[StanJ]

Focus on the nut shell Galatians 4:24-26 and grasped the intent being presented by Paul concerning the two covenants experience in the conscience of man, not two distinct personalities that tradition has created from the letter interpreted as history by Rome, that is an allegorical veil to the flesh 2Cor 3:6.

I KNOW what Paul wrote. I wanted to hear your post in clear cohesive English. This is not a forum for mystics you know.

 

[daqq]

This is not a forum for mystics you know.

Ah, so it is for fleshmongers only now? :crackup:

K:

 

[freelight]

TOL's most lovable mystics........

TOL's most lovable mystics........

I KNOW what Paul wrote.

Well,...you mean those works 'attributed' to him,....a part of those are 'pseudographical' (7 are generally regarded as 'authentic' while the other 6-7 are questionable or convincingly pseudographical),...so we don't know who wrote those works. In any case,...the whole NT comes down by an assortment of various authors, scribes, interpolations, redactions, etc....and it ends up being a matter of 'translation' and 'interpretation', regardless of who penned or doctored them

See: Authorship of the Pauline epistles

I wanted to hear your post in clear cohesive English.

Zeke is taking an allegorical approach to interpreting the passages, as all language is 'symbolic'.....not all things are so 'literal', but 'depictive', and can have several meanings or correlaries.

This is not a forum for mystics you know.

We're in the 'Religion' section, so this is definitely the 'forum' for those of us with more mystical or esoteric leanings, since it is the inner meanings and values encoded in the written word that we seek to discover and 'relate'. We who are maverick theologians, renegade philosophers, eclectics, esotericists and gnostics....pave our own way thru individual discovery and revelation, which is intimately 'individual' to each soul, discovering truth in its various forms which is ultimately 'translated' within us, by the 'God' within, since there is nowhere outside of 'God', 'God' being the light and life within.



pj