Jesus is God !

[Lon]

Bs
Eliyahu

&

Bs

Hides any scriptures from your posts. Quit with the gimmickery.

 

[Apple7]

Bs'd

So you think you can proof the NT with text from the NT??

Like: "The NT is true, because that is what is written in the NT"??

Ever heard of the term: "Circular reasoning"?

What I have shown you is that the Trinity originated in the OT....not in the NT.

Deal with it...

As I showed you before, the word "elohiem" is singular, unless the context shows otherwise, and the word "all" is simply not existent in that expression, so you are showing that you have as much knowledge of Hebrew as a cow has of climbing trees.

The word in question is 'ha-elohim'.

So what you are trying to do with your circular reasoning, is trying to proof that a messiah who didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies is the messiah, and not only that, that he also is a god.

And then you have to resort to illogical constructions like the trinity which is nowhere to be found in the Bible, in a desperate and pathetic attempt to turn your two gods into one.

Christianity is soooooooo obviously wrong.....

For something that supposedly does not exist and is so wrong, it sure has you fired-up!

Still waiting for you to explain the two Yahwehs in Gen 18...

 

[Elia]

What I have shown you is that the Trinity originated in the OT....not in the NT.

Bs'd

What you have shown is that you refuse to read the text in a normal way, and that you no matter what, try to twist and corrupt the text in order to see your pagan extra-Biblical trinity in it.

The word in question is 'ha-elohim'.

And that does not, I repeat, it does NOT mean: "all the gods".

For something that supposedly does not exist and is so wrong, it sure has you fired-up!

All the prophets got very worked up about idol worship.

Elia had 400 ba'al priests their heads chopped off.

Now that is what I call fired up!

Still waiting for you to explain the two Yahwehs in Gen 18...

There are no two Y-H-W-H's.

There is only ONE God who IS ONE:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

Deut 6:4


"This is what Y-H-W-H says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God" Is 44:6

What part of "GOD IS ONE" is it that trinitarians don't understand??

The trinity is an idolatrous pagan illogical extra-Biblical concept, adapted by the church from much older pagan religions, in order to cover up the fact that they have two gods; a God the Father, and a god the son. 1 + 1 = 2, and therefore Christians are polytheists, worshiping a whole divine family, and that makes them IDOL WORSHIPERS!




Eliyahu, light unto the nations


"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

 

[beloved57]

eli

Bs'd

What you have shown is that you refuse to read the text in a normal way, and that you no matter what, try to twist and corrupt the text in order to see your pagan extra-Biblical trinity in it.

Post 536 is waiting for your explanation, do not evade it !

 

[Elia]

eli

Bs'd



Post 536 is waiting for your explanation, do not evade it !

Bs'd

I don't get involved with people who are too far out in space.

It is hard enough to deal with people who cannot count to two.



Eliyahu

 

[beloved57]

eli

I don't get involved with people who are too far out in space.

I know you do not want any part of that post, you coward ! It also exposes your unbelief ! Thats all you are, another unbeliever !

 

[Elia]

eli



I know you do not want any part of that post, you coward ! It also exposes your unbelief ! Thats all you are, another unbeliever !

Bs'd

You believe that Muhammed was a prophet of God?

If not, you are an unbeliever, and you'll burn in the Muslim hell.



Eliyahu

 

[beloved57]

Bs'd

You believe that Muhammed was a prophet of God?

If not, you are an unbeliever, and you'll burn in the Muslim hell.



Eliyahu

Post 536 is waiting on you !

 

[Lon]

Bs'd

I don't get involved with people who are too far out in space.

It is hard enough to deal with people who cannot count to two.



Eliyahu

I looked up Bs'd once to see if it was from another country or planet. I got nothing. If you want to talk about make believe, and counting to 2, start with yourself. I don't know of anybody that makes up sigs and phrases and thinks that's an adult thing to do. If you want to talk about people from outerspace, let's start there. If those beings had an interest, they could have linked to Google or something so "Bs'd" is your own neurosis. Didn't show up. Has no meaning.

Try something else like: "non-responsive" "rebuttal" "back-at-cha" or "I'm a kook." You know, something that makes sense to people when they read. Specifically, this is why I don't engage you. Its too trivial and gimmicky like an oily salesman would use.

It could be "Blessed Alah" for all I know.

 

[Apple7]

Bs'd

What you have shown is that you refuse to read the text in a normal way, and that you no matter what, try to twist and corrupt the text in order to see your pagan extra-Biblical trinity in it.

Moses was Trinitarian.

I already showed this to you in Gen 18.

But...you got mad and ran away...

And that does not, I repeat, it does NOT mean: "all the gods".

Yes, it does.

All the prophets got very worked up about idol worship.

Elia had 400 ba'al priests their heads chopped off.

Now that is what I call fired up!

Jewish scripture is all about how the Jews worshipped idols, etc....so just deal with it...

There are no two Y-H-W-H's.

There is only ONE God who IS ONE:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

Deut 6:4


If you concede that that there are not two Yahwehs - even though two are clearly mentioned - than that leaves the door open to a uniplural Creator.

Just say it...

"This is what Y-H-W-H says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God" Is 44:6

What part of "GOD IS ONE" is it that trinitarians don't understand??

The trinity is an idolatrous pagan illogical extra-Biblical concept, adapted by the church from much older pagan religions, in order to cover up the fact that they have two gods; a God the Father, and a god the son. 1 + 1 = 2, and therefore Christians are polytheists, worshiping a whole divine family, and that makes them IDOL WORSHIPERS!

Eliyahu, light unto the nations


"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

Jews originated the concept of idol worship.

 

[freelight]

reminders......

reminders......

Moses was Trinitarian.

I already showed this to you in Gen 18.

It doesnt prove Moses was Trinitarian, let alone knew of a trinitarian concept as later defined by Christians centuries after Christ. God is One...and a true monotheistic or monist belief is fine since it rests on a fundamental simplicity. Remember, the primal unit of God-reality is the ground from which all multiples arise, if you believe God expresses as a Bi-unity (Father/Mother), Trinity, 7-fold Spirit-ministry or a whole pantheon of gods/goddesses....there is still one universal life-energy and essence out of which all things are given form and existence, call it 'God', 'Brahman', 'Tao', 'Spirit', etc.

God is ever the One and Only Being. - all else is dependent on God for existence...since no other support exists for anything to be.

Jews originated the concept of idol worship.

Idolatry begins when any concept, image or form of 'God arises FIRST in the mind and replaces 'God', or is worshipped as if its 'Real God'. Jews arent the only ones who have 'idols'....for the mind creates idols. In the truest sense, orthodox Jews respect 'God' as that incorporeal and Single Deity that alone deserves worship, so they know this Deity cannot be any object or form. - hence Deity remains ever transcendent, other-worldy, supremely 'holy', ineffable. Naturally they would see a Trinity concept of YHWH as wrong, since they maintain a true monotheism, without dividing or distributing Deity into a compound unity(much less a company of 'personalities), because their theology does not imply, include or necessitate such.



pj

 

[Apple7]

It doesnt prove Moses was Trinitarian, let alone knew of a trinitarian concept as later defined by Christians centuries after Christ. God is One...and a true monotheistic or monist belief is fine since it rests on a fundamental simplicity. Remember, the primal unit of God-reality is the ground from which all multiples arise, if you believe God expresses as a Bi-unity (Father/Mother), Trinity, 7-fold Spirit-ministry or a whole pantheon of gods/goddesses....there is still one universal life-energy and essence out of which all things are given form and existence, call it 'God', 'Brahman', 'Tao', 'Spirit', etc.

Moses wrote repeatedly of a Triune God.

This is how he knew his Creator, just as He had revealed Himself.

Moses knew nothing about smoking peyote and doing yoga to connect with his God.

God is ever the One and Only Being. - all else is dependent on God for existence...since no other support exists for anything to be.




Idolatry begins when any concept, image or form of 'God arises FIRST in the mind and replaces 'God', or is worshipped as if its 'Real God'. Jews arent the only ones who have 'idols'....for the mind creates idols. In the truest sense, orthodox Jews respect 'God' as that incorporeal and Single Deity that alone deserves worship, so they know this Deity cannot be any object or form. - hence Deity remains ever transcendent, other-worldy, supremely 'holy', ineffable. Naturally they would see a Trinity concept of YHWH as wrong, since they maintain a true monotheism, without dividing or distributing Deity into a compound unity(much less a company of 'personalities), because their theology does not imply, include or necessitate such.



pj

Your scriptural ignorance is showing again...

 

[Elia]

Moses was Trinitarian.

I already showed this to you in Gen 18.

Bs'd

The only thing you showed is that you cannot read a very simple text.

This is what Moses said about God:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

Deut 6:4

And even the NT says that God is one.

So then the question arises:

What part of "GOD IS ONE" is it that you don't understand??

The whole trinity concept is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

The trinity is an idolatrous pagan illogical extra-Biblical concept, adapted by the church from much older pagan religions, in order to cover up the fact that they have two gods; a God the Father, and a god the son. 1 + 1 = 2, and therefore Christians are polytheists, worshiping a whole divine family, and that makes them IDOL WORSHIPERS!

Yes, it does.

And again, you show you don't know Hebrew.

The Jews originated the concept of idol worship.

Wrong again, as usual.

Long before the Jews existed people worshiped idols.

And the Christians still do.



Eliyahu

 

[Elia]

Moses wrote repeatedly of a Triune God.

Bs'd

The only problem is: You have to be on acid in order to be able to see those texts.

This is what Moses said:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

What part of "GOD IS ONE" is it that you don't understand??



Eliyahu, light unto the nations


"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4

"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5

 

[freelight]

Moses wrote repeatedly of a Triune God.

This is how he knew his Creator, just as He had revealed Himself.

Moses knew nothing about smoking peyote and doing yoga to connect with his God.

Your scriptural ignorance is showing again...

My assessment from an Orthodox Jewish perspective is correct, which was my point. There is only one singular Deity that is identified as 'God'. There is no necessity or logic in traditional Jewish theology for 'God' to be more than 'One' (however that is figured). - this was a doctrine that solidified within orthodox Christianity as 'Christology' issues developed making Jesus 'God' within a 'Godhead' so that a doctrine of 3 divine persons all being 'God' was theorized. Orthodox Jews who know their own scriptures, interpreting them accordingly see no need for a Trinity. - the 'concept' has no value or purpose for them.



pj

 

[keypurr]

My assessment from an Orthodox Jewish perspective is correct, which was my point. There is only one singular Deity that is identified as 'God'. There is no necessity or logic in traditional Jewish theology for 'God' to be more than 'One' (however that is figured). - this was a doctrine that solidified within orthodox Christianity as 'Christology' issues developed making Jesus 'God' within a 'Godhead' so that a doctrine of 3 divine persons all being 'God' was theorized. Orthodox Jews who know their own scriptures, interpreting them accordingly see no need for a Trinity. - the 'concept' has no value or purpose for them.



pj

Freelight if you understood Apple7 Hebrew and Apple7 Greek you just might see what he is saying. There is not talking with him its always the same o, same o.

 

[freelight]

Freelight if you understood Apple7 Hebrew and Apple7 Greek you just might see what he is saying. There is not talking with him its always the same o, same o.

- even beyond 'assumed' interpretations from the original languages, further distorted to some degree with translating it into another language (English)....its still a matter of 'encapsuling' God into a 'preconceived configuration' and making that 'concept' into a 'dogma'.

When there is no doctinal need to make Jesus 'God',....a Unitarian view is sound, simple and logical. 'God' is the One Universal Spirit-Father of all souls/spirits and creation. Only the Father which is the eternal ancestor and originator of all, is 'God'. Simple logic within a relational context, as long as God is fathering anyone or anything.

'God' is a reality way beyond even these relational points of view, for 'God' is the Infinite One...or the One Infinity. 'God' alone is absolute. - all else is relative.




pj

 

[Elia]

My assessment from an Orthodox Jewish perspective is correct, which was my point. There is only one singular Deity that is identified as 'God'. There is no necessity or logic in traditional Jewish theology for 'God' to be more than 'One' (however that is figured). - this was a doctrine that solidified within orthodox Christianity as 'Christology' issues developed making Jesus 'God' within a 'Godhead' so that a doctrine of 3 divine persons all being 'God' was theorized. Orthodox Jews who know their own scriptures, interpreting them accordingly see no need for a Trinity. - the 'concept' has no value or purpose for them.

Bs'd

More than that, the concept of "trinity" stands for polytheism and idolatry.


Eliyahu

 

[freelight]

Bs'd

More than that, the concept of "trinity" stands for polytheism and idolatry.


Eliyahu

Yes, from one level of perspective. However, the Trinity is also a conceptual model for the pluarlity of 'God' in an economical sense, befitting a particular theology of salvation. As a conceptual model, it is intellectually conceivable, although some may not accept the confusion of 'substance' and 'personalities' involved.

More interesting is considering the nature of 'God' as being a 'person' or some other constitution of 'Being' (a 'monad', etc.) We explore this in the thread below -

Is the One God a Person or a Monad?



pj

 

[beloved57]

If Jesus Christ in another Nature was not also God, then it would render His Sacrifice ineffective and not worthy of Satisfying the Law and Justice of a Perfect Holy God for a multitude of sinners that No man can number !