keypurr
Well-known member
God created all through his logos, not Jesus.
Jesus Christ, the Firstborn of Creation, Who Was First To Be Birthed into Existence
- Thread starter cgaviria
- Start date
God created all through his logos, not Jesus.
keypurr
Well-known member
Jesus is a man born to Mary, not the logos. The logos went into him at his anointing.
You just do not get it my friend.
You have not shown me anything that challenges Colossians 1:16-17
Colossians 1:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
keypurr
Well-known member
What happened to verse 15?
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Where does it say this is Jesus?
It doesn't, your adding words and thoughts to the verse.
Jesus had to be a man other wise he could not be the Lamb of God.
The true son of God is a spirit, the express image, the logos.
6days
New member
Hebrews 1:8 and hundreds of other verses throughout God's Word.
keypurr
Well-known member
It does not say JESUS, it says the son.
Heb 1:3 says the son is a spirit, not a man. The express image of God, a spirit, would be a spirit. In other words the true son is a spirit not a man.
You think this speaks of Jesus.
Go deeper.
6days
New member
Matthew 3:17 and a host of other verses in God's Word tell us who the Son is. We don't need to do scriptural gymnastics to know Jesus is the Word...the Son of God...The Messiah...mighty God...everlasting Father ...Alpha and the Omega...etc.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
It is a position of preeminence as is verse 18.
I have neither added anything nor taken anything away. It is a straight cut and paste of the King James version. But it is rather obvious that it is Jesus eh? It is only a continuation of what comes before.
keypurr
Well-known member
Its not really speaking of just Jesus. Jesus did not exist at the creation, God and the logos did.
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Your problem being that you do not accept or understand who the Logos is. John 1:14 is very specific. Read it again.
keypurr
Well-known member
6days
New member
Keypurr said:
Your 'arguments' don't seem logical... nor scriptural. *Jesus in His humanity was born / died / resurrected about 2000 years ago. But scripture is clear Jesus pre-existed (not in human form of course). Jesus... is the mighty God and everlasting Father... and Creator of all.
It is not what the Logos is, it is who the Logos is. John 1:14 is very clear.
keypurr
Well-known member
Proof you have no idea what the logos is. Jesus did not exist until he was born in a Bethlehem. He is a man, the flesh son of the most high. The logos is a spirit, the exact copy of the Father who is a spirit. You fail to see that because it disrupts what you have been taught.
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keypurr
Well-known member
The logos BECAME flesh in the body prepared for IT.
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Does not surprise me. You have never accepted Jesus or the scriptures concerning Him;
John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
I would presume you realize what you are implying here. God is Infinite. To suggest that Infinity copied Himself is to suggest that we now have Two Gods. This would be a Binity... and not a BiUnity. To make matters more perplexing is that you dogmatically believe what you say so staunchly that you find it "liberating".
Liberation... Freedom... Are you still under the "Law", according to your belief system? In other words... Per your understanding ... Do you see the "Created" Copy of The Father as a simple revelation that re-iterated the Stone Law?
On this note... Are you aware that this verse (Ex. 33:18) is tied to this verse... (Ex. 33:11) and again to this verse (Ex. 40:34) ... Which ties to this verse ... (Ex. 13:21) ... which is rectified to full revelation here (1 Co. 10:1f, 3f).
It literally reveals that every manifestation of the Father that is seen is Jesus.
Whats the issue here? It is this... the word used in Ex. 33 to describe this "Manifestation" of the Father is... (יְהוָ֤ה).
That, my friend is none other than the very Tetragramaton Himself. (In the Spiritual FLESH) You literally have to intentionally deny scripture in totality to deny this. This is why verses like (Col. 1:15, John 1:18 and John 6:46) are so challenging to you.
You are trying to pound a theological square peg into a non-existent hole.
My last question... What is this? (Rm. 8:9 and Eph. 1:13)
When you say "IT"... why do you depersonalize the "Spirit of Christ"?
And what does the following scripture mean friend?
Ephesians 1:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
keypurr
Well-known member
What does that have to do with the logos? The logos is not a man.
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