And Jesus loved him enough to die for him so that he might have life if he so chooses after his resurrection.
Jesus Christ is God Almighty, Jehovah
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
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And Jesus loved him enough to die for him so that he might have life if he so chooses after his resurrection.
Paul is using an analogy to show that, just as "the spirit of a man" knows that thoughts of the same man, so "the spirit of God" reveals God's own thoughts. The analogy shows that "the spirit of God" is not a separate person or being (just as a man's spirit is not somemone separate).
Some people say the same thing about the pope.
Right Divider
Body part
That is crazy. If you can believe that, then you can believe anything; no matter how ridiculous.
So you think that anyone BUT God can be "equal with God"? :kookoo:
God makes it crystal clear throughout scripture that there is NONE like Him! He has NO equal!
Right Divider
Body part
Yes and Jesus had that same Spirit from all eternity.
John 17:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
OK, then so does every human being who has the same "spirit" from God that Adam received (Genesis 2:7).
Do you think that Paul was a multi-personal being (like your version of "God") because he said his "spirit" was with the Corinthians when his "body" was somewhere else (1 Corinthians 5:3)?
marhig
Well-known member
Jesus lived for all to bare witness to the truth and bring us the way, his life is the only life and his way is the only way to follow. We are saved by the life of Jesus Jamie not his death on the cross, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that we are saved by the natural death of Jesus on the cross. It clearly says we are saved by his life, by believing him, and through faith, in following him, and by the grace of God we are saved. Nothing about the natural cross. Jesus never ever taught this and nor did his apostles. The cross Paul speaks about is the cross Jesus bore, just as Jesus told us to bare our cross to follow him. And the blood is his life within, the blood we drink and the flesh we eat is taking the life of Christ inside and living it out. Our life gone and his blood flowing through us bringing life by the spirit to the church. Blood brings oxygen to the members of the body, the blood of Christ brings the breath of life by the spirit to the members of the church.
Satan at the hands of wicked men crucified Jesus, they were cruel and they murdered the prince of life. There's nothing good about the crucifixion. And Jesus had finished the work that the father had given him to do before he went on the cross. When he said it is finished on the cross, he had completely overcome Satan, overcoming evil with good. Even forgiving those who crucified him. Satan couldn't get him to sin no matter how hard he tried, even by scourging and crucifying him, Jesus still obeyed the will of God and showed love and mercy in place of wickedness and he saved the thief and hopefully the centurion too. He was full of love, mercy and forgiveness, he was full of God and in his express image.
Jesus himself told the Jewish leaders that they were doing the works if the devil by trying to kill him. God said thou shalt not kill, and that includes not killing Jesus. God knew what Satan would do to Jesus and he foretold out in the old testament, and Jesus fulfilled those scriptures but that doesn't mean that God wanted that to happen. Jesus was willing for it because he wanted to bring us the truth and show us the way back God and save as many as he could.
Jesus came dead to his flesh but alive in God to save us. Through the word of God, through the ministry of reconciliation and once we believe then we are saved from our past sins and when we are born of God then the holy spirit will be teaching us the truth in our hearts, showing us our sins and teaching us to turn from sin and we wouldn't even know anything if Jesus hadn't of laid down his life to show us the way and bring the living God to us by a new and living way. We are reconciled to God through a being dead to his flesh, but we are saved by his life. And I will fall on my face and worship him because without him I'd still be dead in my sins. But I know that he isn't the Almighty God and father.
God doesn't require a human sacrifice, he requires a living sacrifice and that is what Jesus was. And that is what Gods true children will be of they follow Jesus. They will be living sacrifices, laying down their lives to do the will of our holy loving father and we are forever indebted to our lord Jesus for coming here to show is how to live, coming into this sinful flesh, he who knew no sin to show us the way to live before God our father and to bring us back to him and we are saved by his life, firstly by believing and having faith then by Christ resurrected in our hearts by the holy spirit, being raised by God from death to life, from darkness into light and all through Jesus Christ,
marhig
Well-known member
The only way Jesus was equal was by the power of the spirit. There is only one God and he's the father as it says in the Bible.
You believe what you want.
Right Divider
Body part
By what fallacious reasoning do you come to that conclusion?
Genesis 2:7 is talking about what God did ONE time with ONE person.
:french:
You're lack of ability to understand figures of speech tells me that you're not going to understand most of the Bible.
1Cor 5:3 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
IN SPIRIT does NOT means that Paul's spirit departed his body and visited Corinth.
God is not like anyone else.
Right Divider
Body part
I'll go ahead and believe the truth.
The Bible declares that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all God.
marhig
Well-known member
Actually no it doesn't, the Bible declares the father, son and the holy spirit, but it doesn't say that they are all God and it doesn't say that we are saved by believing that either. But as I said you go ahead and believe what you will, that's between you and God and no one else. God knows who has heard the truth and we will be judged on that and how we live by it.
Right in off to make my tea.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why did you just ignore what I said in regard to the fact that Paul said that the Lord Jesus exists in the "form of God"?
The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).
So since the Lord Jesus is in the form of God then the verse is speaking about how He appears to the inhabitants of heaven.
And He couldn't appear that way to those inhabitants unless He is God.
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why would the Lord Jesus be called the "everlasting Father" if He is not the Father? Your answer makes no sense.
And what do you say about the words of the Lord Jesus here?:
"Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (Jn.14:9).
Of course the Lord Jesus is speaking about Jehovah the Potter when He referred to the Father:
"But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand" (Isa.64:8).
The Lord Jesus certainly cannot be excluded from being the "Potter" since "by Him were all things created" (Col.1:16). That explains why we read the following about the Lord Jesus:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace" (Isa.9:6).
What does your Bible say at Isaiah 9:6?
No, the pronoun "us" has to be referring to God and no one else:
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Gen.1:26-27).
In verse 26 it is the "us" who made man and in verse 27 it is God that made man. Therefore, the word "us" has to be referring to God. So we can understand that God is a plurality.
You do not worship God by calling someone God who is not God. So when Thomas said these following words to the Lord Jesus he certainly believed that Jesus is God:
"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:28).
Of course those close to the Lord Jesus knew that He is God. After all, who else but God would dare say what the Lord Jesus said here?:
"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).
If the Lord Jesus said that and He is not God then it would be blasphemy of the worse kind.
No, He was equal with God because only God can be the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. And that is exactly how the Lord Jesus described Himself (Rev.22:13).
Even while in heaven the Lord Jesus is described as "man":
"And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56).
I answered why the Lord Jesus spoke of having a God. Since He was made man in every way then He necessarily had a God.
Nice post, but it has nothing to do with what I said.
How gracious you are.
Oh bummer. I wish it was packed full of Hersheys.
marhig
Well-known member
Jerry I don't agree with what you say, you are trying to make verses suit your way of belief. I've tried explain what I believe those verses mean but you just ask the same questions over again.
The Bible clearly says that God is the God and father of Jesus whilst Jesus was in flesh and when he had passed on. Nowhere in the Bible does it say I must believe in the trinity, but that I'm to believe in the only true God, the father and the son of God Jesus who is the Christ. And I believe that.
We'll have to agree to disagree
marhig
Well-known member
Well it has, because you said that Jesus loved Satan enough to die for him, I'm saying that Jesus didn't die on the natural cross to save anyone he lived to save us.
And as for Satan being reconciled to God, well that's between him and God, but I can't see it really, as when Jesus preached the truth, he murdered him through wicked men, just like he did with the prophets before Jesus. Satan hates the truth and wants it put to death, he's always trying to overcome good with evil and the truth with lies he's a deceiver, murder and a liar and he changes the ways of God to suit the flesh.
But Satan is under the control of God, And he will deal with him, all that isn't for me to worry about, I'm just to get my heart right before God now, through Christ, and bring his love to others.
marhig
Well-known member
Yes you're right, that doesn't sound how I meant it to, I'm sorry.
I mean he will believe as he will, and it's between him and God and God judges us on what we know. Only God knows who has heard the truth and who's listened and obeyed him and is doing his will.
Only God knows the depths of our hearts.