Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[Dartman]

I was correcting GO because He was making Joseph out to be over all of Egypt INCLUDING or EQUAL TO Pharaoh. But Joseph was not greater than or equal to Pharaoh.

You're being dishonest .... and it appears to be, your intent is just to "Troll".
GO NEVER SAID "equal to Pharaoh" .... that's YOUR twist to his words.
GO DID say BOTH ruled over all Egypt, and as I corrected your previous post, I showed the Scripture stating such.

 

[God's Truth]

Yep, and he still is a man, and a servant with God as his head, and a son.

It does not mean that Jesus is not God come as a man in the flesh.
I give many scriptures that show that truth.

1) You are correct Jesus is NOT literally ruling as King of the planet YET.
2) WHAT "will be established at his 2nd coming"???
His Kingdom will be.... but what are YOU talking about??

Jesus is reigning now and will reign until he puts his enemies under his feet.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,

Ephesians 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.

Colossians 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Hebrews 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

No, Jesus was "made of a woman".
Jesus came into literal existence as a flesh and blood baby boy.
He was MADE, created, constructed, generated, born.
Jehovah/YHVH God caused Mary to conceive by God's power.
Jesus "came forth " unto God and men in Bethlehem .... EXACTLY like Jehovah/YHVH had foretold.
Jesus submitted himself to his God, and took on the "mind" of a servant, AFTER his God had given him all power and all authority

Jesus came from heaven.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

Hmmm ... somehow I think you are confusing me with someone else you explained this to. Please explain whether "higher than every name" includes Jehovah/YHVH God.
And, please explain WHICH name is "higher than every name".

I have explained this to you. Jesus was given the name above all names. That means he was given the names God has.

Yes he was! And, when God the Father is ready, HE will send Jesus BACK to the earth, to conquer the planet, and rule it.

Jesus will come and raise dead, the wrath will come, Satan and his angels thrown in the lake of fire, and all the people who rejected God, and death and Hades thrown in the lake of fire. Then Jesus hands the kingdom over to the Father.

 

[glorydaz]

You're being dishonest .... and it appears to be, your intent is just to "Troll".
GO NEVER SAID "equal to Pharaoh" .... that's YOUR twist to his words.
GO DID say BOTH ruled over all Egypt, and as I corrected your previous post, I showed the Scripture stating such.

You aren't smart enough to correct anyone.

JR was doing exactly what he said, so charging him with dishonesty is a false accusation.

You just didn't catch it. :nono:

 

[SabathMoon]

No, I admit to knowing Him in Whom I have my faith.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Well, according to this passage, if I believe he is, I won't die in sin. I feel you that you feel and don't know.

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7,I find your methods of discussion more difficult than any other member on this forum.

Thank you.

Yes, Jesus’ glory is derived.
Psalm 8:5 (KJV): For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Kind regards
Trevor

Please show us the Hebrew word rendered as 'derived' in this passage.

 

[way 2 go]

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

It says Jesus has glory before the world existed

Yes.

you should have stopped there.

That doesn't mean Jesus was THERE. It means God had complete foreknowledge of the events about to unfold after Christ's prayer. And that God had glory planned for his beloved son.

Jesus says he had glory before the creation of the world and Jesus is saying glorify me again with that glory He had previously .

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again glorydaz and 7djengo7,

You touch on both sides, but that is not the Glory of God. God's Glory is the manifestation of God's Holiness.
Isaiah 6:3KJV And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Holy Father Holy Son Holy Spirit Holy Holy Holy

You cannot prove that “Holy Holy Holy” is speaking of the Trinity. Actually Isaiah 6 is one of my favourite chapters, and I am disappointed that you use this chapter in support of the Trinity, and are most probably unwilling to discuss this remarkable chapter that is quoted in the NT in interesting ways and contexts a number of times.

You're certainly working hard to deny Jesus Christ is Lord and God. The Jews understood exactly what He was saying.

For example, Jesus answered their charge of blasphemy in John 10:30-36, but you seem to align yourself with their perspective.

Hehehe. You contradicted yourself, egregiously, and I called you out on it. And THAT bit of transparent stupidity (your post, #667) is the best you could come up with to try to save face for yourself! And, you failed!

I would be interested in how both of you, glorydaz and 7djengo7 understand the following, but from my perspective this teaches that Yahweh Psalm 8:1, that is God the Father (compare Psalm 110:1) crowned Jesus the Son of God with glory and honour.
Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Thank you.

The following is an example of this difficulty. If you want to persist in this method then please excuse me from being involved.

Please show us the Hebrew word rendered as 'derived' in this passage.

To be crowned indicates a process, where Yahweh God the Father has crowned Jesus the Son of God with glory and honour Psalm 8:5-6.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

You have tried to write off the truth before by saying that, but you cannot get around the fact that Jesus says that before Abraham was I AM.
This is what God says in the Old Testament about Himself:
Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.
Isaiah 41:4 Who has performed this and carried it out, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the LORD--the first and the last--I am He."
God, in the Old Testament says 'I am he', and in the same scriptures he says he is the 'first and the last'.
Now read what is said about Jesus in Revelation:
Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Jesus is the I am and the First and the Last.

I appreciate the perspective. This is the first time that I have seen the various “I am he” passages of John linked with Isaiah 48:12. My experience is that they are usually suggested as linked with Exodus 3:14. I assume that you know that the so-called “I AM” of Exodus 3:14 is a different word to the “1 am he” of Isaiah 48:12. You seem to reject my suggestion that the "I am he" of John's Gospel is a theme concerning whether or not Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. I will not volunteer to discuss “the first and the last” as my explanation is complicated. It satisfies my understanding, but would not be easy for you to accept, especially judging from the above response.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Dartman]

It does not mean that Jesus is not God come as a man in the flesh.
I give many scriptures that show that truth.

No, you don't. You give many Scriptures that are merely worded in such a way, that YOU THINK supports your theory, in spite of the verses that contradict your theory.

Jesus is reigning now and will reign until he puts his enemies under his feet.

Jesus IS reigning in the hearts of those that accept him.
AND, Jesus HAS been given "all authority in heaven and on earth", and he now uses that authority to control/shape the world in which we live.
BUT, Jesus has NOT YET replaced the governments of this world with his righteous government ..... as any check of the news will prove.
Jesus has NOT YET established the peace he is going to establish.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,

Which name is "the name"?

Jesus came from heaven.

Of course. Just like EVERY good gift comes down from God.

Jesus came down from heaven. See John 6:38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

Of course. Just like EVERY good gift comes down from God.

John 3:13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.

Correct. NO other human being has "ever gone into heaven" except Jesus. I've already explained HOW Jesus "came down from heaven".

John 6:62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!

This is talking about his resurrection. They were about to witness Jesus being raised from the dead "to where he was before".

I have explained this to you. Jesus was given the name above all names. That means he was given the names God has.

You switched from singular "the name" to plural "nameS" ..... please explain.

Jesus will come and raise dead, the wrath will come, Satan and his angels thrown in the lake of fire, and all the people who rejected God, and death and Hades thrown in the lake of fire. Then Jesus hands the kingdom over to the Father.

Yes, with 1,000 years between Jesus coming, and the 2nd resurrection.

Rev 20:5 And the REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN, until the 1,000 years is finished.

The judgement of Satan and the wicked, and their destruction happens AFTER the 2nd resurrection.
Jehovah/YHVH God has appointed Jesus to do the judging.
Once the smoke has settled, God creates a 3rd heaven and earth, and then comes to dwell here on the earth with Jesus and all of Jesus' brethren. THEN Jesus hands the kingdom over to his God.

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, I appreciate the perspective. This is the first time that I have seen the various “I am he” passages of John linked with Isaiah 48:12. My experience is that they are usually suggested as linked with Exodus 3:14. I assume that you know that the so-called “I AM” of Exodus 3:14 is a different word to the “1 am he” of Isaiah 48:12. You seem to reject my suggestion that the "I am he" of John's Gospel is a theme concerning whether or not Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. I will not volunteer to discuss “the first and the last” as my explanation is complicated. It satisfies my understanding, but would not be easy for you to accept, especially judging from the above response.

Kind regards
Trevor

You can't defend your false beliefs against what I said, or you would.

God in the Old Testament says I am He, the First and the Last.

That is what Jesus is called.

 

[way 2 go]

The being named YHVH is called God throughout the entire Bible and is also called the Father in the New Testament.
The being named Jesus is the Son of YHVH.

Jesus is also God
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Therefore, they can't both be the same being, so saying Jesus is God would be incorrect.

no .

one God three persons

Gen 32:30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, "For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered."

Exo 33:19 And He said, I will cause all My goodness to pass before your face. And I will call out the name of Jehovah before your face. And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy.
Exo 33:20 And He said, You are not able to see My face; for no man can see Me and live.

Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Are you trying (and failing) to say that the Father, known as God (proper noun) throughout the entire Bible, is a god (noun) and that the Son of God is also a god (noun)?

no

Or are you trying (and failing) to say that God (proper noun) is a title of the being named YHVH and that the being named Jesus, who is the Son of YHVH, also has the same title of God (proper noun)?

no.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
my point is the commandments are God's commandments which Jesus claims are his commandments
therefore Jesus is God


Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
my point is only God is lord of the sabbath and Jesus claims to be Lord of the sabbath
therefore Jesus is God

 

[Dartman]

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

It says Jesus has glory before the world existed

Yes, it does! The Scriptures ALSO state that each believer has glory before the world existed.

That doesn't mean Jesus was THERE. It means God had complete foreknowledge of the events about to unfold after Christ's prayer. And that God had glory planned for his beloved son.

God had glory planned for ALL the believers;

Rom 8:29-30 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

1 Cor 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

 

[Dartman]

Jesus is also God
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Let's look at your proof text.
DOES it say "Jesus is God".

NO.

Does it say Jesus IS before Abraham WAS?

YES!

And all we have to do is look at God's statement in Gen 3:15, AND look at what Enoch was preaching, found in Jude, ..... AND YES!! Jesus IS there~!!

And, THAT is why Abraham rejoiced to SEE CHRIST'S DAY.

 

[God's Truth]

No, you don't. You give many Scriptures that are merely worded in such a way, that YOU THINK supports your theory, in spite of the verses that contradict your theory.

That is just mere denials from you and nothing more.

Jesus IS reigning in the hearts of those that accept him.
AND, Jesus HAS been given "all authority in heaven and on earth", and he now uses that authority to control/shape the world in which we live.
BUT, Jesus has NOT YET replaced the governments of this world with his righteous government ..... as any check of the news will prove.
Jesus has NOT YET established the peace he is going to establish.

Just more denial from you against what is written.

Which name is "the name"?

Jesus is called Redeemer, Savior, Rock, the Holy One, the First and the Last, Savior, Deliverer, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, King of kings, Lord of lords, and God; all the names God the Father is called, even the name 'Father'. All those names are GOD THE FATHER's NAMES.

Of course. Just like EVERY good gift comes down from God.

No, not just like that.

Yes, with 1,000 years between Jesus coming, and the 2nd resurrection.

Rev 20:5 And the REST OF THE DEAD LIVED NOT AGAIN, until the 1,000 years is finished.

The first resurrection is when we are saved and seated with him in the heavenly realms.

The judgement of Satan and the wicked, and their destruction happens AFTER the 2nd resurrection.
Jehovah/YHVH God has appointed Jesus to do the judging.
Once the smoke has settled, God creates a 3rd heaven and earth, and then comes to dwell here on the earth with Jesus and all of Jesus' brethren. THEN Jesus hands the kingdom over to his God.

Give the scriptures.

 

[clefty]

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
my point is the commandments are God's commandments which Jesus claims are his commandments
therefore Jesus is God


Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
my point is only God is lord of the sabbath and Jesus claims to be Lord of the sabbath
therefore Jesus is God

However you claim all this was abolished...so your god has changeable laws...not perfect...not eternal

Your lord of the sabbath destroyed the very thing that gave him that authority...the proof he was there at the creation when the sabbath was instituted...

Your gospel is another...

As is your christ...

It was FALSE WITNESS that Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses...having received them from He Who was there from the beginning...these laws which describe what life is like where “I AM”

Your triune god of the abolished laws is indeed quite another from the One Who has an Eternal IMMUTABLE Law...

 

[way 2 go]

Yes, it does! The Scriptures ALSO state that each believer has glory before the world existed.

That doesn't mean Jesus was THERE. It means God had complete foreknowledge of the events about to unfold after Christ's prayer. And that God had glory planned for his beloved son.

God had glory planned for ALL the believers;

Rom 8:29-30 For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son,that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called, them He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified.

1 Cor 2:7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

try again

I noticed you could not answer the highlighted part

Jesus says he had glory before the creation of the world and Jesus is saying glorify me again with that glory He had previously .

Joh 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

 

[God's Truth]

However you claim all this was abolished...so your god has changeable laws...not perfect...not eternal

Your lord of the sabbath destroyed the very thing that gave him that authority...the proof he was there at the creation when the sabbath was instituted...

Your gospel is another...

As is your christ...

It was FALSE WITNESS that Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses...having received them from He Who was there from the beginning...these laws which describe what life is like where “I AM”

Your triune god of the abolished laws is indeed quite another from the One Who has an Eternal IMMUTABLE Law...

Jesus is the temple, the Sabbath Rest, the circumcision, the washing, the sacrificial Lamb, the High Priest.

The Jews don't obey the law anymore as given to Moses, they cannot, not unless they come to God through Jesus.

 

[way 2 go]

However you claim all this was abolished...so your god has changeable laws...not perfect...not eternal

Your lord of the sabbath destroyed the very thing that gave him that authority...the proof he was there at the creation when the sabbath was instituted...

Your gospel is another...

As is your christ...

It was FALSE WITNESS that Yahushua changed the customs delivered by Moses...having received them from He Who was there from the beginning...these laws which describe what life is like where “I AM”

Your triune god of the abolished laws is indeed quite another from the One Who has an Eternal IMMUTABLE Law...

 

[clefty]

Jesus is the temple, the Sabbath Rest, the circumcision, the washing, the sacrificial Lamb, the High Priest.

yup...a temple to what Law? He does not replace a chronological day...He does circumcise the inward man...washes him from the world and INTO HIS WAYS...the Lamb indeed by which on Judgement day those IN HIM will be passed over when that final wrath occurs...

High priest to what Law pray tell?

The Jews don't obey the law anymore as given to Moses, they cannot, not unless they come to God through Jesus.

There is indeed NO distinction between jew and goyim as both are IN HIM a new creation a citizen of Israel...now act like it...behave as if you were in His House...do not divide it with your own laws or traditions...

To be IN HIM is to follow HIM HIS WAY...not a variant compromise...if the law could be changed it would have been sparing Him and billions dead...but even the martyrs knew His Law was uncompromising...