Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God

[Aimiel]

Another person who doesn't know the meaning of the word YHWH.

Actually, it isn't a word. It's the word that Jews used to use until about the third century in regard to God, Who has never revealed His Name; Whom they now refer to as: Adonai or Elohim (God). Jesus is The Name Above ALL Names. He's also: God.

 

[SabathMoon]

Actually, it isn't a word. It's the word that Jews used to use until about the third century in regard to God, Who has never revealed His Name; Whom they now refer to as: Adonai or Elohim (God). Jesus is The Name Above ALL Names. He's also: God.

Of course it is word. It is spelled with what could be called 4 vowels. The El/God has most certainly introduced this as his name, because it certainly isn't Allah. God is not a man, but you say he is. It called the minor sin of idolatry.

 

[God's Truth]

Says no verse ever.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called.

 

[God's Truth]

Of course it is word. It is spelled with what could be called 4 vowels. The El/God has most certainly introduced this as his name, because it certainly isn't Allah. God is not a man, but you say he is. It called the minor sin of idolatry.

God is not a man who lies. That is what the scripture says. Jesus is God come as a man and never lied as all humans have at one time or another.

 

[SabathMoon]

God is not a man who lies. That is what the scripture says. Jesus is God come as a man and never lied as all humans have at one time or another.

Yes, idolater.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, idolater.

Jesus is on God the Father's throne. You don't obey the one on the throne?

 

[SonOfCaleb]

The ONLY reason I have continued to use Jehovah, rather than Yahweh, or some other variant, is the ASV uses Jehovah, which is VERY familiar to everyone ..... yes, I do still get the occasional whining about the letter "J", and that kind of trivia .... but, as I mentioned, I am sure NO ONE knows how YHVH was pronounced 3,500 years ago, when Jehovah introduced it to Moses, and Israel.

The pronounciation Yahweh according to linguistic expert Rolf Furili is nothing more than a 'scholarly guess' and is likely an incorrect pronunciation of the name. There does appear to be ample proof that 'Yehovah' or Jehovah is the correct pronunciation of Gods divine name. As you rightly stated Jehovah has been used for hundreds of years and is the most well known transliteration and pronunciation of the name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjpGXSyIqTc&t=0s&index=9&list=PLnJ2B5XEcp-nA-T0WzwvVHJs7Q3uSS5U6

See @ 19:20

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7,This is a strange mixing of ideas. You should be able to do better than this (This is using your method of response, but I am not willing to waste my time to unravel your amalgam of ideas, and lack of understanding of many of the above passages -

You give up way too easy, Trev.

You always give up on The Word of God.

You can't cherry pick your way through scripture, and then cry foul and repeatedly walk away when it doesn't agree with your cultic worldview.

Jesus is the Son of God and his glory is derived, and God the Father has always had glory).

Kind regards
Trevor

Said scripture, never.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Jesus is on God the Father's throne. You don't obey the one on the throne?

why do you people always feel the need to make up stuff. Jesus sits at the right hand of the father

 

[Apple7]

Why do you people always feel the need to make up stuff. Jesus sits at the right hand of the father

The Right Hand IS The Holy Spirit.

 

[Dartman]

But He also is God:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Yes, a name that includes his God's name .... like MANY other Hebrew names. That's his NAME, not his definition. As an illustration, let's look at what the LXX, translated about 250BC says;

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

That name is; Pele’Yow`eets’ElGibowr`Abiy`adSarShaalowm.

For He is God the Son:

If this was true, you should find this being proclaimed all over the NT. But it is Not in any verse in the Bible.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
As you probably know, Heb 1:8,9 are quoted from Psa 45, which is to all the Kings of Israel.

So, ALL the Kings of Israel are called "God".

Jesus is the King of Israel, since his God gave him the throne of his father David, so this passage applies to Jesus also.

So, the question then becomes, who are "thy fellows", and who is "thy God"?

 

[Dartman]

They are MORE than clear, they're un-mistakeably perfect in pointing out Jesus as Creator. If you don't believe that Jesus is God, you'll die in your sins.

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 8:25-30 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.


So, when they asked "Who art thou"?

JESUS did NOT reply "I'm God"........ EVER.

Jesus DID explain that he IS SENT by his Father, and that he did NOTHING of himself, and he always pleased his God.

 

[Dartman]

jou welcome...

Off the mark Dartman but feel free to take another shot whenever...another one more on the mark...

clefty watches him dart off...

LOL .... in jou dreams.

 

[JudgeRightly]

John 8:25-30 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.
27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please Him.
30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.


So, when they asked "Who art thou"?

JESUS did NOT reply "I'm God"........ EVER.

This is an argument from silence. A logical fallacy.

There's a reason He didn't directly claim to be God, and it wasn't because He wasn't God.

It was because doing so would have brought Himself into premature conflict with the religious leaders and the Roman empire, and since His mission (from His Father) was to come to earth, live a perfect life, die for the sins of the world, and preach to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, that would have seriously compromised those plans.

Thus, it was better for Him to only indirectly claim to be God, as per John 10:33 and similar passages.

Jesus DID explain that he IS SENT by his Father, and that he did NOTHING of himself, and he always pleased his God.

None of which contradicts what I said above.

So if we were comparing arguments, you're relying on a logical fallacy, whereas I am simply relying on scripture and what is recorded in History.

See the problem yet?

 

[Dartman]

This is an argument from silence. A logical fallacy.

No, it's good exegesis. It is of UTMOST importance.
Jesus, and the apostles, explained WHO Jesus is/was HUNDREDS of times ...... and NEVER ONCE did they explain even ONE tenet that is unique to either trinity or oneness. AND, you ignored the content Jesus HIMSELF explained.

There's a reason He didn't directly claim to be God, and it wasn't because He wasn't God.

It was because doing so would have brought Himself into premature conflict with the religious leaders and the Roman empire, and since His mission (from His Father) was to come to earth, live a perfect life, die for the sins of the world, and preach to the lost sheep of the House of Israel, that would have seriously compromised those plans.

Yeah ..... I'm well aware of the theory, and it's full of holes.
For instance,
1) JESUS WAS ALREADY IN CONFLICT WITH THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS. Rome couldn't care less! THEY only got involved because the religious leaders FORCED them to.
2) The religious leaders had already accused Jesus of "making himself equal with God".... so he had NOTHING to lose.
3) We have records of the apostles explaining who Jesus is/was to people who were outside of Israel, in some cases entirely pagan, and NOT ONCE do ANY of the apostles, or any other teacher in the Bible, explain a tenet that is unique to either trinity or oneness. [/quote]

 

[JudgeRightly]

No, it's good exegesis.

A logical fallacy is never good exegesis, no matter what the subject.

It is of UTMOST importance.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Logical fallacies don't work because they are illogical.

Jesus, and the apostles, explained WHO Jesus is/was HUNDREDS of times ...... and NEVER ONCE did they explain even ONE tenet that is unique to either trinity or oneness.

Using a logical fallacy to defend your beliefs won't work here.

Again, you're making an argument from silence.

AND, you ignored the content Jesus HIMSELF explained.

Yeah ..... I'm well aware of the theory, and it's full of holes.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

For instance,
1) JESUS WAS ALREADY IN CONFLICT WITH THE RELIGIOUS LEADERS. Rome couldn't care less! THEY only got involved because the religious leaders FORCED them to.

Exactly. They got involved exactly when Jesus wanted them to, after 3 years of His earthly ministry.

I suggest you read through the Gospels again, and pay attention to the level of irritation of the religious leaders as the story progresses.

Had Jesus claimed to be God from the beginning, they would have put Him to death well before He was ready.

2) The religious leaders had already accused Jesus of "making himself equal with God".... so he had NOTHING to lose.

And what was their reaction to Him telling them that?

They were about to stone Him, because the penalty for blasphemy, as stated by GOD HIMSELF, was death.

Even on it's own, such a claim either makes Him a liar, in which case nothing He said should be trusted, and our faith is in vain, or He was God, and was not blaspheming.

So which is, it, Dart, was Jesus blaspheming God? Or was He God?

3) We have records of the apostles explaining who Jesus is/was to people who were outside of Israel, in some cases entirely pagan, and NOT ONCE do ANY of the apostles, or any other teacher in the Bible, explain a tenet that is unique to either trinity or oneness.

Once again, an argument from silence does not a valid argument make.

 

[chair]

Which version are you talking about?
The Bible mentions more than one version.
Moses broke the first set of commandments.

It would be insteresting to be able to see what that version orinially said, wouldn’t it?

A strange statement. The Bible records both sets. They are similar

 

[Dartman]

A logical fallacy is never good exegesis, no matter what the subject.

You are mislabeling the point as "an argument from silence".
The Bible is the ONLY source of inspired truth that is COMMON to all that are seeking truth. There are many texts that instruct us to examine the Scriptures to know God, and God's plan, and God's son. So, the fact that a doctrine you SEEM to think is the single most important belief, is NEVER .... EVER explained in Scriptures is NOT a "logical fallacy".
The Scriptures CLEARLY instruct us to beware of any "Christ", any "Jesus" that is false! And, that looking at what the apostles taught is crucial;

2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


So, your claim that failure to find your "Jesus" preached any where in Scriptures is 'a logical fallacy' is in direct contradiction with Scripture that instructs us PRECISELY, to reject any "Jesus" or any "Gospel" that IS NOT PREACHED in Scripture!!

Exactly. They got involved exactly when Jesus wanted them to, after 3 years of His earthly ministry.

Your timing isn't correct;
John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


This was the opinion of the Jewish leaders BEFORE John 8, which we were discussing.

 

[God's Truth]

why do you people always feel the need to make up stuff. Jesus sits at the right hand of the father

Revelation 3:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Jesus' throne is the Father's throne.

 

[clefty]

A strange statement. The Bible records both sets. They are similar

Strange indeed but we are fortunate the Christians know there is a 10 at all...

jews attempted through slander and false witness to have believing jews and goyim think that Yahushua changed...even destroyed...the customs delivered by Moses