Jesus CANNOT be Jehovah/YHVH God
- Thread starter Dartman
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That is the Eastern belief.
Please let the majority West know their error.
Thank you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque
No...only ONE remains IMMORTAL...everything else is begotten created or born...
Even at the end of this detour of sin...man will be restored to the status of Man as created —->DEPENDENT ON THE TREE OF LIFE...once blocked from access to the tree of life man being mortal only...began to die physically
The tree of life will be available in the new world...with man dependant again on it...to live eternally...
Immortal means NO POINT OF ORIGIN...always was always will be...the Son begotten is only eternal as there was a time prior His begetting that He was NOT begotten...the IMMORTAL Father not a Father BUT ONLY BECOMING A FATHER AT THE BEGETTING OF A SON...
Ummm ..... you are WAY confused about the definition of "immortal"!
It has NOTHING to do with origin ..... it has EVERYTHING to do with; CANNOT DIE.
Here is the definition of Mortality; NT:2349 thnetos (thnay-tos'); from NT:2348; liable to die: KJV - mortal (-ity).
Here is IMMORTALITY;
NT:110 athanasia (ath-an-as-ee'-ah); from a compound of NT:1 (as a negative particle) and NT:2288; deathlessness: KJV - immortality.
musterion
Well-known member
Psalm 2:
No one can argue that this can only be speaking of Christ.
But when that was written, Christ hadn’t yet been born into this world.
Yet there He was being referred to by God as His Son, in Whom all are to trust lest they perish.
THIS SAYS THAT BEFORE HE TOOK ON FLESH, CHRIST WAS GOD'S SON.
So as Christ said during His incarnation, "The Father and I are One." Perfect harmony there.
But here's the capper:
Since there is, numerically, only one God -- beside Whom there is no other -- God is telling us that He exists in three co-equal, co-existent Persons...Father, Son and Spirit.
Perfect harmony there too.
Trinitarianism is the only model that even tries dealing fairly with all this. All other models are inadequate or dishonest, and so they fail.
No one can argue that this can only be speaking of Christ.
But when that was written, Christ hadn’t yet been born into this world.
Yet there He was being referred to by God as His Son, in Whom all are to trust lest they perish.
THIS SAYS THAT BEFORE HE TOOK ON FLESH, CHRIST WAS GOD'S SON.
So as Christ said during His incarnation, "The Father and I are One." Perfect harmony there.
But here's the capper:
Since there is, numerically, only one God -- beside Whom there is no other -- God is telling us that He exists in three co-equal, co-existent Persons...Father, Son and Spirit.
Perfect harmony there too.
Trinitarianism is the only model that even tries dealing fairly with all this. All other models are inadequate or dishonest, and so they fail.
musterion
Well-known member
The only way to respond to the above is to say "The Bible is wrong" (which would be refreshingly honest for at least one of you to finally admit what you really think). Or to take the usual Satanic route and try to rewrite it to make it stop saying what it says. Or just ignore it or snark on it, which is the realm of defeated juvenile punks and hypocrites.
Or you can just accept it as true, because it is.
But you can't refute it. All you can do is reject it, but not without calling God a liar.
Taking the Bible exactly as it is, accepting it as without contradiction wherever it leads, will make a Trinitarian out of you. And a dispensationalist.
Or you can just accept it as true, because it is.
But you can't refute it. All you can do is reject it, but not without calling God a liar.
Taking the Bible exactly as it is, accepting it as without contradiction wherever it leads, will make a Trinitarian out of you. And a dispensationalist.
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genuineoriginal
New member
So, when we believers put off our mortal bodies and put on our immortal bodies, we will become immortal with no point of origin?
Correct.
Also correct, Psa 2 is a prophecy.M said:
Nope. Psa 2 is a prophecy.M said:
Ach du liebe!!...well that does help...HAHAHA...
Good to be corrected...thanks
HalleluYah...so Yah is ETERNAL and His Begotten Son is IMMORTAL...good to know...
Thanks for that...
No...hang on...as Dartman corrected me...I confused immortality with eternal...
Yah IS ETERNAL...no point of origin and then He finally begot a Son Who IS immortal and has a point of origin. ...a point in time which made Yah a Father...His Son Immortal...
We are made mortal dependent on the tree of life...which makes us immortal but not ETERNAL only ONE is ETERNAL...the FATHER...all the rest are begotten created or born...
We put off our earthly tents to receive the heavenly buildings...further clothed not naked...nor desiring to be unclothed...but further clothed...with immortality through access to the tree of life...provided to us by WHAT our brother did...we are never ETERNAL...but only mortal...putting on immortality...further clothed...
Hope that clarifies...
One God Deut 6:4 in three persons Matthew 28:19. Can't be refuted by making the point that they are not the same person. The "One God in three persons" statement is not a claim that they are "the same person".
Hebrews 8:6-11 says it is Christ speaking as God at Sinai. And it is Christ in Jer 31:31-33 stating the New Covenant.
Now therefore, be wise, O kings; Be instructed, you judges of the earth.Serve the Lord with fear, And rejoice with trembling.Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, And you perish in the way, When His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him. - Psalm 2:10-12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm2:10-12&version=NKJV
This part, at the very least, isn't a prophecy. It's a command.
"Now, therefore..."
:duh:
musterion
Well-known member
It says Christ was God's Son before He was born of Mary.
Then, figure in Isaiah 9:6. The Son is God.
Christ is God.
You can't deal with it. Sad.
way 2 go
Well-known member
so?
the bible dose say
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
my point is the commandments are God's commandments which Jesus claims are his commandments
therefore Jesus is God
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
my point is only God is lord of the sabbath and Jesus claims to be Lord of the sabbath
therefore Jesus is God
way 2 go
Well-known member
why do people who don't believe Jesus is God worship him or do they ?
how do they think that the death of just a man can pay for the sin of the world ?
Mat_4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"
glorydaz
Well-known member
Those who refuse to worship Jesus Christ as Lord and God simply don't know God.
I was addressing the theory that Jesus is Jehovah, there are OTHER verses that refute the "3 persons in one God" notion.
No, it doesn't. NO WHERE in that text does it say Christ was speaking. The quote is Jehovah/YHVH God speaking.BR said:
Again, you are confused.BR said:
Jer 31:31-33 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people:
I would agree, it IS a commmand, and it is worded as a warning.
It is telling those "judges of the earth" that will witness Jesus at his 2nd coming, to Serve Jehovah, AND to "Kiss" His son, lest he be angry.
No, it foretells God's son, before he was born of Mary.
Nope, the text foretells a NAME. That NAME refers to God, like MANY other Hebrew names.M said:
Christ said his Father is "the ONLY true God".M said:
You can't deal with it. Sad.
You didn't read enough.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my words: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.
Jesus spoke Jehovah's words, Just like Jehovah foretold;
Deut 18:17-19 And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which he shall speak in My name, I will require it of him.
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