James White to Debate Bob Enyart on Open Theism

[glorydaz]

The problem with a religious cult, like Calvinism, is that they are unteachable. They can't let go of their demonically inspired doctrines, because it will lead to their house of cards crashing down. They are so scared by the word "change" that to even use that word in the same sentence with God, has them cowering in fear. Being the same and doing the same is not the same. God does not change who He is, but He has changed what He did and what He does. God tasted death and He remembers our sins no more.

Calvinists are not in Christ, and they are as opposed to believing the Gospel as the Pharisees were in believing that Jesus is the Christ.

I honestly can't see where the Gospel enters in for them. It's as if it is nothing but a little side note....tacked on for no good purpose. Nang spews out canned sentences that hold no meaning whatsoever. It reminds me of indoctrination more than anything else.

 

[S0ZO]

Two natures? You don't? What is your definition of "nature"?

Identity. Jesus is God in the flesh. There was no new soul/mind created when Jesus was conceived. Jesus is not double-minded.

Jesus is God, manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16), who was found in the appearance of a man (Philippians 2:8), in a body prepared for Him (Hebrews 10:5), in the likeness of sinful flesh, yet without sin (Romans 8:3; 1 John 3:5), and is the exact representation of the nature of God (Hebrews 1:3)..[/B]

 

[glorydaz]

Identity. Jesus is God in the flesh. There was no new soul/mind created when Jesus was conceived. Jesus is not double-minded.

Jesus is God, manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16), who was found in the appearance of a man (Philippians 2:8), in a body prepared for Him (Hebrews 10:5), in the likeness of sinful flesh, yet without sin (Romans 8:3; 1 John 3:5), and is the exact representation of the nature of God (Hebrews 1:3)..[/B]

Identity? :think:

Well, He was human as well as divine, which means much more than simply the "appearance" of a man in a body prepared for Him. He was made in the likeness of men in every respect......plus being indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead. Col. 2:9

Heb. 1:3 says the "express image of His person" which is not talking about His Divine Nature, but His attributes. IMO. Heb. 2:16-18 speaks of His nature.


He was without sin because He was obedient..."beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". I realize we will disagree on this issue because I don't believe man is born with a sin nature, but a human nature, and I see man is composed of body, soul, and spirit....the soul being the personality and the spirit being the means by which humans communicate with God. Jesus did say, "Not my will but thine be done" which means He did have His own mind and will, but chose to be of one mind with the Father.

 

[S0ZO]

Identity? :think:

Well, He was human as well as divine, which means much more than simply the "appearance" of a man in a body prepared for Him. He was made in the likeness of men in every respect......plus being indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead. Col. 2:9

Heb. 1:3 says the "express image of His person" which is not talking about His Divine Nature, but His attributes. IMO. Heb. 2:16-18 speaks of His nature.


He was without sin because He was obedient..."beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". I realize we will disagree on this issue because I don't believe man is born with a sin nature, but a human nature, and I see man is composed of body, soul, and spirit....the soul being the personality and the spirit being the means by which humans communicate with God. Jesus did say, "Not my will but thine be done" which means He did have His own mind and will, but chose to be of one mind with the Father.

Who is sitting at the right hand of God?

 

[Tambora]

Was God everywhere while in the ark? In the pillar of cloud and fire? Can the flesh of man fully contain God? The ark wasn't everywhere, nor were the pillars of cloud and fire, so you make an interesting point. :idunno:

Which is why one cannot make a blanket statement about God, one way or the other.

God can manifest in several forms of creation.

He also appeared to Abraham and ate food.
He also appeared to Jacob and wrestled with him.
He also appeared as a dove.

All of those manifestations were real. Not just some 'vision'.
They were physical that could be seen, heard, and touched.

It could be argued that these forms of creation were always within God (i.e. of His very being).

 

[glorydaz]

Who is sitting at the right hand of God?

I see that as a term of authority. Jesus returned to His former glory....He is the right hand of God....His Holy Arm, and the first begotten of the dead. So, He is ever more God/man. I certainly do not believe there are two thrones with two persons sitting side by side. They are ONE seated on ONE throne.

 

[S0ZO]

Heb. 1:3 says the "express image of His person" which is not talking about His Divine Nature, but His attributes.

Actually, the word for person is literally nature.

I see man is composed of body, soul, and spirit....the soul being the personality and the spirit being the means by which humans communicate with God.

As do I, but Jesus does not have a soul that did not pre-exist. If that was true, then you either have God abandoning His identity for all of eternity, or the annihilation of the identity of this new man. There is not one person with two minds, wills, natures, sitting at the right hand of God. Jesus spoke of His glory being restored. He was created with a brain, but not two minds.

 

[Nang]

Actually, the word for person is literally nature.

What?

 

[Lighthouse]

Interesting :think:

It's on your new posts, now.

Let me guess...

You're a reprobate Kenoticist. Word of Faith? or other?

Nope. I don't even know what a "Kenoticist" is, and I've always opposed the WoF movement.

God did not change.

Except that he indwelt a body of flesh, which He had not done before. And then He died, which was a major change.

I honestly can't see where the Gospel enters in for them. It's as if it is nothing but a little side note....tacked on for no good purpose. Nang spews out canned sentences that hold no meaning whatsoever. It reminds me of indoctrination more than anything else.

Yup.

Identity? :think:

Well, He was human as well as divine, which means much more than simply the "appearance" of a man in a body prepared for Him. He was made in the likeness of men in every respect......plus being indwelt by the fullness of the Godhead. Col. 2:9

Heb. 1:3 says the "express image of His person" which is not talking about His Divine Nature, but His attributes. IMO. Heb. 2:16-18 speaks of His nature.


He was without sin because He was obedient..."beloved Son in whom I am well pleased". I realize we will disagree on this issue because I don't believe man is born with a sin nature, but a human nature, and I see man is composed of body, soul, and spirit....the soul being the personality and the spirit being the means by which humans communicate with God. Jesus did say, "Not my will but thine be done" which means He did have His own mind and will, but chose to be of one mind with the Father.

The only thing new when He became flesh and dwelt among us was the body of flesh which He indwelt. The spiritual now indwelt the physical. That does not make two natures.

And for AMR, in case he's paying attention, I stand corrected:

Of course, being God, Jesus was in heaven while on earth. The members of the Godhead can never be separated. They are one.

John 3:13 KJV
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.​

 

[Nang]

It's on your new posts, now.


Nope. I don't even know what a "Kenoticist" is, and I've always opposed the WoF movement.


Except that he indwelt a body of flesh, which He had not done before. And then He died, which was a major change.


Yup.




The only thing new when He became flesh and dwelt among us was the body of flesh which He indwelt. The spiritual now indwelt the physical. That does not make two natures.

And for AMR, in case he's paying attention, I stand corrected:

So you deny the hypostatic union that existed in the Incarnation of the Christ of God?

 

[glorydaz]

Which is why one cannot make a blanket statement about God, one way or the other.

God can manifest in several forms of creation.

He also appeared to Abraham and ate food.
He also appeared to Jacob and wrestled with him.
He also appeared as a dove.

All of those manifestations were real. Not just some 'vision'.
They were physical that could be seen, heard, and touched.

It could be argued that these forms of creation were always within God (i.e. of His very being).

Indeed...the Word was with God, and was God. Jesus came out from God. It's all there....I agree and I would say they are all performed by the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the expression of God....the Word, the Glory, the right hand and the holy arm. Basically, our Lord Jesus Christ is the revelation of God. The "physical", if you will. The Father is the source, the Son is the expression, and the Spirit is the application. The sun (source), the light (what we see), and the power applied (dispensing). Triune....body, soul, spirit.

 

[Nang]

Which is why one cannot make a blanket statement about God, one way or the other.

God can manifest in several forms of creation.

He also appeared to Abraham and ate food.
He also appeared to Jacob and wrestled with him.
He also appeared as a dove.

All of those manifestations were real. Not just some 'vision'.
They were physical that could be seen, heard, and touched.

It could be argued that these forms of creation were always within God (i.e. of His very being).

Who "He?"

These were theophanies . . . not manifestations . . . not incarnations.

 

[Dialogos]

Sozo,

You clown.

You probably don’t even know that the heresy you hold to was dealt with in the fourth century.

It’s called Apollinarianism.

And it’s a heresy, and you hold to it, and are spreading it here, you wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Case in point.

Glorydaz asked:

Two natures? You don't? What is your definition of "nature"?

Your completely heretical answer was.

Identity.

:doh:
Moron, Christians believe that Jesus has two natures and is one One Person, one “identity.”

So, if you define “nature” as “identity” then Jesus has two “identities” which is not only an imbecilic absurdity, even for you, but is also heretical.

Then you go ahead and continue to prove that you have nothing to offer when it comes to a discussion among Christians when you say:

Jesus is God in the flesh. There was no new soul/mind created when Jesus was conceived. Jesus is not double-minded.

Meaning, that you don’t believe Jesus possessed a human soul/mind?
:doh:
Not only is that stupid, :sozo:ITS HERESY!!!!!

Its Apollinarianism. Don’t worry, nobody is expecting someone of your mental capacity to remember that.

What you should remember is that it is heresy and for good reason because a human body without a human mind/soul isn't really fully human.
:doh:

Which means the Jesus who you think saved you isn't fully human and therefore isn't the God-Man since men have human souls. Consequently, the Jesus you think saved you isn't the Jesus of the Bible.

 

[glorydaz]

Actually, the word for person is literally nature.

As do I, but Jesus does not have a soul that did not pre-exist. If that was true, then you either have God abandoning His identity for all of eternity, or the annihilation of the identity of this new man. There is not one person with two minds, wills, natures, sitting at the right hand of God. Jesus spoke of His glory being restored. He was created with a brain, but not two minds.

I think Jesus had a brain that included a will, mind, and emotions (which is the soul of man), just as we all do. He chose to do the will of the Father, as we all should be doing. He chose to be of one mind with the Father....as we all should be doing. It was a conscious choice....using that very same "free will" that so many on this site claim man doesn't have. Of course He had a certain advantage over us....being God from the beginning and all. He was born from above from the moment of conception, and we aren't born from above until we hear and respond to the Gospel. I think that's why Paul says He was the Last Adam (second man), the first of many "new creatures".

 

[glorydaz]

Who "He?"

These were theophanies . . . not manifestations . . . not incarnations.

This is a ninny....not a manifestation....not a new creature.

 

[glorydaz]

Sozo,

You clown.

You probably don’t even know that the heresy you hold to was dealt with in the fourth century.

It’s called Apollinarianism.

And it’s a heresy, and you hold to it, and are spreading it here, you wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Case in point.

Glorydaz asked:

Your completely heretical answer was.

:doh:
Moron, Christians believe that Jesus has two natures and is one One Person, one “identity.”

So, if you define “nature” as “identity” then Jesus has two “identities” which is not only an imbecilic absurdity, even for you, but is also heretical.

Then you go ahead and continue to prove that you have nothing to offer when it comes to a discussion among Christians when you say:

Meaning, that you don’t believe Jesus possessed a human soul/mind?
:doh:
Not only is that stupid, :sozo:ITS HERESY!!!!!

Its Apollinarianism. Don’t worry, nobody is expecting someone of your mental capacity to remember that.

What you should remember is that it is heresy and for good reason because a human body without a human mind/soul isn't really fully human.
:doh:

Which means the Jesus who you think saved you isn't fully human and therefore isn't the God-Man since men have human souls. Consequently, the Jesus you think saved you isn't the Jesus of the Bible.

Are you so angry because certain words can have different meanings to different people? Like "change" and "will" and "salvation" and even, dare I say it, "soul"? You realize, I hope, that man not only has a soul but is a soul. If not, perhaps you're in danger of "HERESY". :nono:

 

[S0ZO]

Sozo,

You probably don’t even know that the heresy you hold to was dealt with in the fourth century.

Coming from an ignorant pervert, like you, this means nothing. You don't even understand what you THINK I said. You are just that plain stupid. It's worse than talking to meshak, trying to explain anything to a dolt like you.

It’s called Apollinarianism.

No, it's not. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are just a Satan worshiping little fool with his head up his butt looking for a way out.

Moron, Christians believe that Jesus has two natures and is one One Person, one “identity.”

No, Satanists believe that Jesus has two natures. I do not. Again, just as you do not understand what "death" is, you do not understand what a "nature" is. Jesus is God in the flesh. You don't believe that. You believe that Jesus has two natures, two minds, two wills, and that He is two persons.

Meaning, that you don’t believe Jesus possessed a human soul/mind?
:doh:
Not only is that stupid, :sozo:ITS HERESY!!!!!

It is to you, because your god is Satan. That is why you have a double-minded Jesus who can't decide who he is. the one Jesus died on the cross, and the other Jesus split for heaven. That is what YOU, AMR, and the demons you follow teach and believe.

What you should remember is that it is heresy and for good reason because a human body without a human mind/soul isn't really fully human.

The Jesus of the Bible does not have two natures, two minds, or two wills. Nowhere does the Bible teach that He does. It is a man-made doctrine that was adopted by the demon possessed John Calvin, which you have willingly "chosen" to follow.

The Jesus of the Bible is the One I provided ALL of the verses that define His identity. You have nothing but your demonically inspired traditions.


Your claims of "heresy" are directed at the words of the Apostles. I believe them, not a pervert who worships Satan.

 

[Nang]

The Jesus of the Bible does not have two natures, two minds, or two wills.

Jesus Christ manifested two natures, and a human will and mind, that proved to be totally in accord with the will and mind of His Father in heaven.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that He does. It is a man-made doctrine that was adopted by the demon possessed John Calvin, which you have willingly "chosen" to follow.

Read the Chalcedonian Creed (for once in your life!)

 

[S0ZO]

Jesus Christ manifested two natures, and a human will and mind, that proved to be totally in accord with the will and mind of His Father in heaven.

Heresy, and one of the main reasons why Calvinism is a cult.

The soul is what distinguishes one person from the next. If Jesus has a human soul, then that person never existed until conception. Jesus is eternal God. You cannot have two persons, with two natures, two minds, two wills, etc.

Read the Chalcedonian Creed (for once in your life!)

No thanks, it is not the inspired word of God.

Read the Bible for once in your life.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

All who are interested are well aware of your odd and contrary views of the nature of our Lord, not to mention your inability to sustain your position when challenged:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72555

AMR

I guess a pervert like you, has such a seared conscience, that it phases you not to constantly lie to protect to your fragile ego.

I just exposed your false god, and you have no other recourse than to post something out of context. No surprise there. That is what perverts do.

The facts of your many errors speak for themselves. You were exposed then and are now.

AMR