Like I said, the irrational mind cannot make a distinction between being the same yesterday, today, and forever, from doing the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Before Jesus was manifested on Earth, He was not a baby in the manger. After He was manifested, He was a baby in the manger. The difference between these two states can reasonably be described as a change.
Except for the fact that the bible teaches that Jesus once was not manifested on Earth and then later He was.
Why you flush or not flush determines whether or not there is a change, not the flushing itself. In this case, a change exists.
James white said it wasn't a change because nothing was subtracted from God when He took on flesh.
| If we understand everything coming from God, becoming flesh is well within His character already, such that it is not a change, but a manifestation of Himself. If God makes something, it is not eternal. That is, it doesn't come from some substance co-existing with God. Rather, the thing comes from the being of God in the first place. He spoke the physical reality into existence. As such, any one thing that preoccupies (doesn't constrain) God, is no restriction or change. It is rather God interacting with His creation in a limited way. Because the limited (us) sees 'change' because we are limited and cannot see "all," we make limited assumptions because our own nature cannot see past our restrictions and constrictions but in a very limited manner. Very briefly, this is the difference between concrete sequential (we use limited terms and physically based understandings of and for our universe), and metaphysical thinking (thinking that allows the necessity for the infinite to move beyond finite comprehensions). It is because of this finiteness, that I believe Moses couldn't look upon God and live. Exodus 33:20. We have to embrace all of God's truth regarding the nature of God, including His Son Jesus Christ: Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. This talks of Jesus Christ's immutability. Again, because we finite beings notice 'change' for a lot of very 'finite' reasons, I don't get too frustrated over 'change' language other than if it tramples any truth of scripture. We have to always come back to the fact that we are finite and the infinite has nowhere to move to. It cannot 'change' from being already infinite. Such is an inaccurate understanding of what infinite means. God is relational to us, and so is understood by finite concepts by us (how could it be otherwise?). But, it is very important to understand that what we know of God is limited, by necessity, as finite created beings. It is impossible that we could conceive of God but in a limited manner, else we would be God. So, intuitively, we know that God's ways are not ours. We know that God isn't a man nor thinks like one. We know He is infinite. We know He has never had a beginning. These all come to us by scripture and by logical intuition. |
| John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. Philippians 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, Philippians 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. |
| Exodus 33:18 Moses said, "Please show me your glory." Exodus 33:19 And he said, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The LORD.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live." Exodus 33:22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Exodus 33:23 Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen. |
No change to an aspect of God does not mean no change to God.
We are not talking about changing who a being is -- we are just looking for any kind of change.
Having nothing subtracted is not the same as having nothing change.
Or we can just ignore all this and say that God changed when He came to Earth.
We 'can' ignore that 2+2=4 too, but that doesn't mean 3 is the correct answer. It means we ignored the right one.
Really? You cut open an orange. Did it 'change?' What specifically changed? Did the seeds change? Did the orange juice change? Did the peel stop being a peel? Did the pulp change? You can argue for a negligable change, but it is certainly not 'dumb' to say that the orange didn't change. It is more consistently the same than 'changed' (supposedly).
