Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[ok doser]

condemnation , compassion

Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

hippies like to ignore those parts

 

[glorydaz]

God is the consuming fire (puros), and the aeviternal state of being for the unredeemed is to be in this fire but not in Christ. The fire is the means of God administering mercy.

Are you talking about a refining fire...now that would be God administering mercy, as I see it.

What would be the point of this fire?

So the lost still being the presence (enopion) of God and experiencing the flames of the fire (puros) is indeed not only mercy but forgiveness. But there is nowhere external to themselves for the sins to be set apart, as Christ already bore them on the cross in His physical life and death. So it is the flames alone that administer any separation from the effects of their state of being. The torment is living with their sin instead of it all being upon Christ and resting in Him.

I'm sorry if I seem dense, but if the flames are not only mercy but forgiveness, then it's not actually forgiveness in the true sense of the word, is it? So these people who are in this state, why aren't they able to eat of the tree of life in the ages to come?

Revelation 22:1-3
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:​

 

[Arthur Brain]

condemnation , compassion

Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Ah, the feeding of those hungry, giving drink to those thirsty, clothing the needy? All attributes of compassion. None of which are evident in doctrines that advocate eternal suffering of other people. I would suggest you read the battle royale linked here involving logos X and Pastor Kevin regarding Biblical translations but I doubt you'd be interested.

 

[ok doser]

condemnation , compassion

Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

... None of which are evident in doctrines that advocate eternal suffering of other people....

:doh:

:nono:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ah, the feeding of those hungry, giving drink to those thirsty, clothing the needy? All attributes of compassion.

The wicked don't exhibit those attributes to the needy.

Because they didn't, they didn't do it to Christ.

Therefore...

They will go into eternal punishment.

:idunno:

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

[glorydaz]

lain:

:freak:

:doh:

Dude, you need to sleep it off or something...

:dizzy:

Why would he do that? He has permission to take center stage. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

He's on topic.

Asking if we have empathy is on topic?

Asking the same question about empathy over and over is on topic?

Right. I get it.atrol:

 

[ok doser]

Asking if we have empathy is on topic?

Asking the same question about empathy over and over is on topic?

Right. I get it.atrol:

umm - i started a separate thread so this one wouldn't get sidetracked

and you posted in it


did you forget already?

 

[glorydaz]

Though the unredeemed are not saved as we know salvation, they are “saved” from a greater torment than they will endure; and all because of God’s mercy.

The unredeemed are not “the all”, which is the opposite of what Enscausasui was alleging with Univeralism.

All things under His feet doesn't mean all things?


It seems like satan would have a lot to gloat over if that's the case. :think:

 

[glorydaz]

umm - i started a separate thread so this one wouldn't get sidetracked

and you posted in it


did you forget already?

I did...hoping you'd stay there when you went on this "empathy" tirade. Unfortunately, no one seemed to be buying it over there, either. You'd rather come over here and scold us for not cheering for the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment.

Scold us for not "laughing" about people suffering for eternity.

 

[Arthur Brain]

:doh:

:nono:

You should acquaint yourself with the original texts or read the linked battle royale where Logos X explains how such translations came into being.

Although I'll expect you'll do neither.

 

[ok doser]

You should acquaint yourself with the original texts or read the linked battle royale where Logos X explains how such translations came into being.

Although I'll expect you'll do neither.

make the argument

if you have one

 

[ok doser]

I did...hoping you'd stay there when you went on this "empathy" tirade. Unfortunately, no one seemed to be buying it over there, either. You'd rather come over here and scold us for not cheering for the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment.

Scold us for not "laughing" about people suffering for eternity.

yes glory, that's exactly what i was doing, "scolding" you after my "tirade" :dizzy:

 

[Arthur Brain]

The wicked don't exhibit those attributes to the needy.

Because they didn't, they didn't do it to Christ.

Therefore...

They will go into eternal punishment.

:idunno:

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

Oh please, even the parable of the Good Samaritan kicks that into touch. Have you never witnessed an act of altruism by a stranger?

You think all atheists and agnostics are just selfish hoarders of personal wealth or something?

I've been the recipient of an atheist's charity in my life so knock it off JR.

:AMR:

 

[Arthur Brain]

make the argument

if you have one

Read the link that's now linked for you again.

If you don't then don't complain that all answers aren't provided, even just within logos X first two posts. If you're too lazy to read then don't moan that all of the answers to your queries weren't given.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...nbelievers-Spend-Eternity-in-the-Lake-of-Fire

 

[ok doser]

Read the link that's now linked for you again.

If you don't then don't complain that all answers aren't provided, even just within logos X first two posts. If you're too lazy to read then don't moan that all of the answers to your queries weren't given.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...nbelievers-Spend-Eternity-in-the-Lake-of-Fire

make the argument if you have one

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus answered this:

Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” - Luke 17:3-4 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke17:3-4&version=NKJV

God cannot forgive someone who is unrepentant.

Really? Nothing is impossible with God.



God forgives us when we believe the Gospel of Salvation.

When we turn from unbelief to belief.

 

[glorydaz]

yes glory, that's exactly what i was doing, "scolding" you after my "tirade" :dizzy:

Thank God you have finally confessed your sins. :thumb:

 

[ok doser]

Really? Nothing is impossible with God.



God forgives us when we believe the Gospel of Salvation.

When we turn from unbelief to belief.

does He forgive those who turn from unbelief to belief but remain obstinately unrepentant?

 

[ok doser]

Thank God you have finally confessed your sins. :thumb:

no, thank God He finally made me see my sins through your trolling