Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Arthur Brain]

Existence is the point. Whatever world we exist in...it declares the glory of God. It may be the smell of the ocean. It may be the softness of a mother's hand, the sound of a bird, the wind blowing across a fevered brow, or even the sound of the gravel crunching beneath the wheels of your wheel chair as you're pushed along. It's life.

You really should seek to hone the depth of your being, Artie.

Oh, I could add to it, the wonders of music and colour, the sight of a beautiful woman, the sound of the tide coming in on a beach etc...

The trouble is, as with most things in life there's the flip side. People starving to death in the third world, children, who's experiences in life will be hunger, thirst, weakness and flies crawling across their face and likely death by starvation before 'adulthood'. Families torn apart through war, people born with conditions where life is chronic pain and suffering. People cut down in prime by cancer, kids forced to trudge to find water that will most likely give them disease even when they find it etc... Like nature, life has it's amazing beauty but it also has it's very ugly side and there's little point, at least from my perspective in denying that or downplaying it either.

 

[Arthur Brain]

No, probably something as basic as this, if I understand you correctly....

If you don't believe in God, you expect nothing except to lie in a mouldy grave forever. A nothingness or some other strange figment of your imagination....like flitting through space as energy for eternity.

If you do believe in God, you have a way better hope.

Well, atheism certainly doesn't have much of a selling point but then it's not really trying to sell anything. It's not a view I ascribe to but I can understand why people have strong doubts as to the existence of a god without necessarily going along with it.

 

[Arthur Brain]

God gave us the ability to reason. We each do it as best we're able.

Sure, well, most of us. Some people are born without the capacity for that.

 

[jamie]

Sure, well, most of us. Some people are born without the capacity for that.

The only way to know good and evil is to experience good and evil.

It's called hands-on training.

 

[glorydaz]

Let me ask you a question.

I know God is Just and also Love.

What is the purpose of never ending burning in the lake of fire for non-believers?

This is for you too, JR.


thank you.

Maybe to keep them from coming to heaven and turning heaven into the the hell on earth we see around us today. :devil:


On the other hand, outer darkness doesn't seem too hot, either. :idunno:

 

[glorydaz]

Oh, I could add to it, the wonders of music and colour, the sight of a beautiful woman, the sound of the tide coming in on a beach etc...

The trouble is, as with most things in life there's the flip side. People starving to death in the third world, children, who's experiences in life will be hunger, thirst, weakness and flies crawling across their face and likely death by starvation before 'adulthood'. Families torn apart through war, people born with conditions where life is chronic pain and suffering. People cut down in prime by cancer, kids forced to trudge to find water that will most likely give them disease even when they find it etc... Like nature, life has it's amazing beauty but it also has it's very ugly side and there's little point, at least from my perspective in denying that or downplaying it either.

Sin entered the world a long time ago. I doubt any can downplay the results of that fact.

And the point was? Our ability to reason, wasn't it?

 

[glorydaz]

I am asking this question because it is horrible witnessing to the world. Even secular world is not that cruel. Much less, loving God.

Huh? Not that cruel? Really?

I'd rather burn in hell for all eternity than watch my child being raped and tortured.

At least I'd know the punishment was deserved when it was meted out by our righteous God, instead of some sick pervert's actions against an innocent.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sin entered the world a long time ago. I doubt any can downplay the results of that fact.

And the point was? Our ability to reason, wasn't it?

So, kids starve and die of cancer because of sin? Because of either some literal or allegorical event from centuries ago?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Huh? Not that cruel? Really?

I'd rather burn in hell for all eternity than watch my child being raped and tortured.

At least I'd know the punishment was deserved when it was meted out by our righteous God, instead of some sick pervert's actions against an innocent.

I think her point was that the notion of a loving God burning anyone for eternity is cruel and sick, not that there aren't psychopaths in the world.

 

[rstrats]

JudgeRightly,
re: "If you can use reason to convince me...I will believe you..."


Once you're convinced, it's too late to consciously choose to believe because you already do.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Maybe to keep them from coming to heaven and turning heaven into the the hell on earth we see around us today. :devil:


On the other hand, outer darkness doesn't seem too hot, either. :idunno:

You mean like cold, callous, selfish and unloving attitudes, that type of thing?

 

[glorydaz]

You mean like cold, callous, selfish and unloving attitudes, that type of thing?

Like beauty....it's in the eye of the beholder. Colossians 3:2

 

[glorydaz]

I think her point was that the notion of a loving God burning anyone for eternity is cruel and sick, not that there aren't psychopaths in the world.

I understood her point....and your agreement, but your opinion isn't what matters, is it?

Reaping what you sow is a hard one for the natural man to comprehend, much less agree with.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I understood her point....and your agreement, but your opinion isn't what matters, is it?

Reaping what you sow is a hard one for the natural man to comprehend, much less agree with.

Well, it matters as much or as little as your own, although using reasoning the doctrine of a loving God that creates life and sets up the parameters that a great deal of it is going to suffer through eternity is certainly difficult to comprehend, especially given the eloquent definition of love as described in the bible. Love certainly doesn't inflict anything of the sort.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Like beauty....it's in the eye of the beholder. Colossians 3:2

There's no beauty in a cold, callous and selfish disregard to other people's suffering. Unless, maybe from the view of a person devoid of love. Beauty isn't quite as subjective as that.

 

[meshak]

Meshak, give me the name of one or two persons from any news story. (Don't fret, this will answer your question, I just want to interact with you. �&#56898

what are you asking to do?

 

[meshak]

Huh? Not that cruel? Really?

I'd rather burn in hell for all eternity than watch my child being raped and tortured.

At least I'd know the punishment was deserved when it was meted out by our righteous God, instead of some sick pervert's actions against an innocent.

Can you imagine yourself burning for eternity? I cannot. It is beyond my comprehension.

 

[JudgeRightly]

what are you asking to do?

To show you why there is a hell.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can you imagine yourself burning for eternity? I cannot. It is beyond my comprehension.

Burning? That's describing a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction can only happen (as far as we know) between two physical substances. There is nothing physical about hell.

 

[meshak]

I understood her point....and your agreement, but your opinion isn't what matters, is it?

Reaping what you sow is a hard one for the natural man to comprehend, much less agree with.

The problem is how you read the Bible.

Jesus also says non-believers perish, meaning end. Why do you choose other scriputre which do not harmonize with God's character?