Is the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment biblical or not?

[Tambora]

A loving parent certainly wouldn't abandon their child or close the door permanently

I can think of several reasons to keep one of your children away from the rest of your family.
If one of your sons brutally rapes and murders your wife (his mother) and starts killing your other children, then yes you should boot him and lock him out.
It would not be very loving and just to the father's other family members to let such a cancer remain.

 

[Tambora]

And how would you define that exactly? Simply a matter of not having faith, or the 'right' sort of faith?

It would fall to the right sort of faith.
You can have faith that GOD does not exist, but that sort of faith will not save.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I can think of several reasons to keep one of your children away from the rest of your family.
If one of your sons brutally rapes and murders your wife (his mother) and starts killing your other children, then yes you should boot him and lock him out.
It would not be very loving and just to the father's other family members to let such a cancer remain.

In extreme circumstances then yes, although that really is going to the extreme and hardly really relevant to the point. Short of having a murdering psychopath running amok in your family would you turn your back on any of your children? Just to preempt what I think might have been another point going on here (If I'm mistaken my apologies) but is this also to do with how 'paradise' might be corrupted if 'unsaved' people are also allowed in? Do you think the average agnostic, atheist, those of other beliefs like freelight on here bear Christians ill will?

It would fall to the right sort of faith.
You can have faith that GOD does not exist, but that sort of faith will not save.

If it is actually a God of love then do you not think the fallibility of His creations is taken into account and an eternity of torment runs the absolute contrary to love? Thomas doubted and required proof, was he condemned for it?

 

[Tambora]

In extreme circumstances then yes,

If there is a 'yes' to any of it (and we both admit there is), then the notion that a loving and just father must always keep and support all his children, no matter what, is moot.
We don't expect that of any father, nor should we.

 

[Arthur Brain]

If there is a 'yes' to any of it (and we both admit there is), then the notion that a loving and just father must always keep and support all his children, no matter what, is moot.
We don't expect that of any father, nor should we.

Nor do I but if your argument rests on extremes then it's really not that much of one. Short of the very high unlikelihood that one of your progeny is a murdering, raping psychopath then would you permanently turn your back on any of your children?

 

[Nihilo]

And how would you define that exactly? Simply a matter of not having faith, or the 'right' sort of faith?

Precisely the right sort of faith, faith in the "crowning" and "central" truth of the one Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV), that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen (Mt28:6KJV Mk16:6KJV Lk24:6KJV ; cf. Ro10:9KJV 1Co15:14KJV).

 

[Arthur Brain]

Precisely the right sort of faith, faith in the "crowning" and "central" truth of the one Christian faith (Eph4:5KJV), that the Lord Jesus Christ is risen (Mt28:6KJV Mk16:6KJV Lk24:6KJV ; cf. Ro10:9KJV 1Co15:14KJV).

So, anyone who's agnostic and probably in fact, most people aren't going to have that particular belief. Did Jesus come into the world to 'save' present and future 'believers' only?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Does everyone have the ability to look up at the night sky or even just the world around them?

The universe declares the glory of God whether a person is paying attention or not.

No, some people are born blind, in some cases blind and deaf. Others suffer from conditions that severely impact on their senses, in some cases ones that stunt their emotional and social awareness too. You really should get a better argument here.

 

[Nihilo]

So, anyone who's agnostic and probably in fact, most people aren't going to have that particular belief.

Looks like about 5 out of 7 of us don't believe that He is risen, that's true.

Did Jesus come into the world to 'save' present and future 'believers' only?

He is risen. You go from there. It begins there. All questions are answered from there; all of them. But it begins there, and can't begin anywhere else, not even at "God exists." Not even at that. The Lord Jesus Christ is risen.

 

[glorydaz]

Looks like about 5 out of 7 of us don't believe that He is risen, that's true.
He is risen. You go from there. It begins there. All questions are answered from there; all of them. But it begins there, and can't begin anywhere else, not even at "God exists." Not even at that. The Lord Jesus Christ is risen.

Jesus is truly a fisher of men. :thumb:

I'm thinking that must be the one that "caught you". It's a good one, and, of course, extremely important. Crucial even. But, it can actually begin somewhere else....for someone else. The one that "caught me" was John 1:1. When that one hit my heart, I was forever owned.

 

[glorydaz]

No, some people are born blind, in some cases blind and deaf. Others suffer from conditions that severely impact on their senses, in some cases ones that stunt their emotional and social awareness too. You really should get a better argument here.

Existence is the point. Whatever world we exist in...it declares the glory of God. It may be the smell of the ocean. It may be the softness of a mother's hand, the sound of a bird, the wind blowing across a fevered brow, or even the sound of the gravel crunching beneath the wheels of your wheel chair as you're pushed along. It's life.

You really should seek to hone the depth of your being, Artie.

 

[glorydaz]

And how would you define that exactly? Simply a matter of not having faith, or the 'right' sort of faith?

No, probably something as basic as this, if I understand you correctly....

If you don't believe in God, you expect nothing except to lie in a mouldy grave forever. A nothingness or some other strange figment of your imagination....like flitting through space as energy for eternity.

If you do believe in God, you have a way better hope.

 

[glorydaz]

So it's not quite that straightforward then is it? There's those who insist that it's word for word literal verbatim, others who find allegory at least in parts and others who regard it as an allegorical account. I think there's pretty obviously a lot of allegory in Genesis.

God gave us the ability to reason. We each do it as best we're able.

 

[Nihilo]

Jesus is truly a fisher of men. :thumb:

I'm thinking that must be the one that "caught you". It's a good one, and, of course, extremely important. Crucial even. But, it can actually begin somewhere else....for someone else. The one that "caught me" was John 1:1. When that one hit my heart, I was forever owned.

Then I guess I'm even more of a "Paul person" than I thought, because that's all Paul. :chuckle:

 

[rstrats]

glorydaz,
re: "God gave us the ability to reason."

But not the ability to consciously choose to believe things.

 

[JudgeRightly]

glorydaz,
re: "God gave us the ability to reason."

But not the ability to consciously choose to believe things.

If you can use reason to convince me to believe that logical contradictions don't actually contradict, then I will believe you, and not the laws of logic.

 

[meshak]

God gave us the ability to reason. We each do it as best we're able.

Let me ask you a question.

I know God is Just and also Love.

What is the purpose of never ending burning in the lake of fire for non-believers?

This is for you too, JR.


thank you.

 

[meshak]

I am asking this question because it is horrible witnessing to the world. Even secular world is not that cruel. Much less, loving God.

 

[rstrats]

JudgeRightly,
re: "What are the requirements?"

There are many, but a few would be having a belief in a supreme being and the things pertaining to His Son, keeping His commandments, repentence, doing the will of the Father, being baptized, and forgiveness of others.



re: " Why did they not meet them?"

You would have to ask them.



re: "Did Jesus say anything about how to get to heaven?"

Yes, several times.



re: "Does everyone have the ability to look up at the night sky or even just the world around them?"

I would say that most do.



re: "Have you ever heard of the law of contradiction? Answer 1 contradicts the question, therefore it cannot be a valid answer. therefore, answer 2 is the only logical option."

How does option 1 contradict the question?



re: "Then what do you mean?"

Obviously if someone hasn't heard of something, they couldn't very well make decisions about it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I know God is Just and also Love.
What is the purpose of never ending burning in the lake of fire for non-believers?

I am asking this question because it is horrible witnessing to the world. Even secular world is not that cruel. Much less, loving God.

Meshak, give me the name of one or two persons from any news story. (Don't fret, this will answer your question, I just want to interact with you. )