glorydaz
Well-known member
Either that or He “lied” or led them on for a very good reason. He seemed “very clear” at other times as well, but not exactly crystal clear..
Postponed? Or planned out and misunderstood?
Is Prophecy Being Fulfilled in the Dispensation of Grace?
- Thread starter Right Divider
- Start date
Postponed? Or planned out and misunderstood?
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus was not lying. He cannot do that.
Jesus was completely clear with that statement.
God's hidden agenda has intervened.
glorydaz
Well-known member
If His hidden agenda intervened, why didn’t Paul know about it?
Especially since that “hidden agenda“ involved Paul.
What is a lie? Didn‘t you watch that video Clete put up?
You should because the answer is there.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Just wanted to add what Clete noted with his video.
“The error your making here is in the belief that it is always a sin to tell someone an untruth. It is not. I very strongly recommend you watch the following video. It's part of a series of videos on the subject and it is very very informative...”
Right Divider
Body part
I have no idea what you're talking about.
The hidden agenda was the dispensation of the grace of God given to Paul.
So of course Paul knew about it.
Eph 3:8-12 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: (3:10) To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, (3:11) According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: (3:12) In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Jesus was not lying.
glorydaz
Well-known member
So again. What hidden agenda?
More likely Matt. 10:23 is talking about the temple being destroyed in 70 AD. He returned in judgment then, didn’t He?
I thought you said you understood that we aren't Israel. ??
The Body of Christ will not see a single day of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble.
The rest of what you said there has already been refuted without response.
You REALLY need to read through some of that 88 Reason book! I'm telling ya, he got all 88 reasons wrong, one of which was this one you just gave.
The creation of a secular political entity is not the blooming of the fig tree. Jews have no more faith in Jesus Christ today than they had two millennia ago. If they had, they'd put their trust in His power, boot out the foolish Muslim God haters and rebuild God's temple. No! Israel is far away from anything that remotely looks like blooming with faith. Isreal today remains the fig tree without fruit that God cut down about a year after it was 'fertilized' with the Holy Spirit at their Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) (See Luke 13:6-9).
But!
When we, His Body, are raptured out and God turns again to Israel and His Spirit stirs the hearts of His people again, now that is going bring a bumper crop of figs, although not without a lot of pain and suffering as they are purged through the tribulation period.
Right Divider
Body part
I take it that you don't read my posts very carefully. Post #105 sentence #2
That's just you trying to read your ideas into scripture. It makes no sense at all.
In that passage, Jesus is encouraging them to persevere in their mission to reach all of Israel with their message. But then you say that in the middle of that encouragement, Jesus tells them that He's going to destroy the temple anyway.
Nope. How many "returns" do you think that there are?
Luke 19:12 (AKJV/PCE)
(19:12) He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
None of Jesus' returns are secret.Rev 1:7 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Right Divider
Body part
List: 17 Reasons Israel’s Prophecies are not Being Fulfilled in this Dispensation
We live in a mystery dispensation where the operation of God on the Earth is significantly different than it was during the dispensation of his prophetic purpose to Israel. Below are reasons that Israel’s prophecies concerning the coming judgment and Earthly kingdom will not be fulfilled during this dispensation.As better Bible teachers have said, to resolve the confusion of the “signs of the times” we must understand first the “times of the signs”. It is not until the time of this mystery dispensation is complete that the time of prophetic signs and fulfillment will continue according to God’s word.
Download this List: PDF
- The mystery was kept secret
If the mystery of Christ was kept secret during every prophetic utterance in since the world began, then prophecy cannot be what is happening during the mystery dispensation (Acts 3:21, Romans 16:25). What God hath separated let no man put together. - What is foretold is not kept secret
The end time events of judgment, kingdom, and prophetic fulfillment were foretold. If those prophesied days actually speak of days during the mystery dispensation then these days were spoken about before. This is contrary to the scripture when it speaks what is hidden and revealed. - God’s gospel is different
The gospel of the grace of God is free justification with no accompanying works. The kingdom gospel pertains to the new covenant which has required works of law written on their heart. - God’s operation is different
Some prophecies are about unbelievers, yet others require God’s intervention. The way he intervenes in prophecy is according to the promises and covenants. Yet, today God is not operating with humanity according to a covenants but by his grace. - God’s people are different
The church in prophecy was is the obedient nation of Israel. Today, the people of God are made up of Israel and Gentiles. There is neither Jew nor Greek. These are mutually exclusive. - God’s representation is different
Revelation and prophetic books talk about the priests of the Lord being the promised people of God. A characteristic of this dispensation is that there are no priests of the Lord. The church today as members of his body was not prophesied. - God’s purpose is different
The prophetic purpose was to set up God’s dominion on the Earth. That is not God’s purpose in this dispensation which is to build a new creature to inhabit heavenly dominions. - Israel is fallen in this dispensation
Romans 9-11 describe Israel’s spiritual fall. Prophetic fulfillment requires that Israel be given the position of spiritual and political prominence. - Salvation is sent to the Gentiles
Acts 28:28 tells plainly that salvation is sent to the Gentiles. Yet, according to prophecy the Jewish nation would be the evangelists of God’s salvation. - We are delivered from wrath to come
Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 that we are delivered from wrath to come. The prophesied wrath on the Earth was a result of the covenant relationship between God and his people. - We are children of the day, not the night
1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 says that those in the “night” time are looking for signs. We are not in that time, but are rather children of the “day” time in history. We are not appointed to the coming judgment. - God is not imputing sins
The coming judgment on the earth is justified by the imputation of trespasses on the world. However, at this time God is not imputing trespasses to anyone (2 Cor 5:19). - It is the dispensation of God’s grace
The only events remaining on God’s prophetic calendar refer to his declaration of war upon the world that declared war on him 2000 years ago. You can not offer terms of peace in the dispensation of grace while at the same time declaring war. - Prophetic signs are global
Some think the prophecies contain only specific prophecies such as the mark of the beast or the antichrist, when actually they include the whole earth. The worldwide nature of some of the prophecies indicates that the prophesies would directly affect any church that was on Earth. - Prophecy is on a timetable
This hidden dispensation has no prophetic timetable associated with it. Paul declares the beginning of his message as being “out of due time”. Prophetic fulfillment is foretold to the month and year. - Prophecy is for Israel
Prophecy was a privilege to the nation Israel who required signs (1 Cor 1:22). There is no Israel today. It will be Israel’s prophets that will be sent to witness to the world during that time. - Israel today is not God’s Israel
Most point to 1948 creation of the state of Israel as a fulfillment of prophecy. However, these people who were gathered together by geopolitical forces reject the Messiah. Though they could many choose not to be saved by God’s grace without the law. Indeed, that message remains an offense to them. They are not the remnant of Israel that began at Pentecost.
This is an incomplete list of reasons why Israel’s prophecy is not being fulfilled today, but it emphasizes the doctrine of the difference between what was prophesied and what was kept secret (mystery).
Prophetic fulfillment will happen as literally as the Bible declares it to be. Many tell stories of prophetic fulfillment and use exaggerated language to ascribe Bible proof texts. This is not proper Bible application and should be avoided.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Saying it does not make it so. You should know that.
We aren’t Israel, but we aren’t blind to what has been going on with Israel. If you can’t see prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak then I can’t convince you otherwise.
Israel is the fig tree, and the first thing that had to happen was the Jews returning to their land. That is not just some pretend Israel. They are dry bones, not yet filled with the Spirit. But, You can think what you want.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I take it you don’t read my posts very carefully. In the middle of that sending out of the disciples, he let them know that the time was short. He knew that because He understood He would be coming back to execute judgment on Jerusalem. He knew it would be a horrible time and letting them know they needed to hurry because time was short….only 35 years approximately.
that’s the only way His words make sense.
He didn’t need to return in the flesh to execute judgement on the temple. I didn’t suggest that as a return.
Who sent the Romans to destroy the temple? No just a coincidence surely.
Are you actually trying to suggest that if they didn't hurry, it would take them 35 years to go through all the cities of Israel?
Take a look at these images and tell us seriously that you are, taking into consideration that they were instructed to just keep moving if their message was rejected, and that they had twelve people to spread the message.
Saying it doesn't make it so, GD.
There's another way.
Jesus meant EXACTLY what he said, that they would not be able to make it through all the cities before his return, that he intended to return within seven years. But the circumstances changed, and it became apparent that He could not return because of it.
Go read Jeremiah 18. It should give you an idea as to why.
The judgement of Jerusalem will be a physical judgement, with Christ returning on a white horse.
THAT NEVER HAPPENED!
His name was Vespasian.
He ordered his son, Titus, to lay siege to Jerusalem.
It wasn't Christ sending judgement.
It was men acting out their own wills.
Destroying the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD was NOT part of God's plan for Jerusalem.
As for why it WAS destroyed, but decades after I presume it would have been had the Time of Jacob's Trouble continued, I can only imagine that it has something to do with how God can bring about events in history, as though it were a ball of yarn that was being unraveled, and worked into a masterpiece, and the "destruction of the Temple" was one of the strings that was in the process of being weaved, but because circumstances changed, while the weaving stopped, that thread had already been started to be weaved in, and couldn't be removed, but events continued to where it all came unraveled.
In other words, God was going to accelerate the temple's destruction to occur before He returned, but due to the change in circumstances, it happened later.
Not that it's some sort of settled unchangeable event that must happen (as per a deterministic view), but because, I think, it's destruction by men's hands was inevitable, because men hate God, and what better way to thumb one's nose at God than to destroy His temple in His nation's capital city.