Is eternal suffering literal?

[Ps82]

you said:"This is why I don't think mankind suffers forever in the Lake of Fire. He is gone". yet the Bible tells us this is for an eternity...The Soul is immortal while the body is mortal. at the time of the second resurrection, those in Hell/Hades will be reunited with the bodies left on earth and judged in the White Throne Judgement. When they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, their bodies will die for all time and the souls will reside in the lake of fire and Brimstone Forever.

I'm just not convinced that human life and soul/body will exist after being tossed in the LOF. I've heard a lot of explanations but I base my theories on a few things I've learned.
1.) God gives life to humanity in measures. First God added a MIST of water to the ground before THE LORD form a body for Adam. A mist is a small measure and water is often a reference to things of the spiritual nature. Next God added a BREATH Into that body and that's the exact point when mankind became a completed living soul. What I see at these events is that a measure of life was given the image formed for mankind and then an additional life was added to it. You know a breath is made up of water and air/wind ... both of these terms are used in scripture to figuratively refer to things of a spiritual nature. IOW, things from God.

So what was that mere measure of life called a breath which was associated with the living body? I say this: It was male/female who had already been created/established in Gen 1:26-27. I've decided this beginning-stage of human life is where male/female are alive but invisible without bodies within God's Spirit. They were given their first command at that point. [Gen.1:28] which they were not yet prepared to fulfill. I believe humanity from the start was not created eternal as seemingly were the angels, but created with a life that must be SUSTAINED. Our mortal bodies have always required daily sustenance [water] to continue and I believe so has our spiritual nature. It was not until Gen. 2 that the living body formed by the the hands of the LORD and the living male female nature were joined to form a completed soul visible and living within the Garden.

Next point, remember Christ and the Woman at the well ... He told her he had WATER/life to give her from which she would never thirst again. Well, there you go. He had another measure of LIFE to give her - an eternal life. Only those who receive the gift of eternal life will be sustained [I suggest bodily and spiritually] in the kingdom of our Lord. This thought opened a door for my pondering what happens to the temporary life/The MIST first given to the body formed by the LORD and the mere breath of those who don't believe Jesus? I suggest those measures of life at some point go back into God from which they came.

Another reason I believe as I do about the future of man's lost temporary souls is this:
Christ said a prayer found in John 3:34-36. Watch carefully.
34 For HE whom God hath sent [Jesus] speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Do you see how this verse means NOTHING of the Spirit was withheld from the Christ, but this is not true for humans. Humans only had a mist and breath of life and it had to be replenished/sustained or we would thirst/perish. Jesus had all he needed to be raised bodily and spiritually as our risen Lord. We only have life as long as God sustains it no matter where God chooses to place our spirits after physical death. Remember the rich man in hell who begged for a drop of water because he thirsted? If I am correct about symbolism, then God did not replenish his bodily life after he died and he suffered because of it. Saints are given a heavenly body waiting for them after they die but seems not so lost souls. My conclusion: They will be resurrected and joined with their bodies at their time of final judgement... and the Lake of Fire.

Watch how the additional measure of eternal life is not awarded to the lost ... they only have what God has sustained and granted until that end point. This is about Jesus but it mentions the lost.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given ALL THINGS into his [Jesus's] hand.
36 He [any mortal person] that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he [any mortal] that believeth not the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE: but the wrath of God abideth on/upon him.

Does this open the door to the potential of God taking the measures of life he shared with humanity away at some point. Right now I'm guessing yes.

So why do people still exist after death in "the barns of God/spiritual realms where he places them after physical death" waiting for the end to come? Well, that's another topic? Hint: It has to do with the first command God gave to spiritual male/female in Genesis 1:28a.

 

[Ps82]

All thought stops at death. God already judged sin-The wages of sin is death. There is no life in death.

There are two deaths for humanity. Sadly while lost souls are in hell/Haydes they live and must suffer until the second death. Just like the Saints must ask: "How long do we have to wait ..." So are lost souls waiting. But the second death is another matter.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can you give us a scripture reference that says the soul is immortal?
Here's one that says the opposite:
Ezekiel 18:4 KJV — Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

First of all...

"There was a plane crash the other day, all souls on board were lost."

"His wife passed away the other day. Poor soul."

Soul in that verse is a synecdoche of "person," just like in the above example sentences. It's not saying that the soul itself is what dies. It's saying that the person (the soul) who sins shall die.

This is accurately represented in the NKJV, which uses "who" instead of "that" in "the soul who sins shall die."

Second, the verse is poetry, as far as I can tell, so shouldn't be taken woodenly literally anyways.

And third, of course, is that the context is talking about punishing children for the crimes of their fathers. It's not talking about the metaphysical.

 

[Keiw1]

Because you say so?

Bible truth.

 

[Keiw1]

There's a difference. I'm using scripture, rightly or wrongly, to support my assertion. You're rejecting what scripture says to support yours.

I used scriptures. You reject them.

 

[Keiw1]

There are two deaths for humanity. Sadly while lost souls are in hell/Haydes they live and must suffer until the second death. Just like the Saints must ask: "How long do we have to wait ..." So are lost souls waiting. But the second death is another matte

There are two deaths for humanity. Sadly while lost souls are in hell/Haydes they live and must suffer until the second death. Just like the Saints must ask: "How long do we have to wait ..." So are lost souls waiting. But the second death is another matter.

The Hebrew word-Sheol=The Greek word-Hades, both translate -the grave. Jesus was in Hades-3 days( the grave) you obviously cannot possibly think God made him suffer for 3 days? Your religions are filled with untruth.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Bible truth.

Prove it. Use the Bible to support your claim.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I used scriptures. You reject them.

The last time you used scripture was yesterday morning, John 3:16, which no one here rejects.

 

[Derf]

Can you give us a scripture reference that says the soul is immortal?

First of all...

"There was a plane crash the other day, all souls on board were lost."

"His wife passed away the other day. Poor soul."

Soul in that verse is a synecdoche of "person," just like in the above example sentences. It's not saying that the soul itself is what dies. It's saying that the person (the soul) who sins shall die.

This is accurately represented in the NKJV, which uses "who" instead of "that" in "the soul who sins shall die."

Second, the verse is poetry, as far as I can tell, so shouldn't be taken woodenly literally anyways.

And third, of course, is that the context is talking about punishing children for the crimes of their fathers. It's not talking about the metaphysical.

Yes, that's a definition of "soul" that allows for mortality of the soul, so you've shown my point to be possible. Can you show any passage in the bible that says the opposite--that the soul is immortal?

 

[Derf]

I used scriptures. You reject them.

Here's what you said about the scriptures when you started this thread:

Only blind guides teach it as literal.

In that statement, you admit that the Bible contains statements about eternal torment, but you say it isn't literal.

You repeated your assertion in a later post:

There is no tormenting of anyone. Blind guides teach that as literal.

So you admit that scriptures teach eternal torment, but you are unwilling to take the scripture literally. Why? Because you have your own moral code that you judge God by, where you say it is sadistic what God's literal word says He will do.

The true God is love, not a sadist who would condemn one to suffer eternally

 

[Bladerunner]

I'm just not convinced that human life and soul/body will exist after being tossed in the LOF. I've heard a lot of explanations but I base my theories on a few things I've learned.
1.) God gives life to humanity in measures. First God added a MIST of water to the ground before THE LORD form a body for Adam. A mist is a small measure and water is often a reference to things of the spiritual nature. Next God added a BREATH Into that body and that's the exact point when mankind became a completed living soul. What I see at these events is that a measure of life was given the image formed for mankind and then an additional life was added to it. You know a breath is made up of water and air/wind ... both of these terms are used in scripture to figuratively refer to things of a spiritual nature. IOW, things from God.

So what was that mere measure of life called a breath which was associated with the living body? I say this: It was male/female who had already been created/established in Gen 1:26-27. I've decided this beginning-stage of human life is where male/female are alive but invisible without bodies within God's Spirit. They were given their first command at that point. [Gen.1:28] which they were not yet prepared to fulfill. I believe humanity from the start was not created eternal as seemingly were the angels, but created with a life that must be SUSTAINED. Our mortal bodies have always required daily sustenance [water] to continue and I believe so has our spiritual nature. It was not until Gen. 2 that the living body formed by the the hands of the LORD and the living male female nature were joined to form a completed soul visible and living within the Garden.

Next point, remember Christ and the Woman at the well ... He told her he had WATER/life to give her from which she would never thirst again. Well, there you go. He had another measure of LIFE to give her - an eternal life. Only those who receive the gift of eternal life will be sustained [I suggest bodily and spiritually] in the kingdom of our Lord. This thought opened a door for my pondering what happens to the temporary life/The MIST first given to the body formed by the LORD and the mere breath of those who don't believe Jesus? I suggest those measures of life at some point go back into God from which they came.

Another reason I believe as I do about the future of man's lost temporary souls is this:
Christ said a prayer found in John 3:34-36. Watch carefully.
34 For HE whom God hath sent [Jesus] speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Do you see how this verse means NOTHING of the Spirit was withheld from the Christ, but this is not true for humans. Humans only had a mist and breath of life and it had to be replenished/sustained or we would thirst/perish. Jesus had all he needed to be raised bodily and spiritually as our risen Lord. We only have life as long as God sustains it no matter where God chooses to place our spirits after physical death. Remember the rich man in hell who begged for a drop of water because he thirsted? If I am correct about symbolism, then God did not replenish his bodily life after he died and he suffered because of it. Saints are given a heavenly body waiting for them after they die but seems not so lost souls. My conclusion: They will be resurrected and joined with their bodies at their time of final judgement... and the Lake of Fire.

Watch how the additional measure of eternal life is not awarded to the lost ... they only have what God has sustained and granted until that end point. This is about Jesus but it mentions the lost.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given ALL THINGS into his [Jesus's] hand.
36 He [any mortal person] that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he [any mortal] that believeth not the Son SHALL NOT SEE LIFE: but the wrath of God abideth on/upon him.

Does this open the door to the potential of God taking the measures of life he shared with humanity away at some point. Right now I'm guessing yes.

So why do people still exist after death in "the barns of God/spiritual realms where he places them after physical death" waiting for the end to come? Well, that's another topic? Hint: It has to do with the first command God gave to spiritual male/female in Genesis 1:28a.

I agree with you in that God gives life to humanity in measures. He creates us in the womb and gives us the breath of Life (same as Adam’s and Eve’s) at the moment of birth...However, if one looks at Genesis 1 as a prologue chapter and the exact events of the six days are told to us in chapter 2..In 2:5, we are told: “And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground” and in 2:6 we are told: “But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.” The mist was obvious for the water that one would need in the ground before the seeds and plants were put into the earth. Verse 7 is the beginning of another paragraph and really has nothing to do with the making of man out of the dust of the ground. I don’t think God is restricted to having to put water into something before he can make something out of it...especially when He created all at one time. You will be better off reading these three chapters literally…..

 

[Keiw1]

Here's what you said about the scriptures when you started this thread:

In that statement, you admit that the Bible contains statements about eternal torment, but you say it isn't literal.

You repeated your assertion in a later post:

So you admit that scriptures teach eternal torment, but you are unwilling to take the scripture literally. Why? Because you have your own moral code that you judge God by, where you say it is sadistic what God's literal word says He will do.

Yes symbolism. Gods justice scales prove it-They are in perfect balance. He taught all perfect justice= an eye for an eye--his standards he does not go against. His justice scales are in perfect balance.

Your false teachers scales teaching a literal eternal suffering= 70 to100 years of unrepented existence on one side----trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of punishment suffering.---Do you see any balance there? =No--its an eye for a gazillion eyes--thus not the true God behind that literal teaching.

The symbolism= As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those who died the second death miss each day. miss each day of Gods love, it never ends, thus likened to be an eternal suffering---those traded 70-100 years of a sinful existence and will miss out on trillions x trillions x trillions, etc,etc of never ending years of a life on a paradise earth, never sick, not aging like now, never without. All one human family whose motives on every matter is ruled by love not profit.

A very lousy trade.

 

[Derf]

Yes symbolism. Gods justice scales prove it-They are in perfect balance. He taught all perfect justice= an eye for an eye--his standards he does not go against. His justice scales are in perfect balance.

Your false teachers scales teaching a literal eternal suffering= 70 to100 years of unrepented existence on one side----trillions x trillions x trillions, etc of never ending years of punishment suffering.---Do you see any balance there? =No--its an eye for a gazillion eyes--thus not the true God behind that literal teaching.

The symbolism= As each new day dawns in Gods kingdom, those who died the second death miss each day. miss each day of Gods love, it never ends, thus likened to be an eternal suffering---those traded 70-100 years of a sinful existence and will miss out on trillions x trillions x trillions, etc,etc of never ending years of a life on a paradise earth, never sick, not aging like now, never without. All one human family whose motives on every matter is ruled by love not profit.

A very lousy trade.

The issue that you're still not willing to address is that you have made your own moral code and are judging God by it. You've decided that the literal reading of the torment passages is impossible because you've defined them as sadistic. And now you're saying God's word, if not reinterpreted according to your standard, is "lousy". But if the price of rejecting the eternal Son of God, who became human and died for us to save us from death, is eternal suffering who are you to say it is unjust? Why does your standard of justice trump God's?

And as long as we get to make up our own standards of crime and punishment? Why can't I do exactly the same and declare (without any biblical warrant, as you have done) that annihilation is just as sadistic as eternal punishment?

 

[Ps82]

The Hebrew word-Sheol=The Greek word-Hades, both translate -the grave. Jesus was in Hades-3 days( the grave) you obviously cannot possibly think God made him suffer for 3 days? Your religions are filled with untruth.

Well, first of all, God experienced pain and suffering when he, being the only true God, came as the Savior [Isaiah 43:11] through his being crucified on the cross as his own begotten Son.

Second, I'm not sure the risen Lord, who was quickened by the Spirit of God, would have suffered where ever he went after his physical death. I believe his body was in the grave, but consider these things:

Jesus, who was the WORD of God, who is God and was with God before the world was went to a non earthly place to preach to living beings, who could hear of the good news and perhaps it would somehow make a difference. Why else would he have gone there.

Now, where or what was that place where dead beings from before the days of the flood still lived? My KJV called it another term besides hell,grave,Hades. PRISON. This leaves us with lots of questions: Is this a storage realm where God puts people who have not yet been judged and harvested? If you study Gen. 1 and do a little reading beyond the lines, you will notice God in the act of separating realms within his eternal spiritual nature for his own purposes. Might God have created all sorts of storage places knowing he would use them if he waited until it was 'time to end all things' ?

Check out I Peter 3:18-20 [shorted for brevity]
18b [Christ ... put to death ... but quickened by the Spirit; [The Spirit] by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. [The spirits alive in what KJV called prison] which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah.

IOW there were living souls in that particular unearthly place called prison. A request: Can you show me for sure that the prison for dead humans in the OT times before the resurrection of Christ is the same place as what we call burning in hell in the NT? I'm interested in what you might find for I am a student of Scripture just like you.

Right now I know the NT realms which have been mentioned by these storage terms: Bosom of Abraham, Hell of torment, the Pit [for angels], and the place Christ went to prepare for all those saints choosing to believe and follow him. So many questions about this place called Prison.
What happened to those living spirits who heard Christ preach?
Are they still there?
Did they choose to believe and follow Christ after he preached? ...
Is God's confinement Prison the same as a human prison?

The Strong's concordance does help some ... from 5437 5438 to 5439 [ border; environ x on every side; inclose; a turn of affairs, evirons], but it does not distinguish between an earthly prison and the super-natural prison. I think we have to figure that out from context. It does not equate Prison to a place called Hell, Hades, or the grave.

 

[Ps82]

you [Ps82] said:"This is why I don't think mankind suffers forever in the Lake of Fire. He is gone". [Bladerunner said] yet the Bible tells us this is for an eternity...The Soul is immortal while the body is mortal. at the time of the second resurrection, those in Hell/Hades will be reunited with the bodies left on earth and judged in the White Throne Judgement. When they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, their bodies willl die for all time and the souls will reside in the lake of fire and Brimstone Forever.

LOL, I always say A LOT! Hard to know where to start with a question. Sorry. Let's see if I can do better.

I will do my best to explain another point which may clear up how I look at life and death and spirit body and soul. I'm a little out of the box; so, I hope you will understand my ideas.

1.) "This is why I [P82] don't think mankind suffers forever in the Lake of Fire. He is gone."
Bladerunner said: yet the Bible tells us this is for an eternity.
Reply: I believe all these references to the LOF regard the time after the 1,000 year reign:
Matt. 25:41 ... depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Two points -First, it is the fire that is everlasting. Fire is a noun and everlasting is an adjective describing the fire. Second, this ever burning fire was designed for the devil and his angels. Scripture doesn't say it was designed for mankind, who were destined to have their spirits attached to the cursed ground. You see, God did not curse Adam and Woman but cursed the ground from which their bodies were formed... and He did it ... FOR MAN'S SAKE. Wow! Somehow that was going to be beneficial to humans and I think I know in what ways, but that's another topic.

Revelation 21:8 and Rev. 20:15 sum up what sort of humans go there: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire along with the devil, his angels ... and the false prophet and the beast. I'm yet to determine if they are demons possessing human bodies or what. They are still a bit of a mystery to me and I've never studied that topic.

Rev. 20:14 And death an hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death [for mankind.]
Well, we all understand the first death ... mortal bodily life not replenished and is put in a grave. Since Christ the spirit of man goes one of two places: to be with Him or to a place of torment... both waiting on God's time to end things and make things new. So, in the end there will be no more deaths for humanity and no place of torment kept for them as we understand things now.

Rev. 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. From this I at least know the devil will forever be tormented...

Conclusion: God cursed the ground. I say the term ground refers to the elements from which God created the earth. And the elements he used to form a body for mankind. Satan tempts. Adam and Woman sin. God reacts. He told Adam and Satan that they would partake of those ground elements for the rest of their lives. Well, wow! Both attached by the spoken word of God to the same elements. Then, God cursed those elements ... and did it for man's sake. For man's good! Somehow I don't think it was for Satan's good. That cursed brought the process leading to man's first death, but humanity and Satan continue to wait and wait, having children, being tempted by Satan and his demons, sinning, and repenting ... etc. Waiting till God is ready to end all things... which comes at the second death.

Now if you do a study on the cursed ground, you will find - so goes the cursed dust [lifeless cursed elements] so goes Satan and mankind. That is how mankind and the angels wind up in the lake of fire together. That place which was designed for rebellious angels. They both partake of the ground for the rest of their lives and so goes the cursed ground so goes man and Satan and I assume his demons. This is the second death for lost humanity ... but the first for angelic beings. It is a place of eternal fire made for the angels where they will be tormented day and night.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul AND body in hell.
Now, I won't quibble about the term hell at this time ... but the key point is that God is able to create spiritual beings, form them a body and breath into them thus making them a living soul. And He is the one who can destroy that body and that living spiritual entity. At this time I happen to think that happens at the LOF event and the time of heaven and earth being made new.



Last point: Since Christ I believe the spirit of the 'saved saints' will already have a body [robes of white] waiting on them when they die their first death but that may not be the end of its glorification after God makes every thing new.

 

[Bladerunner]

LOL, I always say A LOT! Hard to know where to start with a question. Sorry. Let's see if I can do better.

I will do my best to explain another point which may clear up how I look at life and death and spirit body and soul. I'm a little out of the box; so, I hope you will understand my ideas.

1.) "This is why I [P82] don't think mankind suffers forever in the Lake of Fire. He is gone."
Bladerunner said: yet the Bible tells us this is for an eternity.
Reply: I believe all these references to the LOF regard the time after the 1,000 year reign:
Matt. 25:41 ... depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Two points -First, it is the fire that is everlasting. Fire is a noun and everlasting is an adjective describing the fire. Second, this ever burning fire was designed for the devil and his angels. Scripture doesn't say it was designed for mankind, who were destined to have their spirits attached to the cursed ground. You see, God did not curse Adam and Woman but cursed the ground from which their bodies were formed... and He did it ... FOR MAN'S SAKE. Wow! Somehow that was going to be beneficial to humans and I think I know in what ways, but that's another topic.

Revelation 21:8 and Rev. 20:15 sum up what sort of humans go there: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire along with the devil, his angels ... and the false prophet and the beast. I'm yet to determine if they are demons possessing human bodies or what. They are still a bit of a mystery to me and I've never studied that topic.

Rev. 20:14 And death an hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death [for mankind.]
Well, we all understand the first death ... mortal bodily life not replenished and is put in a grave. Since Christ the spirit of man goes one of two places: to be with Him or to a place of torment... both waiting on God's time to end things and make things new. So, in the end there will be no more deaths for humanity and no place of torment kept for them as we understand things now.

Rev. 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. From this I at least know the devil will forever be tormented...

Conclusion: God cursed the ground. I say the term ground refers to the elements from which God created the earth. And the elements he used to form a body for mankind. Satan tempts. Adam and Woman sin. God reacts. He told Adam and Satan that they would partake of those ground elements for the rest of their lives. Well, wow! Both attached by the spoken word of God to the same elements. Then, God cursed those elements ... and did it for man's sake. For man's good! Somehow I don't think it was for Satan's good. That cursed brought the process leading to man's first death, but humanity and Satan continue to wait and wait, having children, being tempted by Satan and his demons, sinning, and repenting ... etc. Waiting till God is ready to end all things... which comes at the second death.

Now if you do a study on the cursed ground, you will find - so goes the cursed dust [lifeless cursed elements] so goes Satan and mankind. That is how mankind and the angels wind up in the lake of fire together. That place which was designed for rebellious angels. They both partake of the ground for the rest of their lives and so goes the cursed ground so goes man and Satan and I assume his demons. This is the second death for lost humanity ... but the first for angelic beings. It is a place of eternal fire made for the angels where they will be tormented day and night.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul AND body in hell.
Now, I won't quibble about the term hell at this time ... but the key point is that God is able to create spiritual beings, form them a body and breath into them thus making them a living soul. And He is the one who can destroy that body and that living spiritual entity. At this time I happen to think that happens at the LOF event and the time of heaven and earth being made new.



Last point: Since Christ I believe the spirit of the 'saved saints' will already have a body [robes of white] waiting on them when they die their first death but that may not be the end of its glorification after God makes every thing new.

LOL, I always say A LOT! Hard to know where to start with a question. Sorry. Let's see if I can do better.

I will do my best to explain another point which may clear up how I look at life and death and spirit body and soul. I'm a little out of the box; so, I hope you will understand my ideas.

1.) "This is why I [P82] don't think mankind suffers forever in the Lake of Fire. He is gone."
Bladerunner said: yet the Bible tells us this is for an eternity.
Reply: I believe all these references to the LOF regard the time after the 1,000 year reign:
Matt. 25:41 ... depart from me, y15e cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Two points -First, it is the fire that is everlasting. Fire is a noun and everlasting is an adjective describing the fire. Second, this ever burning fire was designed for the devil and his angels. Scripture doesn't say it was designed for mankind, who were destined to have their spirits attached to the cursed ground. You see, God did not curse Adam and Woman but cursed the ground from which their bodies were formed... and He did it ... FOR MAN'S SAKE. Wow! Somehow that was going to be beneficial to humans and I think I know in what ways, but that's another topic.



In Gen 3:14-19..”And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: v15..And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. V16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. V17. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; v18..Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; v19..In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” These are judgements of GOD against Satan, Adam and Eve….Make no mistake, the curse was upon them all including you , me and all of mankind.

Revelation 21:8 and Rev. 20:15 sum up what sort of humans go there: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire along with the devil, his angels ... and the false prophet and the beast. I'm yet to determine if they are demons possessing human bodies or what. They are still a bit of a mystery to me and I've never studied that topic.



Are you speaking of Satan and His Angels….they are all created beings….the demons are souls of those from the days of Noah, who roam the earth until it is their time to be cast into the Lake of Fire...we see this in Mar 5:6-15

Rev. 20:14 And death an hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death [for mankind.]
Well, we all understand the first death ... mortal bodily life not replenished and is put in a grave. Since Christ the spirit of man goes one of two places: to be with Him or to a place of torment... both waiting on God's time to end things and make things new. So, in the end there will be no more deaths for humanity and no place of torment kept for them as we understand things now.

Agree

Rev. 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. From this I at least know the devil will forever be tormented…



As will any of his followers will spend eternity (forever and forever without end and away from GOD!)

Conclusion: God cursed the ground. I say the term ground refers to the elements from which God created the earth. And the elements he used to form a body for mankind. Satan tempts. Adam and Woman sin. God reacts. He told Adam and Satan that they would partake of those ground elements for the rest of their lives. Well, wow! Both attached by the spoken word of God to the same elements. Then, God cursed those elements ... and did it for man's sake. For man's good! Somehow I don't think it was for Satan's good. That cursed brought the process leading to man's first death, but humanity and Satan continue to wait and wait, having children, being tempted by Satan and his demons, sinning, and repenting ... etc. Waiting till God is ready to end all things... which comes at the second death.

Now if you do a study on the cursed ground, you will find - so goes the cursed dust [lifeless cursed elements] so goes Satan and mankind. That is how mankind and the angels wind up in the lake of fire together. That place which was designed for rebellious angels. They both partake of the ground for the rest of their lives and so goes the cursed ground so goes man and Satan and I assume his demons. This is the second death for lost humanity ... but the first for angelic beings. It is a place of eternal fire made for the angels where they will be tormented day and night.



If you read it lterally, He cursed them ...When He told Satan to “upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:” Is the “Dust” considered to be curse because of this? And Adam received His Judgement, God did curse the ground….yet listen to what it says...”Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;” Shalt not eat of it is referring to the Tree of Knowledge. In addition, Yes the Ground is curse in that it can no longer be the beautiful place it was in Eden. Thus man life is connected to the ground as it always has been since Adam was created out of it….After the last Battle (Armageddon), Jesus will again set the order of the world back in place...for all is fallen including the earth itself.

.


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul AND body in hell.
Now, I won't quibble about the term hell at this time ... but the key point is that God is able to create spiritual beings, form them a body and breath into them thus making them a living soul. And He is the one who can destroy that body and that living spiritual entity. At this time I happen to think that happens at the LOF event and the time of heaven and earth being made new.



LOF?????Please spell this acronym out…..I am getting on in age…..thanks… When those whom are thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, has ended, the Old earth will be burnt away and a New Earth (without oceans) will be created. For those who lived through the Millennium will also live on the New Earth as the Everlasting Gospel will not have been changed…..Life on earth at this time will be of all believers. NOT ONE will sin against God.



Last point: Since Christ I believe the spirit of the 'saved saints' will already have a body [robes of white] waiting on them when they die their first death but that may not be the end of its glorification after God makes every thing new.

The Rapture will remove all true believers from the earth at one time. These will be those from the resurrected dead and those that are still alive when this event happens...During Daniel’s 70th week. All believers will have to be martyred (most having their heads removed) to show they are faithful to Jesus Christ..The Days of Grace ended with the Rapture. These people will be resurrected to be reunited with their souls “under the Altar” (Rev 6:6-11). They too will wear white robes and carry palms in their hands.

 

[Ps82]

LOL, I always say A LOT! Hard to know where to start with a question. Sorry. Let's see if I can do better.

I will do my best to explain another point which may clear up how I look at life and death and spirit body and soul. I'm a little out of the box; so, I hope you will understand my ideas.

1.) "This is why I [P82] don't think mankind suffers forever in the Lake of Fire. He is gone."
Bladerunner said: yet the Bible tells us this is for an eternity.
Reply: I believe all these references to the LOF regard the time after the 1,000 year reign:
Matt. 25:41 ... depart from me, y15e cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Two points -First, it is the fire that is everlasting. Fire is a noun and everlasting is an adjective describing the fire. Second, this ever burning fire was designed for the devil and his angels. Scripture doesn't say it was designed for mankind, who were destined to have their spirits attached to the cursed ground. You see, God did not curse Adam and Woman but cursed the ground from which their bodies were formed... and He did it ... FOR MAN'S SAKE. Wow! Somehow that was going to be beneficial to humans and I think I know in what ways, but that's another topic.



In Gen 3:14-19..”And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: v15..And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. V16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. V17. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; v18..Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; v19..In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” These are judgements of GOD against Satan, Adam and Eve….Make no mistake, the curse was upon them all including you , me and all of mankind.

Revelation 21:8 and Rev. 20:15 sum up what sort of humans go there: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire along with the devil, his angels ... and the false prophet and the beast. I'm yet to determine if they are demons possessing human bodies or what. They are still a bit of a mystery to me and I've never studied that topic.



Are you speaking of Satan and His Angels….they are all created beings….the demons are souls of those from the days of Noah, who roam the earth until it is their time to be cast into the Lake of Fire...we see this in Mar 5:6-15

Rev. 20:14 And death an hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death [for mankind.]
Well, we all understand the first death ... mortal bodily life not replenished and is put in a grave. Since Christ the spirit of man goes one of two places: to be with Him or to a place of torment... both waiting on God's time to end things and make things new. So, in the end there will be no more deaths for humanity and no place of torment kept for them as we understand things now.

Agree

Rev. 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. From this I at least know the devil will forever be tormented…



As will any of his followers will spend eternity (forever and forever without end and away from GOD!)

Conclusion: God cursed the ground. I say the term ground refers to the elements from which God created the earth. And the elements he used to form a body for mankind. Satan tempts. Adam and Woman sin. God reacts. He told Adam and Satan that they would partake of those ground elements for the rest of their lives. Well, wow! Both attached by the spoken word of God to the same elements. Then, God cursed those elements ... and did it for man's sake. For man's good! Somehow I don't think it was for Satan's good. That cursed brought the process leading to man's first death, but humanity and Satan continue to wait and wait, having children, being tempted by Satan and his demons, sinning, and repenting ... etc. Waiting till God is ready to end all things... which comes at the second death.

Now if you do a study on the cursed ground, you will find - so goes the cursed dust [lifeless cursed elements] so goes Satan and mankind. That is how mankind and the angels wind up in the lake of fire together. That place which was designed for rebellious angels. They both partake of the ground for the rest of their lives and so goes the cursed ground so goes man and Satan and I assume his demons. This is the second death for lost humanity ... but the first for angelic beings. It is a place of eternal fire made for the angels where they will be tormented day and night.



If you read it lterally, He cursed them ...When He told Satan to “upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:” Is the “Dust” considered to be curse because of this? And Adam received His Judgement, God did curse the ground….yet listen to what it says...”Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;” Shalt not eat of it is referring to the Tree of Knowledge. In addition, Yes the Ground is curse in that it can no longer be the beautiful place it was in Eden. Thus man life is connected to the ground as it always has been since Adam was created out of it….After the last Battle (Armageddon), Jesus will again set the order of the world back in place...for all is fallen including the earth itself.

.


Matthew 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul AND body in hell.
Now, I won't quibble about the term hell at this time ... but the key point is that God is able to create spiritual beings, form them a body and breath into them thus making them a living soul. And He is the one who can destroy that body and that living spiritual entity. At this time I happen to think that happens at the LOF event and the time of heaven and earth being made new.



LOF?????Please spell this acronym out…..I am getting on in age…..thanks… When those whom are thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, has ended, the Old earth will be burnt away and a New Earth (without oceans) will be created. For those who lived through the Millennium will also live on the New Earth as the Everlasting Gospel will not have been changed…..Life on earth at this time will be of all believers. NOT ONE will sin against God.



Last point: Since Christ I believe the spirit of the 'saved saints' will already have a body [robes of white] waiting on them when they die their first death but that may not be the end of its glorification after God makes every thing new.

The Rapture will remove all true believers from the earth at one time. These will be those from the resurrected dead and those that are still alive when this event happens...During Daniel’s 70th week. All believers will have to be martyred (most having their heads removed) to show they are faithful to Jesus Christ..The Days of Grace ended with the Rapture. These people will be resurrected to be reunited with their souls “under the Altar” (Rev 6:6-11). They too will wear white robes and carry palms in their hands.

NEW REPLY BEGINS HERE:
Seems we agree and disagree. Pretty typical of Bible discussions.
First about In Gen 3:14-19..”And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

I do figure at the time of the second death for humanity and the first death for Satan, he and his angelic followers will face eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire. That is what death is like for them. There will be an [adjective] eternal [noun] fire as scripture says and angelic being will suffer eternally.

v15..And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. V16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. V17. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,

I totally agree with that, due to man's rebellion to gain knowledge, which they thought they needed, and the resulting curse upon the ground from which man's body was made - all man's suffering began.

...and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; v18..Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; v19..In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

This is my reaction to the information here: God created man's body out of the elements of which the earth consisted and for a reason ... and it turns out that cursing those elements gave the LORD a chance to do something good, IOW, FOR man's sake. We are told that from dust man's body came and to dust it shall return. Now, when I grasped what that meant, it opened my eyes to possibilities. Man's body and dust seemed to be a key to understanding bigger things.

Bladerunner said: these are judgements of GOD against Satan, Adam and Eve….Make no mistake, the curse was upon them all including you , me and all of mankind.

I certainly agree, but do you see where man would partake of the cursed ground for the rest of his days ... That means at some point after physical death man could be separated from his association with his mortal body a spirit of sorts, but if a person is not saved they won't get that saintly robe of white. Well, during Genesis 2 God said Satan was more cursed than the grass-eaters in the world for he would partake of the dust of the dry ground for the rest of his days. Now, mankind only partakes of the cursed dust as long as they reject their Savior. The Saved will be given a body made without hands ... robes of white ... awaiting them in heavenly places. Lost mankind may remain associated with the cursed dust AND Satan has been given free range to partake of that dust for the rest of his life. Haven't you ever wondered why Satan argued with an angel of the Lord about the possession of the body of Moses? For what reason would he even want or think he had a right to Moses's body? My answer: God had given him the right to posses the cursed dust back in Genesis. If the angel had said okay, Satan's prize would have been the unique soul of Moses... a man whom God loved as a friend. In other words so goes the cursed ground so goes the soul with it. See where I'm coming from?

Bladerunner said: Are you speaking of Satan and His Angels….they are all created beings….the demons are souls of those from the days of Noah, who roam the earth until it is their time to be cast into the Lake of Fire...we see this in Mar 5:6-15
I'm not sure where you got this idea. Interesting. Would like to see your scripture. To me it seems that where ever those souls from the days of Moses were placed in their supernatural realm, Jesus went there to share truth with them so they could live out their days within that suffering place differently. I don't know if that was what we today call hell or some other place of the storage of life. I don't think they had yet gone to the LOFire. I realized from Genesis one God spent time forming realms of separation. That does not mean God chopped up his spiritual essence into compartments but he merely establish rules necessary to separate things and beings from each other. Most of us grasp this example of how heaven and earth are separated and men can only seen within heaven when God allows. I can't enter heaven yet because of rule # 1: I am still partaking of my cursed mortal flesh at this time. Why couldn't God have created other realms with other limitations and for his future purposes?

Bladerunner concluded:
Rev. 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. From this I at least know the devil will forever be tormented…

As will any of his followers will spend eternity (forever and forever without end and away from GOD!)

I agree that Satan and Angels will suffer eternally in the LOF prepared for them from the beginning. You know one third of the angels had already rebelled with Lucifer. Satan will be left there with man's dust. God is going to make the world new and get rid of death and hell. Immortality will have been ushered in and the bodies of saved souls will have been glorified according to the works done during their mortal life-time. Now where was the life of mortal men before they became a living soul called Adam. [def. unique personalities given a body with life in them] Where was that life before it was allocated? Ans. With or in God. And I believe that is where the life given to the completed soul will return. God is life and the giver of life. Fear him who can destroy the body and the soul.

I shared Matthew 28 and Bladerunner replied:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul AND body in hell.
Now, I won't quibble about the term hell at this time ... but the key point is that God is able to create spiritual beings, form them a body and breath into them thus making them a living soul. And He is the one who can destroy that body and that living spiritual entity. At this time I happen to think that happens at the LOF event and the time of heaven and earth being made new.

LOF?????Please spell this acronym out…..I am getting on in age…..thanks… When those whom are thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, has ended, the Old earth will be burnt away and a New Earth (without oceans) will be created. For those who lived through the Millennium will also live on the New Earth as the Everlasting Gospel will not have been changed…..Life on earth at this time will be of all believers. NOT ONE will sin against God.

I'm not young either. LOF is Lake of Fire and if you ever see LOL it means I'm laughing - not at you ... but rather thought you said something humorous or maybe I'm laughing at myself.
I agree with what you wrote above. God will shake away the cursed elements [dust] of the ground/world elements and things will be perfected. However, at this endtime renewal of the earth, I'm not sure there will be no oceans and such ... for I look at the mention of sea differently in some cases. Have you ever heard the ole phrase "the sea of humanity?" There will be no more mortals in this place designed for us saved souls but I'm sort of hoping for oceans. Our unique personality with a glorified immortal new body will be enjoying immortality. What will it be like for people like you and who love to discuss God's word when we understand everything. LOL

Prayers this is organized in away to easily follower. Amen It wasn't LOL. Had to edit.

 

[Bladerunner]

NEW REPLY BEGINS HERE:
Seems we agree and disagree. Pretty typical of Bible discussions.
First about In Gen 3:14-19..”And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

I do figure at the time of the second death for humanity and the first death for Satan, he and his angelic followers will face eternal suffering in the Lake of Fire. That is what death is like for them. There will be an [adjective] eternal [noun] fire as scripture says and angelic being will suffer eternally.

v15..And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. V16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. V17. And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife,

I totally agree with that, due to man's rebellion to gain knowledge, which they thought they needed, and the resulting curse upon the ground from which man's body was made - all man's suffering began.

...and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; v18..Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; v19..In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

This is my reaction to the information here: God created man's body out of the elements of which the earth consisted and for a reason ... and it turns out that cursing those elements gave the LORD a chance to do something good, IOW, FOR man's sake. We are told that from dust man's body came and to dust it shall return. Now, when I grasped what that meant, it opened my eyes to possibilities. Man's body and dust seemed to be a key to understanding bigger things.

Bladerunner said: these are judgements of GOD against Satan, Adam and Eve….Make no mistake, the curse was upon them all including you , me and all of mankind.

I certainly agree, but do you see where man would partake of the cursed ground for the rest of his days ... That means at some point after physical death man could be separated from his association with his mortal body a spirit of sorts, but if a person is not saved they won't get that saintly robe of white. Well, during Genesis 2 God said Satan was more cursed than the grass-eaters in the world for he would partake of the dust of the dry ground for the rest of his days. Now, mankind only partakes of the cursed dust as long as they reject their Savior. The Saved will be given a body made without hands ... robes of white ... awaiting them in heavenly places. Lost mankind may remain associated with the cursed dust AND Satan has been given free range to partake of that dust for the rest of his life. Haven't you ever wondered why Satan argued with an angel of the Lord about the possession of the body of Moses? For what reason would he even want or think he had a right to Moses's body? My answer: God had given him the right to posses the cursed dust back in Genesis. If the angel had said okay, Satan's prize would have been the unique soul of Moses... a man whom God loved as a friend. In other words so goes the cursed ground so goes the soul with it. See where I'm coming from?

Bladerunner said: Are you speaking of Satan and His Angels….they are all created beings….the demons are souls of those from the days of Noah, who roam the earth until it is their time to be cast into the Lake of Fire...we see this in Mar 5:6-15
I'm not sure where you got this idea. Interesting. Would like to see your scripture. To me it seems that where ever those souls from the days of Moses were placed in their supernatural realm, Jesus went there to share truth with them so they could live out their days within that suffering place differently. I don't know if that was what we today call hell or some other place of the storage of life. I don't think they had yet gone to the LOFire. I realized from Genesis one God spent time forming realms of separation. That does not mean God chopped up his spiritual essence into compartments but he merely establish rules necessary to separate things and beings from each other. Most of us grasp this example of how heaven and earth are separated and men can only seen within heaven when God allows. I can't enter heaven yet because of rule # 1: I am still partaking of my cursed mortal flesh at this time. Why couldn't God have created other realms with other limitations and for his future purposes?

Bladerunner concluded:
Rev. 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet are,and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. From this I at least know the devil will forever be tormented…

As will any of his followers will spend eternity (forever and forever without end and away from GOD!)

I agree that Satan and Angels will suffer eternally in the LOF prepared for them from the beginning. You know one third of the angels had already rebelled with Lucifer. Satan will be left there with man's dust. God is going to make the world new and get rid of death and hell. Immortality will have been ushered in and the bodies of saved souls will have been glorified according to the works done during their mortal life-time. Now where was the life of mortal men before they became a living soul called Adam. [def. unique personalities given a body with life in them] Where was that life before it was allocated? Ans. With or in God. And I believe that is where the life given to the completed soul will return. God is life and the giver of life. Fear him who can destroy the body and the soul.

I shared Matthew 28 and Bladerunner replied:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul; but rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul AND body in hell.
Now, I won't quibble about the term hell at this time ... but the key point is that God is able to create spiritual beings, form them a body and breath into them thus making them a living soul. And He is the one who can destroy that body and that living spiritual entity. At this time I happen to think that happens at the LOF event and the time of heaven and earth being made new.

LOF?????Please spell this acronym out…..I am getting on in age…..thanks… When those whom are thrown into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, has ended, the Old earth will be burnt away and a New Earth (without oceans) will be created. For those who lived through the Millennium will also live on the New Earth as the Everlasting Gospel will not have been changed…..Life on earth at this time will be of all believers. NOT ONE will sin against God.

I'm not young either. LOF is Lake of Fire and if you ever see LOL it means I'm laughing - not at you ... but rather thought you said something humorous or maybe I'm laughing at myself.
I agree with what you wrote above. God will shake away the cursed elements [dust] of the ground/world elements and things will be perfected. However, at this endtime renewal of the earth, I'm not sure there will be no oceans and such ... for I look at the mention of sea differently in some cases. Have you ever heard the ole phrase "the sea of humanity?" There will be no more mortals in this place designed for us saved souls but I'm sort of hoping for oceans. Our unique personality with a glorified immortal new body will be enjoying immortality. What will it be like for people like you and who love to discuss God's word when we understand everything. LOL

Prayers this is organized in away to easily follower. Amen It wasn't LOL. Had to edit.

thanks for the conversation.

 

[Derf]

Well, first of all, God experienced pain and suffering when he, being the only true God, came as the Savior [Isaiah 43:11] through his being crucified on the cross as his own begotten Son.

Second, I'm not sure the risen Lord, who was quickened by the Spirit of God, would have suffered where ever he went after his physical death. I believe his body

The bible says "He" was buried, not "His body" was buried

was in the grave, but consider these things:

Jesus, who was the WORD of God, who is God and was with God before the world was went to a non earthly place to preach to living beings, who could hear of the good news and perhaps it would somehow make a difference. Why else would he have gone there.

Why do you say it was a non earthly place? Jesus went to Hades. Hades is sometimes translated as "grave". Graves are the epitome of earthly.

Now, where or what was that place where dead beings from before the days of the flood still lived? My KJV called it another term besides hell,grave,Hades. PRISON. This leaves us with lots of questions: Is this a storage realm where God puts people

People? It doesn't say "people". It says "spirits". It doesn't even say "spirits of", just spirits. If spirits are always spirits, then these are likely demons, and they are specifically related to the time frame before the flood. Why didn't Christ preach to any other spirits, like from the time of Babel, or the time of Nineveh, or the Egyptians who enslaved the Hebrews?

who have not yet been judged and harvested? If you study Gen. 1 and do a little reading beyond the lines, you will notice God in the act of separating realms within his eternal spiritual nature for his own purposes. Might God have created all sorts of storage places knowing he would use them if he waited until it was 'time to end all things' ?

Check out I Peter 3:18-20 [shorted for brevity]
18b [Christ ... put to death ... but quickened by the Spirit; [The Spirit] by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison. [The spirits alive in what KJV called prison] which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah.

There's no clear indication that Jesus did this while dead. It could have been before or after, or it could have been that His resurrection is what speaks to the spirits in prison, not a verbal speaking. I'm not sure how to understand this passage, but it is not at all clear that this passage is talking about souls of men in Hades that are hearing the gospel. There are too many things you have to add to it to get that out of it.

IOW there were living souls

"Spirits".

in that particular unearthly place called prison. A request: Can you show me for sure that the prison for dead humans in the OT times before the resurrection of Christ is the same place as what we call burning in hell in the NT? I'm interested in what you might find for I am a student of Scripture just like you.

I agree that the OT prison for the dead was probably not a burning hell. Rather it seems like it was the grave, and to be released from that prison requires resurrection...of the man, not just the body.

Right now I know the NT realms which have been mentioned by these storage terms: Bosom of Abraham, Hell of torment, the Pit [for angels], and the place Christ went to prepare for all those saints choosing to believe and follow him. So many questions about this place called Prison.
What happened to those living spirits who heard Christ preach?
Are they still there?
Did they choose to believe and follow Christ after he preached? ...
Is God's confinement Prison the same as a human prison?

The Strong's concordance does help some ... from 5437 5438 to 5439 [ border; environ x on every side; inclose; a turn of affairs, evirons], but it does not distinguish between an earthly prison and the super-natural prison. I think we have to figure that out from context. It does not equate Prison to a place called Hell, Hades, or the grave.

If it does not distinguish, then we need to be careful not to assume some distinction between "prison" and "grave".

 

[Right Divider]

The bible says "He" was buried, not "His body" was buried

• Where? Please quote the scripture so that we can check it out.
• Confirmation bias perhaps?
• What do you think was "buried"? His soul also?

The Bible says that Jesus spoke, but it does not say that His lips moved. Perhaps He was performing ventriloquism while on earth.

1Cor 15:3-8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(15:3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (15:4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (15:5) And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: (15:6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (15:7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. (15:8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.​

Do you think that it was something other than His body that Paul is referring to?

Please give some valid support for your idea that any of that refers to something other than His body.