way 2 go
Well-known member
body soul and spirit that's 3For the person, who is made of 2 things:
dust and breath of life, according to Genesis.
is Genesis the only book in the bible or can we use other books too
we are talking about our spirit returning to God and still existing which is all you can get from that versePerhaps. But the context seems to be immediate, or very close to it.
what did "a god" look like ?I don't. Rather, the scripture seems to indicate there WERE angels (plural), called "elohim" by the witch. @way 2 go was the one who said no angels.
and what does it say before that
[12] And when the woman saw Samuel,
denial of the obvious
(I Samuel 28:11-14) [11] Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up to thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. [12] And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have thou deceived me? For thou are Saul. [13] And the king said to her, Be not afraid, for what do thou see? And the woman said to Saul, I see a god coming up out of the earth. [14] And he said to her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a robe. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he bowed with his face to the ground, and did obeisance.
you say Jesus lied and Abraham does not existNo, it says that Abraham saw Christ's day. You have to insert the "was born" part, and then you have to make the scripture "imply" something. Implications is where we have to start speculating. My speculation is just as valid as yours at that point.
(Luke 16:23) And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
so you're going with Jesus lied and Abraham didn't see JesusNot according to Hebrews, which says he say it afar off. That's not "distance" but "time", imo.
(John 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and He saw and was glad.
immortality speaks of the body which is changed in the raptureIn other words, immortality doesn't start until the rapture. So why do you say it starts earlier?
spirit can and does continue on with out the body
(II Corinthians 5:8) then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord.
wrongSame thing. Paul doesn't say, "Comfort one another by saying our loved ones are already with Jesus in heaven," but "Comfort one another by saying that our loved ones will be with Jesus forever after the resurrection."
(Luke 23:43) And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.
Moses was in spirit form and we know that because he is not the 1st resurrected ,Jesus isI agree. @way 2 go's point was that Elijah and Moses were both in spirit form on the Mt of Transfiguration. So if Moses was a spirit because he died, then why was Elijah a spirit, since he never died.
Lazarus was resurrected but died again if Moses was resurrected then Jesus murdered him or Moses is the 1st resurrected.
new physical body ,non fleshI agree. Although I don't know what it will be like to be immediately changed from mortal to immortal. Is it like death???
(I Corinthians 15:50) And I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
I don't know what form Elijah was , Moses was spirit for reasons stated above ,I agree, therefore @way 2 go needs to explain how Elijah got to be a spirit.
no evidence Moses and Elijah were in shock as Peter was , indicating they existed before they appearedClearly? Why do you say that? There's no indication that Moses and Elijah were any less corporeal than Jesus was at the time.
and were taken, like spirits
(Matthew 17:8) And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus alone
debunkedTrue. But if Samuel can be called up from the grave and presented to Saul in some form that he recognized, which wasn't ever called a "spirit", so could Moses, who also wasn't ever called a spirit. A temporary reconstruction of his body, perhaps?
the woman saw Samuel first and Saul asked what he looked like indicating she could see something Saul could not
Samuel coming up could only be by spirit
(I Samuel 28:15) And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up?
no , we don't agreeAgreed.
Agreed.
Samuel spirit dressed like he used to dress and Saul recognized Samuel.I'm not discounting the possibility. But that assumes the spirit is a shadowy representation of the flesh. This is Greek mythology kind of stuff. Where in scripture is that discussed clearly? It isn't. And as we have learned from discussions about Open Theism, we don't like it when Greek ideas trump scripture.
(I Samuel 28:14) And he said to her, What is his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and he bowed his face to the ground, and prostrated himself.
Or the idea of them exists. They haven't been forgotten by God.
in the second death everyone still existsOnly if you already accept the idea of the immortal soul, which is possibly contrary to what God created. That's why I call it a preconception, or presupposition. Those things regularly get us in trouble.
and are permanently with no chance for repentance , separated from God.
you don't understand what death is .
what triggered Adam & Eves death, answer, eating and how long did eating take answer , minutes
when did they feel the effect answer that day , when were their eyes opened, that day
when was the 1st time God looked for them, that day, when did they hide themselves, that day
when were they afraid of God, that day
but want me to believe they didn't die that day because on or in or is it in or on , don't care as it makes no difference
and if all you have is on or in or where a comma goes in "today you will be with me in paradise"
then you have nothing
death happened on the day they ate from the tree ,spiritual death ,separation from God , like the second death