If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If its just love, why shouldnt incest be ok?
- Thread starter Angel4Truth
- Start date
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Let me break it down
Only in consummating the marriage is infertile sex valid. It ties into 'becoming one flesh', which validate the marriage much like circumcision marked the tribes of Abraham. It's more of a rite, really.
Whole bunch of special pleading going on here.
:yawn: Association[Lumps me in with alinger: CathOlic :freak:] Whole bunch of special pleading going on here.
theophilus
Well-known member
No.
Those appellations have been distinguished by theologians.
Moral Law
Exodus 20:1 20 Then God spoke all these words, saying,
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who [e]stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Ritual Law
Exodus 21:12 “Whoever strikes a man so that he dies shall be put to death. 13 But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint for you a place to which he may flee.
14 But if a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning, you shall take him from my altar, that he may die.
15 “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death.
16 “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found sin possession of him, shall be put to death.
17 “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.
18 “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed,
19 then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.
20 “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.
21 But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the uslave is his money.
22 “When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and vhe shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm,4 then you shall pay xlife for life, 24 yeye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
26 “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye. 27 If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.
28 “When an ox gores a man or a woman to death, the zox shall be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten, but the owner of the ox shall not be liable. 29 But if the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has been warned but has not kept it in, and it kills a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned, and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If aa ransom is imposed on him, then vhe shall give for the redemption of his life whatever is imposed on him. 31 If it gores a man’s son or daughter, he shall be dealt with according to this same rule. 32 If the ox gores a slave, male or female, the owner shall give to their master thirty shekels 5 of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
33 “When a man opens a pit, or when a man digs a pit and does not cover it, and an ox or a donkey falls into it,
34 the owner of the pit shall make restoration. He shall give money to its owner, and the dead beast shall be his.
35 “When one man’s ox butts another’s, so that it dies, then they shall sell the live ox and share its price, and the dead beast also they shall share. 36 Or if it is known that the ox has been accustomed to gore in the past, and its owner has not kept it in, he shall repay ox for ox, and the dead beast shall be his.
Leviticus - Ceremonial Laws and the Laws for Worship
I. Laws on sacrifice (1:1–7:38)
A. Instructions for the laity on bringing offerings (1:1–6:7)
1–5. The types of offering: burnt, cereal, peace, purification, reparation (or sin) offerings (ch. 1–5)
B. Instructions for the priests (6:1–7:38)
1–6. The various offerings, with the addition of the priests' cereal offering (6:1–7:36)
7. Summary (7:37–38)
II. Institution of the priesthood (8:1–10:20)
A. Ordination of Aaron and his sons (ch. 8)
B. Aaron makes the first sacrifices (ch. 9)
C. Judgement on Nadab and Abihu (ch. 10)
III. Uncleanliness and its treatment (11:1–15:33)
A. Unclean animals (ch. 11)
B. Uncleanliness caused by childbirth (ch. 12)
C. Unclean diseases (ch. 13)
D. Cleansing of diseases (ch. 14)
E. Unclean discharges (ch. 15)
IV. Day of Atonement: purification of the tabernacle from the effects of uncleanliness and sin (ch. 16)
V. Prescriptions for practical holiness (the Holiness Code, chs. 17–26)
A. Sacrifice and food (ch. 17)
B. Sexual behavior (ch. 18)
C. Neighborliness (ch.19)
D. Grave crimes (ch. 20)
E. Rules for priests (ch. 21)
F. Rules for eating sacrifices (ch. 22)
G. Festivals (ch.23)
H. Rules for the tabernacle (ch. 24:1–9)
I. Blasphemy (ch. 24:10–23)
J. Sabbatical and Jubilee years (ch. 25)
K. Exhortation to obey the law: blessing and curse (ch. 26)
VI. Redemption of votive gifts (ch. 27)
Deuteronomy -
Moral Law reiterated
5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
11 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work:
14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ***, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
16 Honor thy father and thy mother, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
17 Thou shalt not kill.
18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
19 Neither shalt thou steal.
20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbor.
Ritual Law
The worship of Canaanite gods is forbidden and the order is given to destroy their places of worship. (12:29–31)
Native mourning practices such as deliberate disfigurement are forbidden. (14:1–2)
The worship at Asherah groves and setting up of ritual pillars are forbidden. (16:21–22)
All sacrifices are to be brought and vows are to be made at a central sanctuary. (12:1–28)
Sacrificed animals must be without blemish. (15:21, 17:1)
First-born male livestock must be sacrificed. (15:19–23)
The procedure for tithing produce or donating its equivalent is given. (14:22–29)
The Pilgrimage Festivals of Passover, Shavuot, and Sukkot are instituted. (16:1–17)
A catalog of which animals are permitted and which forbidden for consumption is given. (14:3–20)
The consumption of animals which are found dead and have not been slaughtered is prohibited. (14:21)
Laws concerning officials[edit]
Judges are to be appointed in every city. (16:18)
Judges are to be impartial and bribery is forbidden. (16:19–20)
A central tribunal is established. (17:8–13)
Should the Israelites choose to be ruled by a King, regulations for the office are given. (17:14–20)
Regulations of the rights, and revenue, of the Levites are given. (18:1–8)
Concerning the future (unspecified) prophet. (18:9–22)
Regulations for the priesthood are given. (23:1–8)
Civil law
Debts are to be released in the seventh year. (15:1–11)
Regulations of the institution of slavery and the procedure for freeing slaves. (15:12–18)
Regulations permitting taking slaves and plunder in war (20:14)
Regulations for the treatment of sex-slaves taken in war (21:10-14)
Lost property, once found, is to be restored to its owner. (22:1–4)
Prohibition of mixing kinds, at Deuteronomy 22:9-11
Tzitzit are mandated. (22:12)
Marriages between women and their stepsons are forbidden. (22:30)
The camp is to be kept clean. (23:9–14)
Usury is forbidden except for foreigners. (23:19–20)
Regulations for vows and pledges are given. (23:21–23, 24:6, 24:10–13)
The procedure for tzaraath (a disfigurative condition) is given. (24:8–9)
Hired workers are to be paid fairly. (24:14–15)
Justice is to be shown towards strangers, widows, and orphans. (24:17–18)
Portions of crops are to be given to the poor. (24:19–22)
Criminal law
The rules for witnesses are given. (19:15–21)
The procedure for a bride who has been slandered is given. (22:13–21)
Various laws concerning adultery and rape are given. (22:22–29)
Kidnapping is forbidden. (24:7)
Just weights and measures are mandated. (25:13–16)
theophilus
Well-known member
There is no law stating a victim has to marry her attacker.
The laws given to protect and preserve Israel were given by God because He LOVED them and was jealaous for His own.
glassjester
Well-known member
Yes.
If someone purposely sought out sexual relations with a woman who'd had a hysterectomy, specifically to avoid conception, then yes - that would be immoral. Surely, you'd agree.
Can you imagine how a woman might feel to find out her husband had been looking for an infertile woman, specifically? She would feel used, wouldn't she?
Yet, if a man or woman is infertile, through no fault of their own, and engages in sexual activity with their spouse - I don't see how any immoral act has taken place.
The act they have engaged in is not intrinsically opposed to conception, is it?
In other words - is that action, by its very nature, not how babies are made?
commonsense
Active member
God thank you for not making me born catholic....
ClimateSanity
New member
He must take care of her the rest of her life regardless of what he wants. This was to protect the woman. It wasn't 21st century America with its attendant ideas of romance.
glassjester
Well-known member
I see I've helped feed your superiority complex. :e4e:
commonsense
Active member
No but you have awoken feelings of empathy and yes....dare I say...pity.
commonsense
Active member
It must really be constricting, to every time you have sex with your wife/husband, to examine your motives, reasons, fertility, what the pope said last week etc...
Exactly
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Finally.
Now back to this:
Your 'standard' has nothing to do with procreation. It is just about who is gay and who is straight and your desire to justify your own prejudice.
If your standard were about producing babies than it would apply to everyone and a heterosexual couple where she has had a hysterectomy wouldn't be a marriage they would just be - to use your words:
ClimateSanity
New member
It says nothing about the woman. It only speaks of his obligation. She is free not to marry him .
theophilus
Well-known member
theophilus
Well-known member
See post #108.
He HAS to marry her. He defiled/humbled her, she's his. He HAS to pay the father the bride/dowry price.
This is really the only protection for OT women.
theophilus
Well-known member
Call them whatever...they're still laws.
ClimateSanity
New member
He is looking at it through modern glasses . There has been 4000 years of cultural change especially regarding women since that was written. He cannot see that this law was seen as a life saver for women. Women had no protection in ancient times. This was the greatest thing she could actually hope for. Today, we put a premium on romance and freedom to marry whom you wish . Such things were unheard of back then.