How the Gospel Refutes All Religions and Reconciles Us to God

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The capacity to believe God? Absolutely. Romans ch 1 shows it.

Again I disagree. If the faith to be saved itself is a gift from God, that means no one can believe what God says to believe unless and until He gifts them to do it, right?

But if that's so, then the opposite is automatically true: those who do not believe are unbelievers only because God did not gift them with faith to believe.

Yet, according to the Bible, He still condemns them for their unbelief just as if they chose not to believe. Doing that would make Him a liar and an unjust, corrupt judge -- saying He's condemning people for their choice of unbelief when in reality they can't believe because faith is a gift that He didn't give them.

Romans 1 demonstrates the capacity to believe is corrupted due to the effects of the fall of Adam. The effects of the fall pervade the entire person rendering him unable to do what he ought to do (Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14).

It is quite true no person can believe if and until God grants them what He commands of them.

The opposite is also true. Unbelievers do not believe because they are not so granted by God. See Romans 1.

It is also true that God condemns the unbeliever for their wrong choices, for they have exchanged the truths they know for a lie. See Romans 1.

Denial or miunderstanding of exactly what the effects of the Fall of Adam were upon all creation lies at the root of many errors. All are born sinners. All are not born morally neutral and become sinners by sinning. Rather, all are born sinners and sin because they are sinners. For all sinned in Adam just as if he or she was there in the Garden with Adam. This is but one message of Romans 1.

No one before their re-birth knows the secret will of God regarding their eternal destiny. Yet all know their duty, to call upon the name of the Lord and be saved. Obviously, persons are being re-born daily. Those that do not have not been given the efficacious (saving) grace of God. Rather, God has left them in their state of continuous rebellion with every breath they take. Not all are owed mercy, only justice. That God has marked out a great amount no man can number to save from an entire fallen mass of humanity should drive us to our knees in awe of the wonders of His mercy.

The problem some have with that fact is that they wrongly assume that since a great number of persons are re-born then they somehow possessed the natural ability to choose wisely—without any work of God in regenerating them beforehand. These persons reason backwards, from within themselves as captains of their own destinies, robbing God of His glory, making Him a debtor to their "free will" choice.

Fortunately, not a few will come to realize that their efforts contributed nothing—no wise choices from "free will", actions, thoughts—to their re-birth and give all the glory to God (Romans 9:16). They will realize that unless God does something directly upon man, no man can call upon His name and be saved. No one is seeking God (Romans 1). And God is not hiding (Romans 1). God is the One that replaced their hearts of stone (Eze. 36:26), and God is the One that instantaneously granted the very faith they now cling to (Philippians 1:29).

One's instantaneous re-birth is wholly monergistic, God's work alone.

AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

AMR.

It is not possible to believe and have faith in the God of Cavinism.

Your God is a mean, cruel, unjust tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

He is not the God of the Bible That... "So loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son" John 3:16 You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to blasphemy him with your Calvinist doctrine.

 

[Robert Pate]

You not a lot of things, especially teaching the lie that Salvation is an offer !

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be as crimson, they shall be as wool. If you be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land. But if you refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it." Isaiah 1:18-20.

 

[beloved57]

Check the grammar in the above sound bite. I suspect "not" was an error for "know".

AMR

You are as arminian as pate is, teaching salvation is offered ! Salvation is promised to the Elect of isa 45:17,25

 

[beloved57]

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be as crimson, they shall be as wool. If you be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land. But if you refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it." Isaiah 1:18-20.

Salvation is not offered, it's promised to a certain people Israel Isaiah 45:17,25

 

[beloved57]

Faith is a natural human attribute that we are all born with. Did you not have faith in your parents when you were a small child.

Faith is activated when we hear and believe the Gospel, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Unfortunately not everyone wants it. They love their sins more than they love Christ.

False statement, Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, and the natural man can't please God Rom 8:8!

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

AMR.

It is not possible to believe and have faith in the God of Cavinism.

Your God is a mean, cruel, unjust tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

He is not the God of the Bible That... "So loves the world that he gives his only begotten Son" John 3:16 You might be better off to believe in no God at all than to blasphemy him with your Calvinist doctrine.

Carry on, Robert.

You have no credibility after laying the claim to be "engaging" in discussion and then retreating back to your usual opinions only.
Beware the man who has nothing to say and regularly gives ample evidence of it.

AMR

 

[musterion]

Romans 1 demonstrates the capacity to believe is corrupted due to the effects of the fall of Adam.

No it doesn't. What they chose to worship was corrupted because of darkened minds, but they still believed very firmly that beasts, images of men, etc, were, in some sense, God, after becoming thankless and snubbing Him. So Romans 1 shows that our innate capacity and drive to seek after and believe in a god was still there the whole time. Still is. It's what we often do with it that's the problem.

Hence commands to repent from idols. Would be stupid to command that of those who can't believe the truth! That's why refusal to do so is the cause for condemnation, Paul said, not any hypothetical inability to believe what God revealed.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Romans 1 demonstrates the capacity to believe is corrupted due to the effects of the fall of Adam........

No it doesn't.......

Heretic #1 vs. Heretic #2
What a horse race

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Capacity versus Ability

Capacity versus Ability

So Romans 1 shows that our innate capacity and drive to seek after and believe in a god was still there the whole time. Still is.

Capacity and ability are not the same. The capacity to seek the good comes from the original creation of man in an upright state in the image of God. In his fallen state man's capacity is wholly debilitated by the corruption of the fall, hence inability. Original man was created with the capacity and the accompanying ability to live forever. After the fall, this obviously has changed.

The invalid who cannot walk possesses the capacity to walk, as does all mankind, yet the ability to do so is removed due to the nature of the invalid's condition. Until a miracle occurs (Acts 3:6), the invalid remains in their state of immobility via his legs. Just so for the unregenerate. Until God first does a work (Eze. 36:26), no one possesses the moral ability to seek the good. The unbeliever is not morally wounded, but actually morally dead, in need of spiritual resurrection via the power of God the Holy Spirit. This is the consequence of Adam's sin, our sin.

We are doubly sinners; by imputation and transmission of the guilt. The sin and guilt of Adam's sin is imputed to his posterity.

We all are constituted sinners by Adam's act of disobedience. It's not that we share in Adam's substance and that our individual being is a subdivision of Adam's substance so that we sinned "with Adam" because we have "a bit of Adam" in each of us. More simply, when God creates a soul, the guilt and sin of Adam is imputed to the person. Imputation goes along with a Creationist view of the soul.

The imputation of Adam's Sin is immediate—God imputes the sin and guilt of Adam's sin to every soul created. Unlike some mediate view, God does not wait until we commit sin and then impute the guilt of sin upon us after we sin, rather we are born in sin and bear the guilt of Adam's sin. This is based upon the fact that there is a comparison of the guilt of Adam's Sin with the righteousness we have in Christ. The symmetry of Adam and Christ in Romans 5 is important. If we believe that a person is not actually guilty and corrupt until they sin then it would erroneously correspond to a view of Christ's righteousness that would require some mediate action on the part of the person responding to the Gospel. I will explain this further in what follows.

Romans 5:12
" Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—"

Note the order which Paul keeps here, for Paul says, that sin preceded, and that from sin death followed. There are indeed some who will argue that we are so lost through Adam’s sin, as though we perished through no fault of our own, but only, because Adam had sinned for us.

But Paul distinctly affirms that sin extends to all who suffer its punishment. And this Paul afterwards more fully declares, when subsequently he assigns a reason why all the posterity of Adam are subject to the dominion of death—because we have all, Paul says, sinned. But to sin in this case, is to become corrupt and vicious, for the natural depravity which we bring, from our mother’s womb, though it brings not forth immediately its own fruits, is yet sin before God, and deserves His vengeance. This natural depravity is that sin which is know as original sin.

Just as Adam at his creation had received for us as well as for himself the gifts of God’s favor, so by falling away from the Lord, Adam in himself corrupted, vitiated, depraved, and ruined our nature. Having been divested of God’s likeness, the marring of the morally good nature, Adam could not have generated progeny other than what was then like himself. Hence we have all sinned; for we are all imbued with natural corruption, and so are become sinful and wicked.

It is error to attempt to gloss, as do Pelagian leaning sorts, to elude the words of Paul to mean that sin descended by imitation—that is, we sin and are therefore become sinners—from Adam to the whole human race. This would necessarily imply that Our Lord, the Second Adam, would in this case become only the exemplar and not the cause of righteousness. After all, to take Paul's discussion of the First and Second Adams in Romans 5 to mean we are not sinners until we sin—possessing now, sin, what we did not possess beforehand—then it would follow that we must actually possess the righteousness of Christ in order to be counted as righteous. Clearly this is contrary to Paul's teachings.

Thus, we may easily conclude that Paul speaks not of actual sin, for if everyone for himself contracted guilt, why did Paul form a comparison between Adam and Christ? It then follows that our innate and hereditary depravity is what is here referred to by Paul in Romans 5:12.

Worth a read:
http://www.amazon.com/Imputation-Adams-Sin-John-Murray/dp/0875523412

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Heretic #1 vs. Heretic #2
What a horse race

Step off the treadmill.

Romanists. Always trying to inject themselves into a discussion between true catholics. Sigh.

Beam. Eye. Remove it.

AMR

 

[Angel4Truth]

The capacity to believe God? Absolutely. Romans ch 1 shows it.




Again I disagree. If the faith to be saved itself is a gift from God, that means no one can believe what God says to believe unless and until He gifts them to do it, right?

But if that's so, then the opposite is automatically true: those who do not believe are unbelievers only because God did not gift them with faith to believe.

Correct, but unlike Calvinists, i believe we are all gifted with faith to believe, but all will not use it because they love their sin more.

John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself."

Yet, according to the Bible, He still condemns them for their unbelief just as if they chose not to believe. Doing that would make Him a liar and an unjust, corrupt judge -- saying He's condemning people for their choice of unbelief when in reality they can't believe because faith is a gift that He didn't give them.

yes, because they loved their sin more, even knowing the truth because God granted all a measure of faith, which is why there will be no excuse.

I would like to know where some people are getting that its there from birth, if its there from birth why does some believe in an age of accountability?

Do you believe the Spirit is not who convicted you of sin when you heard the gospel? Or do you believe you did that yourself?

 

[Robert Pate]

Carry on, Robert.

You have no credibility after laying the claim to be "engaging" in discussion and then retreating back to your usual opinions only.
Beware the man who has nothing to say and regularly gives ample evidence of it.

AMR

Religious people such as yourself, enjoy long wordy arguments that are usually smoke screens.

If you can't say it in under 100 words, don't say it.

The Gospel is a very plain simple message, you want to confuse it.

 

[beloved57]

Religious people such as yourself, enjoy long wordy arguments that are usually smoke screens.

If you can't say it in under 100 words, don't say it.

The Gospel is a very plain simple message, you want to confuse it.

Then why do you believe sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways?

 

[Robert Pate]

Then why do you believe sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways?

If anyone dies in their sins it will be because like you they have rejected the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

 

[beloved57]

If anyone dies in their sins it will be because like you they have rejected the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

You make the Cross of Christ of non effect, teaching that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways!

 

[Robert Pate]

You make the Cross of Christ of non effect, teaching that sinners Christ died for are going to perish in their sins anyways!

In the judgment you will be found in your sins, you don't believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world.

Therefore, Jesus is NOT your Lord.

 

[beloved57]

In the judgment you will be found in your sins, you don't believe that Jesus atoned for the sins of the world.

Therefore, Jesus is NOT your Lord.

What kind of gospel you believe that makes the Cross of Christ of non effect ?

 

[Robert Pate]

What kind of gospel you believe that makes the Cross of Christ of non effect ?

You must receive and believe what Christ has done for you or you will perish, John 1:12.

 

[Lilstu]

Religious people such as yourself, enjoy long wordy arguments that are usually smoke screens.

If you can't say it in under 100 words, don't say it.

The Gospel is a very plain simple message, you want to confuse it.

Yes...you are so right.
Long wordy arguments ARE usually smoke screens.