beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies in unbelief Rom 5:10!
How the Gospel Refutes All Religions and Reconciles Us to God
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies in unbelief Rom 5:10!
beloved57
Well-known member
You don't believe the Gospel, you don't believe that Christ is the Saviour of the World, you believe sinners He died for wind up lost in their sins anyways.
beloved57
Well-known member
Arm
Salvation is not a offer! The salvation of God's people is promised to be done Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
To say that salvation is a offer is unbiblical!
Salvation is not a offer! The salvation of God's people is promised to be done Isa 45:17
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
To say that salvation is a offer is unbiblical!
musterion
Well-known member
C&V on that?
I just said the same, however you keep missing that God even provides the faith for us to use. We do not do that on our own.
That sounds like you believe all men have been saved. Thats false. All men will not be saved.
Faith is a natural human attribute that we are all born with. Did you not have faith in your parents when you were a small child.
Faith is activated when we hear and believe the Gospel, "So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (which is the Gospel) Romans 10:17.
Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. Unfortunately not everyone wants it. They love their sins more than they love Christ.
Of course salvation is an offer. Only those who love God and his Son Jesus Christ will accept the offer and will be saved.
You want to believe that God imposes salvation on whore mongers, God haters, Christ rejectors, the disobedient, liars, the lawless, homosexuals, murderers, etc. 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.
The word "world" means each and every person. If God did not provide salvation for everyone then he would be unjust. Hebrews 2:9 says that he has.
If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is not Lord.
You try to explain away 1 John 2:2, but it cannot be denied, and then you try to use other scriptures to refute what John has said, a typical Calvinist tactic.
A universalist believes that all will be saved regardless of what they believe. I do not teach that.
Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15. Because of the victorious work of Christ, God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.
If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then Jesus is not Lord and should be removed from his position at the right hand of God, Hebrews 1:3.
If you do not believe that Jesus is Lord you will die in your sins, John 8:24.
Ask Mr. Religion
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Beloved57's Hyper-Calvinism
Beloved57's Hyper-Calvinism
I am not a hyper-Calvinist.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?115439-Eternal-Security-!&p=4643308&viewfull=1#post4643308
The heart of hyper-Calvinism is a rejection of so-called "duty faith" and "duty repentance." In other words, that it is the solemn duty and obligation of all who hear the gospel to repent and believe. Hyper-Calvinism concludes that because men are lost in sin and are unable of themselves to repent and believe, it is a mistake to command them to do so. Such a command would imply that they are able to repent and believe.
The hyper-Calvinist makes the same mistake as the Arminians and free-willists, only the hyper-Calvinist draws a different conclusion. Both think that to command or demand repentance and faith of dead sinners must imply that such sinners are not dead and have in themselves the ability to repent and believe. The free-willist says, then: "To command must imply ability, therefore, men have the ability." The hyper-Calvinist says: "To command must imply ability, therefore we will not command any but the elect."
This means that while a true hyper-Calvinist will preach the "facts" of the gospel to all who will hear (and insist that he is preaching the gospel), he will not command a "mixed" audience to repent and believe. Those commands, he thinks, should be preached only to those who show evidence of being "sensible sinners," that is, sinners who have come under conviction by the work of the Holy Spirit.
We orthodox Calvinists reject these notions for various reasons. First, it is difficult to imagine how anyone, without divine inspiration, can ever be sure that he is preaching only to "sensible sinners" in order confidently to bring the command of the gospel. In reality, therefore, the command of the gospel will seldom, if ever, be heard in hyper-Calvinist preaching.
Second, hyper-Calvinism turns the command to repent and believe into a command to continue to repent and believe or to persevere in repenting and believing. So-called "sensible sinners," the only ones who may be called to repent and believe are those who have already begun to do so by the secret operations of the Holy Spirit. The faith called for, in that case, is not saving faith in the truest and deepest sense of the word, i.e., faith that brings a person into communion with Christ, justifies him and gives him salvation, but only faith as it continues to manifest itself in its fruits of assurance and hope.
It is in this connection that true hyper-Calvinists usually teach that person is justified completely in eternity (eternal justification) and that justification by faith involves only the assurance of justification. Thus the faith called for in the gospel does not in fact justify us before God, but only assures of a justification that has already taken place.
It is in this connection also that hyper-Calvinists are also accused, and rightly so, of a certain Antinomianism (anti-lawism or anti-commandism) regarding faith. They do not take seriously the command to repent and believe, exactly because the call to faith is for them only the call to be assured of one's faith. It is on these grounds that we orthodox Calvinists emphatically repudiate hyper-Calvinism.
:AMR:
AMR
Beloved57's Hyper-Calvinism
It is "AMR".
I am not a hyper-Calvinist.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?115439-Eternal-Security-!&p=4643308&viewfull=1#post4643308
The heart of hyper-Calvinism is a rejection of so-called "duty faith" and "duty repentance." In other words, that it is the solemn duty and obligation of all who hear the gospel to repent and believe. Hyper-Calvinism concludes that because men are lost in sin and are unable of themselves to repent and believe, it is a mistake to command them to do so. Such a command would imply that they are able to repent and believe.
The hyper-Calvinist makes the same mistake as the Arminians and free-willists, only the hyper-Calvinist draws a different conclusion. Both think that to command or demand repentance and faith of dead sinners must imply that such sinners are not dead and have in themselves the ability to repent and believe. The free-willist says, then: "To command must imply ability, therefore, men have the ability." The hyper-Calvinist says: "To command must imply ability, therefore we will not command any but the elect."
This means that while a true hyper-Calvinist will preach the "facts" of the gospel to all who will hear (and insist that he is preaching the gospel), he will not command a "mixed" audience to repent and believe. Those commands, he thinks, should be preached only to those who show evidence of being "sensible sinners," that is, sinners who have come under conviction by the work of the Holy Spirit.
We orthodox Calvinists reject these notions for various reasons. First, it is difficult to imagine how anyone, without divine inspiration, can ever be sure that he is preaching only to "sensible sinners" in order confidently to bring the command of the gospel. In reality, therefore, the command of the gospel will seldom, if ever, be heard in hyper-Calvinist preaching.
Second, hyper-Calvinism turns the command to repent and believe into a command to continue to repent and believe or to persevere in repenting and believing. So-called "sensible sinners," the only ones who may be called to repent and believe are those who have already begun to do so by the secret operations of the Holy Spirit. The faith called for, in that case, is not saving faith in the truest and deepest sense of the word, i.e., faith that brings a person into communion with Christ, justifies him and gives him salvation, but only faith as it continues to manifest itself in its fruits of assurance and hope.
It is in this connection that true hyper-Calvinists usually teach that person is justified completely in eternity (eternal justification) and that justification by faith involves only the assurance of justification. Thus the faith called for in the gospel does not in fact justify us before God, but only assures of a justification that has already taken place.
It is in this connection also that hyper-Calvinists are also accused, and rightly so, of a certain Antinomianism (anti-lawism or anti-commandism) regarding faith. They do not take seriously the command to repent and believe, exactly because the call to faith is for them only the call to be assured of one's faith. It is on these grounds that we orthodox Calvinists emphatically repudiate hyper-Calvinism.
:AMR:
AMR
Last edited:
Ask Mr. Religion
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Robert Pate Is Outside the Camp
Robert Pate Is Outside the Camp
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4826175&viewfull=1#post4826175
As the link above demonstrates, you cannot substantiate the claim in the clear face of Scripture. Your view is actually embarrassing and you should know this.
The whole counsel of Scripture is to be used, versus your cherry-picking of a verse here and there and then trying to create an entire doctrine around it. Your view is clearly contradicted by all of Scripture, and it obviously annoys you. This also accounts for your cavalier method of waving off whole books of Scripture when their content opposes your odd views. That should be a clue you are not using the proper methods of interpreting Scripture.
Given how many heterodox views you hold, holding yourself forth as a man who deems to declare anything about what God has to say in Scripture with presumed authority, is something all believers should be wary about.
You are a dangerous man, Robert, when it comes to "thus sayeth the Lord". Examine yourself carefully. Be more circumspect when the situation warrants. Submit yourself to a local vestige of Our Lord's Bride for instruction by the community of the saints, to have access to the ordinary means of grace in word and sacrament, and for discipline. Your Lone Ranger status is outside the teachings of Scripture.
AMR
Robert Pate Is Outside the Camp
No, it does not.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...e-God-Unjust&p=4826175&viewfull=1#post4826175
As the link above demonstrates, you cannot substantiate the claim in the clear face of Scripture. Your view is actually embarrassing and you should know this.
You are free to offer up something more substantive to my response other than the usual opinion. For now, my response stands unanswered by you. Robert, my "using other Scriptures" is but one of the proper means of interpreting Scripture.
The whole counsel of Scripture is to be used, versus your cherry-picking of a verse here and there and then trying to create an entire doctrine around it. Your view is clearly contradicted by all of Scripture, and it obviously annoys you. This also accounts for your cavalier method of waving off whole books of Scripture when their content opposes your odd views. That should be a clue you are not using the proper methods of interpreting Scripture.
Given how many heterodox views you hold, holding yourself forth as a man who deems to declare anything about what God has to say in Scripture with presumed authority, is something all believers should be wary about.
You are a dangerous man, Robert, when it comes to "thus sayeth the Lord". Examine yourself carefully. Be more circumspect when the situation warrants. Submit yourself to a local vestige of Our Lord's Bride for instruction by the community of the saints, to have access to the ordinary means of grace in word and sacrament, and for discipline. Your Lone Ranger status is outside the teachings of Scripture.
Denial of what you say does not erase what you have said. If, per your own words, the sins of each and every person have been atoned for by Our Lord, then each and every person will be saved. Our Lord's atonement was an actual atonement, not a potential atonement, else, using your own words, He is not really Lord, but only a proxy for the so-called free will of man. :AMR:
AMR
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beloved57
Well-known member
Salvation has never been an offer, thats man made junk. Salvation is Promised to Gods elect Isa 45:17 as is Eternal Life Titus 1:2
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
beloved57
Well-known member
It is "AMR".
I am not a hyper-Calvinist.
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?115439-Eternal-Security-!&p=4643308&viewfull=1#post4643308
The heart of hyper-Calvinism is a rejection of so-called "duty faith" and "duty repentance." In other words, that it is the solemn duty and obligation of all who hear the gospel to repent and believe. Hyper-Calvinism concludes that because men are lost in sin and are unable of themselves to repent and believe, it is a mistake to command them to do so. Such a command would imply that they are able to repent and believe.
The hyper-Calvinist makes the same mistake as the Arminians and free-willists, only the hyper-Calvinist draws a different conclusion. Both think that to command or demand repentance and faith of dead sinners must imply that such sinners are not dead and have in themselves the ability to repent and believe. The free-willist says, then: "To command must imply ability, therefore, men have the ability." The hyper-Calvinist says: "To command must imply ability, therefore we will not command any but the elect."
This means that while a true hyper-Calvinist will preach the "facts" of the gospel to all who will hear (and insist that he is preaching the gospel), he will not command a "mixed" audience to repent and believe. Those commands, he thinks, should be preached only to those who show evidence of being "sensible sinners," that is, sinners who have come under conviction by the work of the Holy Spirit.
We orthodox Calvinists reject these notions for various reasons. First, it is difficult to imagine how anyone, without divine inspiration, can ever be sure that he is preaching only to "sensible sinners" in order confidently to bring the command of the gospel. In reality, therefore, the command of the gospel will seldom, if ever, be heard in hyper-Calvinist preaching.
Second, hyper-Calvinism turns the command to repent and believe into a command to continue to repent and believe or to persevere in repenting and believing. So-called "sensible sinners," the only ones who may be called to repent and believe are those who have already begun to do so by the secret operations of the Holy Spirit. The faith called for, in that case, is not saving faith in the truest and deepest sense of the word, i.e., faith that brings a person into communion with Christ, justifies him and gives him salvation, but only faith as it continues to manifest itself in its fruits of assurance and hope.
It is in this connection that true hyper-Calvinists usually teach that person is justified completely in eternity (eternal justification) and that justification by faith involves only the assurance of justification. Thus the faith called for in the gospel does not in fact justify us before God, but only assures of a justification that has already taken place.
It is in this connection also that hyper-Calvinists are also accused, and rightly so, of a certain Antinomianism (anti-lawism or anti-commandism) regarding faith. They do not take seriously the command to repent and believe, exactly because the call to faith is for them only the call to be assured of one's faith. It is on these grounds that we orthodox Calvinists emphatically repudiate hyper-Calvinism.
:AMR:
AMR
You not a lot of things, especially teaching the lie that Salvation is an offer !
Ask Mr. Religion
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Check the grammar in the above sound bite. I suspect "not" was an error for "know".
AMR
False.
Romans 12:3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
Where does that state we are born with it?
musterion
Well-known member
Context there, imo, is believers.
The fact that God requires it of all who hear the Gospel, and condemns those who still WON'T believe, is evidence enough.
I am dangerous to your Calvinist doctrine because I know and understand the Gospel completely.
Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and God has made him both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.
1 John 2:2 is a true and accurate scripture, so is John 12:47 and many other scriptures that tell us Jesus is the savior of the world.
You hate these scriptures and try to use other scriptures to refute them, but they cannot be refuted.
The foundation of the Gospel is that Jesus is the savior of the world. You are messing with the Gospel of Jesus Christ when you try to change that and are jeopardizing your salvation.
Foolish, foolish, foolish, Calvinist.
So you believe we are born with it also? I believe its a gift from God given when we are drawn by the Spirit.
musterion
Well-known member
The capacity to believe God? Absolutely. Romans ch 1 shows it.
Again I disagree. If the faith to be saved itself is a gift from God, that means no one can believe what God says to believe unless and until He gifts them to do it, right?
But if that's so, then the opposite is automatically true: those who do not believe are unbelievers only because God did not gift them with faith to believe.
Yet, according to the Bible, He still condemns them for their unbelief just as if they chose not to believe. Doing that would make Him a liar and an unjust, corrupt judge -- saying He's condemning people for their choice of unbelief when in reality they can't believe because faith is a gift that He didn't give them.