How is it that the evolutionists . . .

6days

6days

New member
CherubRam said:
The Sun already existed after the creation of the universe, but Elohiym [Yahwah] caused the light to appear.
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No... Read Genesis 1
3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

CherubRam said:
The creation account called "day" is an epoch of time.
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Nope... God could have used words telling us it was epochs of time but instead used words clearly defining a normal day. "And there was evening, and there was morning— the first day." For emphasis.... God kept repeating the phrase on each creation day. The Hebrew context allows no wriggle room... God created in six normal days.

CherubRam said:
Dark matter existed primordially when Yahwah came into being.
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Psuedoscience and heretical.


CherubRam said:
Gravity that God created caused the dark matter to form atoms, and cause the dark matter to differentiate into different elements. Michael.
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Ex. 20:11 "1 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
 
Caino

Caino

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CherubRam said:
After the creation of the universe this world existed as a formless body of water. The "terraforma" was "void," "was not." The Sun already existed after the creation of the universe, but Elohiym [Yahwah] caused the light to appear. The creation account called "day" is an epoch of time. Dark matter existed primordially when Yahwah came into being. Gravity that God created caused the dark matter to form atoms, and cause the dark matter to differentiate into different elements. Michael.
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The Sun is roughly 5 billion years old, the solar system had its origin in the Sun which is how we determine the age of our oldest rocks. Life began roughly 550,000,000 years ago evolving into will concious man roughly 1,000,000 years ago. Genesis was written, redacted, edited and rewritten in Babylon about 2,600 years ago by priest who knew nothing of science and NEVER claimed to be writing for God. Church politicians invented that idea.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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6days said:
No... Read Genesis 1
3And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.


Nope... God could have used words telling us it was epochs of time but instead used words clearly defining a normal day. "And there was evening, and there was morning— the first day." For emphasis.... God kept repeating the phrase on each creation day. The Hebrew context allows no wriggle room... God created in six normal days.

Psuedoscience and heretical.



Ex. 20:11 "1 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
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You can not be "First" without a beginning.

Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

After eating the forbidden fruit Adam continued to live for hundreds of years until he finally died. Day is used for epoch of time in parables.

KJV
Isaiah 41:4
Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I (the Lord / Yahwah,) the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith (the Lord / Yahwah) the King of Israel, and his redeemer (the Lord / Yahwah) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12
Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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Yahwah, whose name means "Life began." He is the Beginning of Life. He is the Alpha, He is the Beginning, He is the First.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

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Atheist: why do we have them here? They have FAITH in what they BELIEVE, so therefore they are Anti-God and Anti-Christ. Their goal is to lead people away from God and Christ. How is that constructive for our faith?
 
6days

6days

New member
CherubRam said:
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

After eating the forbidden fruit Adam continued to live for hundreds of years until he finally died.
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I think your point is that the word day in that sentence is not a literal day?
If that is your point... you are correct, in that the context allows that.
Adam did die spiritually immediately. He also began the process of physically dying as implied by the Hebrew 'dying you shall die'.

But... the context in Genesis 1 does not allow for long periods of time. In Hebrew (and evertime in the OT), when the word 'YOM' (day) is used with a number...it ALWAYS refers to a normal day like you and I experience.
Also, in Hebrew and everytime in the OT when the word YOM is used alongside a word like evening, or morning...it always refers to a normal day.

CherubRam said:
Day is used for epoch of time in parables.
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Its nonsense to suggest that the word 'day' can mean almost anything. It does have various meanings but always defined by context. Jonah was not in the belly of the fish for 3 epochs of time.
 
6days

6days

New member
CherubRam said:
Atheist: why do we have them here? They have FAITH in what they BELIEVE, so therefore they are Anti-God and Anti-Christ. Their goal is to lead people away from God and Christ. How is that constructive for our faith?
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It gives us an opportunity to share our faith with them.... and it challenges us to know and understand that we have a faith with answers. We believe in the true historical gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
6days said:
I think your point is that the word day in that sentence is not a literal day?
If that is your point... you are correct, in that the context allows that.
Adam did die spiritually immediately. He also began the process of physically dying as implied by the Hebrew 'dying you shall die'.

But... the context in Genesis 1 does not allow for long periods of time. In Hebrew (and evertime in the OT), when the word 'YOM' (day) is used with a number...it ALWAYS refers to a normal day like you and I experience.
Also, in Hebrew and everytime in the OT when the word YOM is used alongside a word like evening, or morning...it always refers to a normal day.


Its nonsense to suggest that the word 'day' can mean almost anything. It does have various meanings but always defined by context. Jonah was not in the belly of the fish for 3 epochs of time.
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6days,
you do great damage to your case and credibility by not comprehending day 4. Day 4 is when our sun was made. This means that the expression "there was evening and there was morning..." before this is poetic. Our solar system seems to have been made on the spot from tohu wa-bohu. (Notice the parallel to woman being created from one item of man). There was some kind of light there already (day 1), but not our solar system's sun. Because day 4 has the greater and lesser. All day 1 had was light vs absence of it.

This in turn is what allows for 'yom' to mean ages, because, as I just mentioned, "evening...and morning..." are meant in a poetic sense; a "day" had taken place.

We have to be consistent with the text.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
CherubRam said:
After the creation of the universe this world existed as a formless body of water. The "terraforma" was "void," "was not." The Sun already existed after the creation of the universe, but Elohiym [Yahwah] caused the light to appear. The creation account called "day" is an epoch of time. Dark matter existed primordially when Yahwah came into being. Gravity that God created caused the dark matter to form atoms, and cause the dark matter to differentiate into different elements. Michael.
Click to expand...



This is close to 'tohu wa-bohu' yes, but I'm not sure what the line "Dark matter existed..." is saying about the existence of Yahweh. The way it is written it sounds like Yahweh came into being. I don't think you meant that from anything else you said.
 
Jose Fly

Jose Fly

New member
Interplanner said:
Ambiguity? You mean accuracy. It makes it closer to all data than ever.
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I don't see how anyone can say that, since creationists can't even agree if the "Biblical model of creation" includes basic things like...

Populations evolving

Natural selection

Speciation

Plate tectonics

A moving earth

24-hour days, or epochs

The sun already existing on day 1, or being created on day 4


You'd think "The Word of God" would make such things pretty clear. :think:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
That would be the difference between people who are nervous that something awful will happen to the Bible vs what it actually says.

Here's a resource list for you to get closer to what it actually says:

Waltke. CREATION AND CHAOS. re the contrasts with ancient near east legend.
Wakefield. GOD'S BATTLE WITH THE SEA MONSTER. Many ancient near east legends feature a victory by god over a massive sea monster and out of that the human-friendly earth is formed. This has been found as far away as NW Washington native American tribes.
Ross. CREATION AND TIME. And reasonstobelieve.org. Ross was in Astrophysics for years at UCLA and now or later at U of Toronto.
Gonzales and ___. THE PRIVILEGED PLANET. Two astrophysicists who became Christians upon doing research on the 1996 solar eclipse while in India. Massive evidence against random celestial mechanics.
Cassuto (Rabbi). FROM ADAM TO MOSES. Invaluable textual notes on what Moses intended to show us.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
6days said:
I think your point is that the word day in that sentence is not a literal day?
If that is your point... you are correct, in that the context allows that.
Adam did die spiritually immediately. He also began the process of physically dying as implied by the Hebrew 'dying you shall die'.

But... the context in Genesis 1 does not allow for long periods of time. In Hebrew (and evertime in the OT), when the word 'YOM' (day) is used with a number...it ALWAYS refers to a normal day like you and I experience.
Also, in Hebrew and everytime in the OT when the word YOM is used alongside a word like evening, or morning...it always refers to a normal day.


Its nonsense to suggest that the word 'day' can mean almost anything. It does have various meanings but always defined by context. Jonah was not in the belly of the fish for 3 epochs of time.
Click to expand...

The story of Jonah is literal, and the word "day" is literal. Yom does not always mean a literal day. In Adam's "Yom" there was no white man, not until Noah was born.
 
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